• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Statues

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I said, those that were no overtly treasonous, are open for debate, not an automatic get out of jail free pass. Were we to have a debate about Jackson, things like this would need to be considered: https://www.history.com/news/andrew-jackson-presidency-controversial-legacy

Records show he beat his enslaved workers, including doling out a brutal public whipping to a woman he felt had been “putting on airs.” And when any of them ran away, he pursued them and put them in chains when they were recovered. In an 1804 newspaper advertisement for a 30-year-old runaway named Tom, he offered an extra $10 for every 100 lashes doled out to the escapee.

As the United States expanded, the seventh president also opposed policies that would have outlawed slavery in western territories. And when abolitionists attempted to send anti-slavery tracts to the South during Jackson’s presidency, he helped ban their delivery and called the anti-slavery advocates monsters who should “atone for this wicked attempt with their lives.”

Despite Jackson’s support of slavery and participation in the slave trade, early biographers downplayed his pro-slavery stance, writes historian Mark R. Cheatham, who calls their reluctance to examine Jackson as a slave owner “surprising and disappointing.”
Let's put it this way, history will never forget the evil orange one in the office of presidency today, but does anyone really want a statue built to Trump? (Oh god, don't answer that. I just felt myself throw up a little. :) )
I'd prefer that no statues be erected to anyone, whether they be sinner or saint.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There is nothing wrong with celebrating special occasions in ones life with people you love. I celebrated my wedding with friends and family. We celebrate our wedding anniversary with friends and family on occasion as well. Not always mind you.
Then why are birthdays singled out as something to not do? As I said, I can't see any reason they lead to something bad, like narcissism. Is it because somewhere in history there is some tie in with pagan practices or something you feel is a negative spiritually? I don't see anything inherently wrong with the practice, and actually quite some good instead. It makes people feel good to be remembered as special, which is easy for us to forget at other times.

I don't see the point of making statues of anyone. No human is that special. You, me, or anyone else. I don't mind if they are there, I don't really pay attention. Sometimes I actually like to look at them and study their significance if I am in a foreign city or country and don't know the history behind it.
Statues and monuments are symbols of the values a society upholds. It's like building a cathedral, or flying a flag. They really aren't about that individual in all their warts and bad breath and such. They are 'larger than life' portrayals, which are intended to be an elevated image of a cultural ideal. This is why during a revolution, the symbols of the old guard are trashed and replaced with new ones of the new order.

You can think of them like Tony the Tiger on a box of cereal. The cereal tastes nothing like tiger meat (I suspect). It's about brand recognition. But instead of being about cereal, it's about values and beliefs. Do those symbols convey those values and beliefs? If so, they are doing their job. Place them in public squares. Everyone has them in common. "We are Americans", as the fireworks go off in the sky, celebrating and promoting a value system. Those too, are monuments in the sky, in a real sense.

In any event no one should be boasting or bragging about who they are. I like this scripture:

"For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?"-1 Corinthians 4:7.

We all have intelligence, and have talents, God-given talents. When someone gets puffed up with a talent of theirs, whatever it is, as if they were not given it, they not behaving correctly. It is always proper to give the praise where it is due. We all have our talents and what-not because they were given to us by God.
I agree with that. To glorify yourself, is the ego. And the ego is weak compared to power of humility and grace. But society building monuments, is about a "transcendent" version of that actual person. They become a "god" in the sense that they represent an entire ideal and hope or vision of the people themselves. It may express itself as idol-worship, which you can see easily in pop-culture with its superstars.

Prince had the proper attitude toward receiving praises and awards:

Yes, our beloved Prince. He was indeed a gifted soul. It's good he found some sense of grounding in all of his fame. When someone receives praise, to receive it humbly shows real power.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Let's not go there, even to make a hypothetical point.
It's a heinous crime which we shouldn't associate with fellow posters.

My assumption, Rev, is that you would never be associated with such a thing in any way. That was the whole point of such an extreme example.

I apologize if I touched a nerve in some way.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'd prefer that no statues be erected to anyone, whether they be sinner or saint.
I can't say I disagree with that. Maybe the Muslims were on to something only allowing geometric images to be used in art? These ancient tribal cultures maybe could see the problems with them, human nature being what it is and all.
 

Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
It all depends upon whom they honor.

I was thinking more like this

2001-a-space-odyssey-monolith.jpg
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
My assumption, Rev, is that you would never be associated with such a thing in any way. That was the whole point of such an extreme example.

I apologize if I touched a nerve in some way.
No need to apologize.
I understood your intent.
But it gave me the creeps.
Hence my suggestion.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I can't say I disagree with that. Maybe the Muslims were on to something only allowing geometric images to be used in art? These ancient tribal cultures maybe could see the problems with them, human nature being what it is and all.
Nah, Muslims are all about imposing such prohibitions.
I have only personal preferences.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Commie statues in the USA.
I'd also like to see those statues remain, with enhanced messages about the evils their politics wrought.
In the news...
Many Unhappy With Communist Statues Across The U.S.
Same goes for stars on Hollywood sidewalks.
Don't remove them....note which had done evil things, eg, advocating communism.
 
Last edited:

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Nah, Muslims are all about imposing such prohibitions.
I have only personal preferences.
I would argue that the artists who create, and those who control, are driven by different spirits. They try to say no art, and art finds a way anyway. Art will find a way. It always finds a way. :)
 

Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Commie statues in the USA.
I'd also like to see those statues remain, with enhanced messages about the evils their politics wrought.
In the news...
Many Unhappy With Communist Statues Across The U.S.
Same goes for stars on Hollywood sidewalks.
Don't remove them....note which had done evil things, eg, advocating communism.

You know, this made me realize.... I never saw a statue of George Washington in Beijing.......come to think of it...there is not one there of Chiang Kai-shek either....but then I have not seen a Statue of George Washington in Norway or Japan either....or for that matter Las Vegas.... so.....
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You know, this made me realize.... I never saw a statue of George Washington in Beijing.......come to think of it...there is not one there of Chiang Kai-shek either....but then I have not seen a Statue of George Washington in Norway or Japan either....or for that matter Las Vegas.... so.....
In China, did you go to the factory where these are made?
Statue-of-Liberty-souvenirs.jpg
 
Top