Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

[Enlighten]

Hey, I know we all dont agree 100% with everything in our religions but I have been thinking really long and hard about something that was discussed in church on Sunday, here is the news story: BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Kirk votes to back gay minister

According to the bible it is a sin for to be gay (I struggle with this as I dont believe people "choose" to be gay, I think it is the way they are and they would live a lie if they pretended not to be): Romans, Chapter 1 (King James Bible) - ChristianAnswers® WebBible™

Another reason I am struggling with this as I have a few cousins of mine who are openly gay (and I must say I am close to them so dont want to offend them in anyway by posing this question to them) and they attend church but according to my church they are living a lie, then again maybe I should just come right out and ask what their thoughts are.....

Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), does this mean that I am sinning as I'm not opposing my family members? As you will gather, although I have been thinking about it long and hard, I still havent drawn my conclusion yet as I dont feel it is my place to judge someone because of their sexuality as I am not judged on mine (well not that I know of).

 

[Storm]

I have it from a fairly reliable source that Christ Himself never said a word against homosexulaity.

Paul may have, but I understand the translation is disputable, and even if he did, this is the same guy that said women should sit down and shut up.

 

[Enlighten]

I have it from a fairly reliable source that Christ Himself never said a word against homosexulaity.

Can you give me details of this source please?

 

[Storm]

Sojourner told me, and I believe him. I apologize if I implied something more official.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), does this mean that I am sinning as I'm not opposing my family members? As you will gather, although I have been thinking about it long and hard, I still havent drawn my conclusion yet as I dont feel it is my place to judge someone because of their sexuality as I am not judged on mine (well not that I know of).

IMO, the Bible allows for interpretations that permit homosexuality.

That aside, though, there are two distinct things here:

- the standard of behaviour that you use to judge yourself
- the standard of behaviour that you use to judge others

Biblically, are they the same? I don't think they are.

There are countless verses in the New Testament instructing Christians not to judge others, or to see to their own sins before the sins of others, or to leave judgement up to God entirely.

 

[Enlighten]

Sojourner told me, and I believe him. I apologize if I implied something more official.

LOL Ok I will contact them as its really annoying me that I have read this (perhaps I have interpreted it wrong which may be the case, I'm only human after all).

 

[Enlighten]

There are countless verses in the New Testament instructing Christians not to judge others, or to see to their own sins before the sins of others, or to leave judgement up to God entirely.

Yes and this is where I am struggling, why am I being asked to disagree with someones sexuality? When infact I dont see anything wrong with it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes and this is where I am struggling, why am I being asked to disagree with someones sexuality? When infact I dont see anything wrong with it.

Personally, I don't think you're being asked to do that. That was my point.

IMO, from my reading of the Bible, whether or not you meet the standard set out for you is a matter between you and God. Whether or not someone else meets the standard set out for them is a matter between them and God. Not you, just them and God.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The bible is a human document. Its view of homosexual activity was deplorable because the societal norms were deplorable. Period.

 

[Wandered Off]

Its view of homosexual activity was deplorable because the societal norms were deplorable.

This exactly. Societal norms were often mistaken for divine command.

 

[Enlighten]

Personally, I don't think you're being asked to do that. That was my point.

IMO, from my reading of the Bible, whether or not you meet the standard set out for you is a matter between you and God. Whether or not someone else meets the standard set out for them is a matter between them and God. Not you, just them and God.

Sorry I probably should have explained, I actually am being asked to do that by some members of my church who sat me down and gave me a "talking to" but when I defended myself by asking for proof all I was told is that I will be judged, this I dont agree with, how can I be judged by not judging others? So after church the only thing I found in the bible was Romans 1, but I feel like I may be mis-interpreting due to what I have been told.

 

[Enlighten]

Its view of homosexual activity was deplorable because the societal norms were deplorable. Period.

As per my previous post the only reference I think that could indicate homosexuals are "wrong" was in Romans 1 but as I said I couldnt find anything else and normally in the bible (I find anyway) the message to what we should adhere to is re-iterated in some way throughout, this is why I think I may have mis-interpreted following the ear-bashing I received at church because I dont see anything wrong with peoples sexual preferences, I think it is their choice and their choice alone.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry I probably should have explained, I actually am being asked to do that by some members of my church who sat me down and gave me a "talking to" but when I defended myself by asking for proof all I was told is that I will be judged, this I dont agree with, how can I be judged by not judging others? So after church the only thing I found in the bible was Romans 1, but I feel like I may be mis-interpreting due to what I have been told.

Wow. That's unfortunate.

I'm not sure what I would've done in that situation. Maybe something involving shouting Matthew 23 at them while storming out.

Edit: or maybe quoting Romans 14:4 at them while telling them to butt out of God's business.

 

[Wandered Off]

... I dont see anything wrong with peoples sexual preferences, I think it is their choice and their choice alone.

I think your position in the OP was more accurate:

I dont believe people "choose" to be gay, I think it is the way they are and they would live a lie if they pretended not to be

If you call it a "preference" and a "choice," it will leave the bigots an opening to twist the argument.

 

[Quagmire]

Sorry I probably should have explained, I actually am being asked to do that by some members of my church who sat me down and gave me a "talking to" but when I defended myself by asking for proof all I was told is that I will be judged,

That's just the clergy saying, "I don't have any viable reasons, but I do have these niffty threats that usually do the trick...".

this I dont agree with, how can I be judged by not judging others?

You'll be judged by people who want you to judge others. It's sort of like the unspoken code of a passive-aggressive street gang.

So after church the only thing I found in the bible was Romans 1, but I feel like I may be mis-interpreting due to what I have been told.

Romans does speak against engaging in homosexual activities. It doesn't say anything about making sure other people don't, or judging them if they do.

 

[Enlighten]

Wow. That's unfortunate.

I'm not sure what I would've done in that situation. Maybe something involving shouting Matthew 23 at them while storming out.

Edit: or maybe quoting Romans 14:4 at them while telling them to butt out of God's business.

You know what, I totally love this post, its from the same book as I found the other passage if only I'd have read on..... I bet you can already imagine how Sunday is going to go if I receive another talking to! Lets just say there is a lot more reading to be done before I return on Sunday.

 

[Enlighten]

I think your position in the OP was more accurate:

If you call it a "preference" and a "choice," it will leave the bigots an opening to twist the argument.

oops yeah I should've retained as per my original post and used "choose", "choice" etc. Thanks for pointing this out!

 

[Enlighten]

That's just the clergy saying, "I don't have any viable reasons, but I do have these niffty threats that usually do the trick...".

I annoys me why there are some clergy think they have the right to do this.

[/quote]You'll be judged by people who want you to judge others. It's sort of like the unspoken code of a passive-aggressive street gang.[/quote]

Thats a good way of putting it actually, no wonder Christianity at times gets a bad name.

[/quote]Romans does speak against engaging in homosexual activities. It doesn't say anything about making sure other people don't, or judging them if they do.[/quote]

So basically I haven't mis-interpreted but I am right with my stand-point, it is not up to me to judge is what your saying? And that because I dont actually see anything wrong with homosexuality as I believe it is not a "choice" that it is the way someone is, then actually there was no point in those people giving me a talking to as it is neither my place or theirs to put their judgements or ask me to put judgements on others, if that makes sense?

 

[Quagmire]

I annoys me why there are some clergy think they have the right to do this.

It's a definite abuse of position; using guilt or the threat of ostracism to force members of their congregation to get with the program (theirs). It's an old tactic, probably as old as religion itself (check out what Jesus said about the Pharisees).

So basically I haven't mis-interpreted but I am right with my stand-point, it is not up to me to judge is what your saying?

That's actually what the Bible is saying. :yes:

And that because I dont actually see anything wrong with homosexuality as I believe it is not a "choice" that it is the way someone is, then actually there was no point in those people giving me a talking to as it is neither my place or theirs to put their judgements or ask me to put judgements on others, if that makes sense?

That makes perfect sense. I think, more than anything, it's a WWJD sort of situation. From what I can see in the gospels the only people Jesus ever pointed the finger at and said "Stop that" too were the religious leaders.

I don't think things would be much different if he were here today.

 

[Enlighten]

It's a definite abuse of position; using guilt or the threat of ostracism to force members of their congregation to get with the program (theirs). It's an old tactic, probably as old as religion itself (check out what Jesus said about the Pharisees).



That's actually what the Bible is saying. :yes:



That makes perfect sense. I think, more than anything, it's a WWJD sort of situation. From what I can see in the gospels the only people Jesus ever pointed the finger at and said "Stop that" too were the religious leaders.

I don't think things would be much different if he were here today.

Thank you! I thought I was going mad for a moment! (well since Sunday) The worst of the situation was that it wasn't the minister that gave me a talking to it was a member of the church.

I have to agree that Jesus would be appalled if he was to walk the earth today and see what most religious "leaders" have become (or "are").

One more thing: whats WWJD? I'm not very good with abbreviations, hee hee.