Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven'

[Levite]

So... in your mind, Heaven isn't a physical place or a testable proposition?

If so, then aren't you basically saying the same thing as Hawking?

No. I'm saying that Heaven is not a physical place within the universe (or multiverse), and therefore no one can say definitively whether it exists or not; but if anyone is likely to express an opinion with any kind of authority, it is likely to be a theologian or religious professional, since it is a theological or metaphysical postulation.

Hawking appears to be saying that Heaven is not any kind of place, and he can say definitively that it does not exist.

 

[outhouse]

It's rather telling when someone takes one quote from a genius and runs with it.

How so?


I knew this would be good debate material is all.

do you see something deeper??

 

[outhouse]

good morning Mike

How can we look for eternity, if God is the only thing that is eternal?

do we know god is the only thing eternal?

and ultimately points to God.

I honestly believe this is a matter of opinion

 

[Just_me_Mike]

good morning Mike



do we know god is the only thing eternal?




I honestly believe this is a matter of opinion

Of course it is opinion...
Point was, if I were God and wanted to be worshipped as the eternal being, why would I make anything else that is eternal? In fact, that would be the big finally for believing in me you get eternity too

 

[outhouse]

Of course it is opinion...
Point was, if I were God and wanted to be worshipped as the eternal being, why would I make anything else that is eternal? In fact, that would be the big finally for believing in me you get eternity too

I thought when we die if we are good enough we are allowed to move on through the gates of heaven to live on forever.

is that not what is promised to us, eternal life?

oh and god made us in his/our imagine.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I thought when we die if we are good enough we are allowed to move on through the gates of heaven to live on forever.

The bible teaches no such thing

Romas Ch 3
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

is that not what is promised to us, eternal life?

Why yes, yes it is...

oh and god made us in his/our imagine.

therefor?

 

[outhouse]

Heaven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Traditionally, Christianity has taught "Heaven" as a place of eternal life, the dwelling place of God


something wrong with this???

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Heaven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Traditionally, Christianity has taught "Heaven" as a place of eternal life, the dwelling place of God


something wrong with this???

You asking me? I have no problem with heaven. My problem is in how to get there

Read those verses from Romans again and see if that shouldn't make Christians scratch there noggin for just a sec...

 

[outhouse]

The term Heaven is applied by the Biblical authors to the realm in which God currently resides. Eternal life, by contrast, occurs in a renewed, unspoilt and perfect creation, which can be termed Heaven since God will choose to dwell there permanently with his people, as seen in Revelation 21:3. That there will no longer be any separation between God and man.

I find this to be correct as well

 

[Just_me_Mike]

The term Heaven is applied by the Biblical authors to the realm in which God currently resides. Eternal life, by contrast, occurs in a renewed, unspoilt and perfect creation, which can be termed Heaven since God will choose to dwell there permanently with his people, as seen in Revelation 21:3. That there will no longer be any separation between God and man.

I find this to be correct as well

I don't see any contradictions with that and the bible. You're on your way to becoming a preacher!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No. I'm saying that Heaven is not a physical place within the universe (or multiverse), and therefore no one can say definitively whether it exists or not; but if anyone is likely to express an opinion with any kind of authority, it is likely to be a theologian or religious professional, since it is a theological or metaphysical postulation.

Exactly what authority could a theologian or religious professional bring to the discussion? I thought you said tha tno one can say definitively whether it exists or not; if that's the case, then isn't Hawking's opinion just as valid as a theologian's?

Hawking appears to be saying that Heaven is not any kind of place, and he can say definitively that it does not exist.

Well, personally, I think that the term "place" implies physicality (making the term "physical place" redundant, BTW), which would mean that Heaven isn't any kind of place if it isn't a "physical place".

Again: is your view really that different from Hawkings'?

 

[outhouse]

Well, personally, I think that the term "place" implies physicality (making the term "physical place" redundant, BTW), which would mean that Heaven isn't any kind of place if it isn't a "physical place".

if you read the link I posted it starts out as a physical place

above the clouds and up in the stars

 

[Just_me_Mike]

9-10 Grrrrrrrrr... you have a knack for acting like shining bowling pins. You just want to knock them down... Though, this says nothing about your position, just your ability to present your position in such a manner

 

[Panda]

What makes a physicist qualified to make pronouncements about theology?

If Hawking tells me something about black holes, or the curvature of spacetime, or the probabilities of the Higgs-Boson being found next year, I will pay close attention and presume that his qualifications are beyond reproach, and above nearly anyone alive.

But his unquestioned genius for physics doesn't make him uniquely qualified to speak about spiritual and theological matters, anymore than it makes him uniquely qualified to make definitive pronouncements about Shakespeare's motivations in composing one of his sonnets. That simply isn't Hawking's area of training and expertise.

He is entitled to his theological, or atheological, opinions, as is anyone; but he is no more qualified to state that there absolutely is no afterlife than I would be to state that there will absolutely be a contraction of the universe followed by a Big Crunch.

In some respects a physicist knows far more about the workings of the universe, and if anything is more qualified than a theologian to make statements like this.

 

[ChristineES]

Cosmic Log - Hawking: 'There is no heaven'

Stephen Hawking, the famous British physicist, called the notion of heaven a "fairy story"


Now I certainly agree :bow:

And you want to argue with one of the top physicist?????

This statement is as silly as if I were to say "There is a Heaven", Billy Graham said so. Do you want argue with a top evangelist?". But it did make me smile, though.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's rather telling when someone takes one quote from a genius and runs with it.

Is it like running with scissors?

 

[ChristineES]

In some respects a physicist knows far more about the workings of the universe, and if anything is more qualified than a theologian to make statements like this.

I admire Mr. Hawking, but his being a scientist doesn't make him a authority on whether there is an afterlife or not. I would say the same thing if a theologian said there is "definitely an afterlife". These are things that no one can possibly know unless they have experienced them. And as far as I know, people never come back from being dead unless they are clinically dead for, say, half an hour or so while doctors are working on them- which means they probably were not brain dead (But not being a doctor, I don't know for sure of that).

 

[Vendetta]

You are almost correct and on point, however, you are not.

Heaven would certainly be an aspect of Cosmology; Cosmology is a field that Stephen Hawking specializes in and thus he is qualified to make such evaluations as to whether there is a heaven or not.


.

Heaven is not cosmology. Heaven (or the idea of it) does not exist in a space. We can say its a dimension but still I don't find a physicist qualified to comment on theological matters. Hell I don't think a physicist is qualified to comment on how Kobe Bryant makes his jump shots

 

[Revoltingest]

Heaven is not cosmology. Heaven (or the idea of it) does not exist in a space. We can say its a dimension but still I don't find a physicist qualified to comment on theological matters.

They're as qualified (& unqualified) as theologians...& Navy Seals....& landlords....& fluffers.

 

[Panda]

I admire Mr. Hawking, but his being a scientist doesn't make him a authority on whether there is an afterlife or not. I would say the same thing if a theologian said there is "definitely an afterlife". These are things that no one can possibly know unless they have experienced them. And as far as I know, people never come back from being dead unless they are clinically dead for, say, half an hour or so while doctors are working on them- which means they probably were not brain dead (But not being a doctor, I don't know for sure of that).

I disagree. His understanding of what actually makes up the universe is better than any layman's understanding.