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Spiritual but not religious

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Actually many people who belong to a church or a religion make the same claim that 'follow their own path and take their own journey '

Until there is a universal truth that stands up irrefutably I won't be attending any churches. I have had my fill of them.

Church is beautiful idea if there is an inspirational truth to speak of. I think otherwise it isn't so wonderful.

I can understand the desire to be in a sacred place.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
That's not true. I was a member of a UU church for about 3 years, and they certainly did have some different rituals among them.

I have been to many UU churches and no, there are no standardized rites nor ceremonies. I have seen just plain talks, music, and yes varied diverse ways of observing their beliefs in gatherings, from primal religions to sort of Buddhist observances. Nothing standardized which could be defined as rites as it is defined.


Some felt kinda 'empty', but that could have just been my own take on it. Many seemed to enjoy it. To each their own.

"To each his own," best defines UU. It is most common that they felt 'kinda 'empty' elsewhere is the reason why they are at UU.
 

JustGeorge

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I have been to many UU churches and no, there are no standardized rites nor ceremonies. I have seen just plain talks, music, and yes varied diverse ways of observing their beliefs in gatherings, from primal religions to sort of Buddhist observances. Nothing standardized which could be defined as rites as it is defined.




"To each his own," best defines UU. It is most common that they felt 'kinda 'empty' elsewhere is the reason why they are at UU.

It may have just been the one I was at, but I was on the Religious Services committee(it was as boring as it sounded), and I learned there were some very standard rituals to their services that were not to be tampered with, in the name of ritual.

I actually found "to each his own" wasn't the spirit of the place. That's what they told you to get you in the door. After that, it was "if you don't adopt our brand of religious disbelief and politics, we'll let you sign up on our chore roster, but don't expect to be friends".
 

idea

Question Everything
... SBNR allows me the freedom of questioning, honesty, awe, wonder, and divine pursuit whereas I can just be me, and I don't have to force fit anything into my ways. I can just be me.

But most of all SBNR allows me not to falsely condemn people. Redemption is for everybody that needs it. Redemption comes from getting what we deserve. And human judgment is not in position to judge anything more than actions, and future possibilities.

Love love love this, yes, where everyone can honestly be themselves. I think many religious communities claim to have togetherness and community, but members can feel isolated and alone because their true self is disconnected and silenced. I've had more meaningful connections with my children and others now that I have left organized religion - when no one is afraid any more that I will judge them for thinking one way or another. My youngest shocked me by telling my mom she wanted to get a tattoo for example - something I would have never asked for or talked about with my mom (even though I did get one haha). I flinched that my daughter felt comfortable openly talking about this, but then congratulated myself that it meant she was growing up in a new era, where everyone was allowed to be them self. I still catch myself with old habits, of trying to conform to various things and then realize I don't need to do any of that anymore. It is freedom.

For those who think of themselves as “spiritual”....what does that actually mean in real terms?

For me, it means I get goosebumps, warm fuzzies, feel divine presence in things like nature, music, and other people. This thing called conscience, self-awareness, spirit - call it what you will, but I do recognize some kind of inspiring force surrounding us all. No one is chosen, no hierarchy, everyone with something to teach and everyone with something to learn.

for a good many of those, it’s very much a pick and choose arrangement because they don’t support their denomination’s dogmas wholeheartedly. They will practice their religion but only the parts that they find acceptable....or they will uphold their religion’s actions even if it goes contrary to what the Bible teaches.

I had a talk with a past church leader where they confessed their disagreement in a racist policy of their church. They went along with it, just stayed quiet - and I just about yelled at them. I told them they needed to follow their conscience above all else, to never just follow the crowd like that, and act in something they knew was wrong. Devotion to a higher power is not devotion to a church.

When we (JW’s) engage in our door to door work, seeking to find individuals who are “spiritual” but not necessarily “religious”, we have those who tell us...”I have my own religion”.....and some really mean it. Their religion is their very own...a concoction of various beliefs gleaned from a variety of religious sources. A bit like “shopping” in “the great celestial supermarket” and they have filled their basket with what appeals to them.
But, is that OK with God? Or only OK with the individual ‘shoppers’, who are now happy to have their own ‘denomination’ or ‘label’? :shrug:

If there is a higher power, They created a diverse world. What currently exists is evidence of what is "ok" with any higher powers. If someone turned a research paper in, and only cited from one source, what grade would be given? Those who are honest take information from all available sources, combine it, and then make it their own. If there is a God - they would have to be 100% loving and just or they would not be worth worshiping. To rationalize a loving God, one has to rationalize all the different faiths. To me, religious groups can be a good support for initial explorations of spirituality, but when older, when problems arise, a more personal intimate journey starts. Like Santa - kids learn the joy of giving and getting when young, then a new understanding of Santa arises when older. Santa - a real person who once lived and died, whose spirit lives on within the hearts of those who take joy in giving anonymously.

If that is the case and the SBNR adherents have not chosen a definite position regarding how their spirituality will be exercised, or what god they actually believe in, where do you believe that leaves you? Is it something that even enters your consciousness?

I believe SBNR's value honesty, authenticity, deep research, love and appreciation for all. Enjoyment of life's puzzles, being ok with not knowing everything, enjoying what exists without worry of heaven or hell. There are many possible scenarios - if there is a loving God, then no worries as God is loving. if God is not loving, then I'm not interested in being with such a creature for eternity and do not view them as god. if there is nothing, then life is all the more precious, more reason to cherish each moment we have. I guess in the face of uncertainty, you make peace with all outcomes, and enjoy the mystery. It leaves me free - free to explore, free to think deeply, free to change opinions when new information is presented, and gives me the greatest amount of hope for all humanity, to find what unites all of us.

I am familiar with the work of Charles Russel by the way, and have dear family members - not JW, but study from the volumes. I know others who have left the JW faith, a difficult thing to do as they had to rebuild their entire community and support structure. Do you listen to those you talk to? do you really listen to who everyone really is?
 

idea

Question Everything
Sanathana Dharma = The Eternal Dharma is all about spirituality.

I do need to study Hinduism more. I was a vegetarian all through my teenage years (just never liked meat), and am slowly trying to get my family back in that direction. I have the The Bhagavad Gita, have read about the heavenly war (Christianity includes a war in heaven too) the heartache of seeing those you love on both sides of a battle line, and choosing to stand up for what you believe. I need to read that again, some very thoughtful dialogue.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Sai Baba started a religion with temples and all the trimmings others believe in.
Your opinion again.

Sai Baba declared Himself:
"I am not here to start another Religion ... there are plenty Religions already, just choose one you like"
"You can choose any Religion you like, as all Religions are Paths to God, never belittle other Religions"
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
I have the The Bhagavad Gita, have read about the heavenly war (Christianity includes a war in heaven too) the heartache of seeing those you love on both sides of a battle line, and choosing to stand up for what you believe. I need to read that again, some very thoughtful dialogue.
:)
Yes, indeed a very thoughtful dialogue. So much symbolism in it, and so many wise lessons. Many battles to fight. My number one lesson was to "stand up for what I believe", and not let others impose on me. And of course fighting my own inner foes: desire, anger, hate, jealousy, fear, sadness..
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Your opinion again.

Sai Baba declared Himself:
"I am not here to start another Religion ... there are plenty Religions already, just choose one you like"
"You can choose any Religion you like, as all Religions are Paths to God, never belittle other Religions"

A declaration that it is not a religion does not make it not a religion. There are temples, beliefs and rituals just like other religions.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Sai Baba started a religion

A declaration that it is not a religion does not make it not a religion. There are temples, beliefs and rituals just like other religions.
I said that you had it wrong that "Sai Baba started a religion". You can twist it anyway you like, but I stick to the facts. I am far more an expert when it comes to Sai Baba then you are, don't you think?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I said that you had it wrong that "Sai Baba started a religion". You can twist it anyway you like, but I stick to the facts. I am far more an expert when it comes to Sai Baba then you are, don't you think?

I said: A declaration that it is not a religion does not make it not a religion. There are temples, beliefs and rituals just like other religions.

It would be difficult to also belong to another religion when the beliefs and rituals of Sai Baba are in conflict with most other religions.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
I said: A declaration that it is not a religion does not make it not a religion
No you did NOT say that. You said in your own words (quote below):
Sai Baba started a religion
Which is plain wrong, as Sai Baba explicitly declared He did not start a new religion

People start Religions. Even you do it right now, trying even to fool me that Sai Baba started a Religion
The fact is that you are in this moment "starting the Religion of Sai Baba" by ignoring what he declared and filling it in for yourself

You are free to do that (that is how Teaching get messed up), but you are not free to state this as a fact on RF
You should say "Sai Baba started a Religion in my humble opinion" or something like that
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
No you did NOT say that. You said in your own words (quote below):

Which is plain wrong, as Sai Baba explicitly declared He did not start a new religion

People start Religions. Even you do it right now, trying even to fool me that Sai Baba started a Religion
The fact is that you are in this moment "starting the Religion of Sai Baba" by ignoring what he declared and filling it in for yourself

You are free to do that (that is how Teaching get messed up), but you are not free to state this as a fact on RF
You should say "Sai Baba started a Religion in my humble opinion" or something like that

Religion will always be a subjective and anecdotal claim whatever, and yes opinions, but by any definition available in the any dictionary what Sai Baba started is a religion.

Yes, Sai Baba started a religion with it's own temples, rites and beliefs. It would be difficult and contradictory to also belong to another religion when the beliefs and rituals of Sai Baba are in conflict with most other religions.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Is there a forum specifically for those who identify as SBNA?

"About a quarter of U.S. adults (27%) now say they think of themselves as spiritual but not religious" - More Americans now say they’re spiritual but not religious.

info: Spiritual but not religious - Wikipedia.

Does the forum exist and I just missed it? How many here identify as SBNA?
I identify as non-religious, practising tantra-yoga does not make one a member of a religion no matter how organized the path is.
On this forum everything is more or less centered on the idea of religion, you're either religious or an atheist here it seems.

Why is it that some paths or groups dislike self-referencing as religious?
I guess it has to do with this faulty idea that you're either inside or outside some religion, whereas a spiritual outlook is more that everyone* is on the same spiritual path or journey but not always moving at the same speed or indeed in the right direction.

* even other life forms than human ones (through constant clash and cohesion which has an automatic liberating effect on the individual consciousness)
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
Is there a forum specifically for those who identify as SBNA?

"About a quarter of U.S. adults (27%) now say they think of themselves as spiritual but not religious" - More Americans now say they’re spiritual but not religious.

info: Spiritual but not religious - Wikipedia.

Does the forum exist and I just missed it? How many here identify as SBNA?

Thanks!

I dont understand these forum matters you spoke of but I found it interesting this new identification. Interesting. Thanks.
 

idea

Question Everything
.... all Religions are Paths to God, never belittle other Religions"

A very beautiful sentiment, I believe similar sentiments exist in Buddhism.
quote-don-t-use-buddhism-to-become-a-buddhist-use-buddhism-to-become-better-at-whatever-else-dalai-lama-115-10-71.jpg
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
*** REMINDER ***

Interfaith Discussion is a discussion forum, NOT a debate forum. Please refrain from debating in this thread.
 
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