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String Theory Co-Founder: Sub-Atomic Particles Are Evidence the Universe Was Created

idav

Being
Premium Member
It is often thrown about that Einstein has never been experimentally shown wrong. The experiment with quasar time dilation calls this idea into question.
There is a reason that I kept bringing up light because light follow both rules of QM and GR. As completely separate objects, light dilates space time, and extreme mass also dilates time. Light is not going to slow down as if it is in some dilation of time too an observer, it is already there. So color me less than impressed that light would act like it ignores physics, it certainly doesn't, light shows the foundation of GR.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
My point was that GR, SR and QM are not compatible. The model that will eventually be developed will (or so physicists such as Hawking and Kaku predict) unify them under a common conceptual and mathematical framework. GR, QM etc., are incomplete because they cannot account for all observed phenomena (that is, each others' subject areas). The Grand Theory of Everything will be mathematical, and it will incorporate everything that is already known, one way or another.
I agree we can't just throw out a theory it must incorporate with the rest of science, especially for something proven time and time again through experimentation. All those experiments were plenty of opportunity to debunk GR instead of validating it because GR is falsifiable just like any theory which is the beauty of experimentation and verification.
 

Zosimus

Active Member
There is a reason that I kept bringing up light because light follow both rules of QM and GR.
Assumes facts not in evidence.

As completely separate objects, light dilates space time, and extreme mass also dilates time.
Light does not dilate space time.

Light is not going to slow down as if it is in some dilation of time too an observer, it is already there. So color me less than impressed that light would act like it ignores physics, it certainly doesn't, light shows the foundation of GR.
GR is supposed to explain how gravity and relativistic motion affect things.
 

Zosimus

Active Member
I agree we can't just throw out a theory it must incorporate with the rest of science, especially for something proven time and time again through experimentation. All those experiments were plenty of opportunity to debunk GR instead of validating it because GR is falsifiable just like any theory which is the beauty of experimentation and verification.
Why not extend your reasoning to other things? Since parts of the Bible have been proven time and time again through archaeological research, Pi must equal 3.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Why not extend your reasoning to other things? Since parts of the Bible have been proven time and time again through archaeological research, Pi must equal 3.
Thats not at all the same thing. GR is falsifiable yet hasn't been. GR and QM are both foundational to physics, you cannot get rid of either one very easily at all, except through experimentation and falsification which anyone has yet to show for GR. I think GR is the very reason QM does the wacky stuff we find.
 

Blastcat

Active Member
Man claims intelligence and relates everything to their own perceptions and existence. We know that is extremely limited and full of fallacies. My best way of describing it would be intelligence=truth. It does not need man to interpret it. It simply is. As Dr. Kaku said "The mind of God, we believe, is cosmic music, the music of strings resonating through 11-dimensional hyperspace.”

This is just my own opinion and I am also just as limited by my human existence and still trying to make sense of it all!


The mind of God, we BELIEVE is? ... who is this "we"?

I certainly do NOT presuppose a god with a mind that we can know about.
If this quote is accurate, it's belief, opinion, but certainly NOT FACTS.

Kaku is ENTITLED to his opinions.

:)
 

Zosimus

Active Member
Thats not at all the same thing. GR is falsifiable yet hasn't been. GR and QM are both foundational to physics, you cannot get rid of either one very easily at all, except through experimentation and falsification which anyone has yet to show for GR. I think GR is the very reason QM does the wacky stuff we find.
I have already provided you with falsification experiments. You don't accept them. What is the point?

All right, here's another one. Black holes supposedly cause gravitational lensing because of their extreme gravity. Supposedly a supermassive black hole also lies at the center of the Milky Way galaxy. Why then do we not see gravitational lensing associated with this black hole?

The problem with relativity and falsification is that it isn't a theory. It's dozens of theories that don't agree with one another. Every time you disprove one, people fall back on one of the other theories. Why don't you first come up with just one theory, and then we'll smash it for you.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
All right, here's another one. Black holes supposedly cause gravitational lensing because of their extreme gravity. Supposedly a supermassive black hole also lies at the center of the Milky Way galaxy. Why then do we not see gravitational lensing associated with this black hole?
Tis because visible light is obscured by the copious gases & stars surrounding it.
To not see something doesn't mean it's not there.
Gravitational lensing is detectable in other places.
Have a better explanation for it than GR?
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I have already provided you with falsification experiments. You don't accept them. What is the point?
Really, while ignoring the fact that light already bends spacetime while still appearing to be light.
See post 136#
http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...iverse-was-created.188418/page-7#post-4797754
And read this portion carefully.
Since photons contribute to the stress–energy tensor, they exert a gravitational attraction on other objects, according to the theory of general relativity.
Gravitational attraction is due to bending spacetime.
 

Zosimus

Active Member
Tis because visible light is obscured by the copious gases & stars surrounding it.
To not see something doesn't mean it's not there.
Gravitational lensing is detectable in other places.
Have a better explanation for it than GR?
First of all, asking whether someone has a better explanation is a logical fallacy.

Second, I would suggest that you look at Lorentz relativity. Since visible light arriving from the Sun comes from a measurably different location than the point that the Earth is accelerating towards, it can be demonstrated that light and gravity propogate at different speeds. Gravity propogates much more quickly than does light. Thus, Einsteinian relativity is inferior to Lorentz relativity in this factor.
 

Zosimus

Active Member
Really, while ignoring the fact that light already bends spacetime while still appearing to be light.
See post 136#
http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...iverse-was-created.188418/page-7#post-4797754
And read this portion carefully.
This goes back to the same logical fallacy we previously discussed. A theory that successfully predicts some things but not others cannot rely on its successes for claims of accuracy. It must also confront its failures.

Gravitational attraction is due to bending spacetime.
Speculation.
 

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Your Thoughts?
If the All exists, then it can be said that this universe is one out of an infinite number of multiverses, therefore subatomic particles which act this way must exist - as one realized potential out of an infinite number of potentials - in at least some of those infinite number of universes.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
First of all, asking whether someone has a better explanation is a logical fallacy.
You reject a theory.
I asked if you have something better.
Tis not a logical fallacy to ask a question.
Second, I would suggest that you look at Lorentz relativity. Since visible light arriving from the Sun comes from a measurably different location than the point that the Earth is accelerating towards, it can be demonstrated that light and gravity propogate at different speeds. Gravity propogates much more quickly than does light. Thus, Einsteinian relativity is inferior to Lorentz relativity in this factor.
I was already familiar with Lorentz's work.
But it's unproductive to continue this line.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No, you have a theory. The theory has had some limited successes. That does not mean that the theory is true.
No theory is ever "true".
All stand ready to be replaced by something better.
But that something better than GR has yet to arrive.
 
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