Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
What Would Jesus Do.
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Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.
- Thread starter Enlighten
- Start date
Thank you! I thought I was going mad for a moment! (well since Sunday)The worst of the situation was that it wasn't the minister that gave me a talking to it was a member of the church.
I have to agree that Jesus would be appalled if he was to walk the earth today and see what most religious "leaders" have become (or "are").
One more thing: whats WWJD? I'm not very good with abbreviations, hee hee.
WWJD=What Would Jesus Do.
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
Whew! I was beginning to get paranoid when I saw all those bracelets I thought meant "When will Jerry die?"
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Rats, I thought it meant "who wants Jack Daniels?"
McBell
Unbound
The problem with using Matthew 23 is that far to many people use it out of context and even more believe that it is a command to not judge.
The thing is, Matthew 23 is not a command about judging.
It is a warning that the standards you use to judge others will be the same standards used to judge you.
I would also likely mention James 4:12, Romans 2:1, 1 Peter 4:15, John 10:29...just to name a few.
James 4:12
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
1 Peter 4:15
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
1 Peter 4:15
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
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Duh! i guess you can tell I am blonde! lol
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Not much of a NT reader but after reading that particular chapter it appears to be a condemnation of the Greek way of life. not just the all inclusive orgies that were abound but the general attitude and mentality of the populace. Greece, and Rome, were full of that activity even before Paul decided to be a missionary.
As for where it is stated to a rule against homosexuality, that law is in Leviticus. But, I have always been under the impression that those laws(i.e. the Mosaic laws) were set for the Jews only and don't apply to any gentile.
Enlighted...one further thing... remind them of something Jesus said... "Let those without sin throw the first stone." He was speaking to Jews at the time but it makes a good argument toward anyone.
As for where it is stated to a rule against homosexuality, that law is in Leviticus. But, I have always been under the impression that those laws(i.e. the Mosaic laws) were set for the Jews only and don't apply to any gentile.
Enlighted...one further thing... remind them of something Jesus said... "Let those without sin throw the first stone." He was speaking to Jews at the time but it makes a good argument toward anyone.
Good point, we are all born into sin so who are we to judge anyone that "sins".
As a non-believer I do not regard the Bible or any other sacred text to be anything other than a product of the minds of men, though I doubt that's any comfort. Even so, I'd like to argue that the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality, but it does. In Genesis, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because their people practiced homosexuality, sodomy to be precise, the very word is derived from Sodom.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Only a moral defective could read the story of Sodom & Gomorrah and conclude that the crime was homosexuality, as opposed to gang rape.
Wrong, Lot (a "righteous man") offered his daughters to the mob so that they would leave the angels alone, which they refused. Their crime was attempted sodomy not rape.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
So what?
Are you denying they were rapists, or asserting that homosexuality is worse than rape?
Meaning that Lot (or the author of Genesis) had no problem with Lot offering his daughters to the mob, so that they could be raped. So clearly rape itself was not the issue, but the homosexual aspect of the crime. Regardless, the Bible is very clear in it's condemnation of homosexuality, as is only to be expected given the culture it originated within.
To the morality of Genesis, homosexuality is worse than rape.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
You're moving the goalposts. I didn't deny the Bible condemns homosexuality.
I was responding to rakhel when I said that.
The bible is very clear regarding Homosexuality. Still theoriginal question deals with the way soceity sees homosexuals.
it is not simple for me since Im a devoted Roman Catholic yet believe on basic human rights - including the right of every person to love and be loved. I think this way of life is not to be promoted, but not to be condemn as well. Family and friends is most important. You should be there for them constantly. Thats being Christian as well!
it is not simple for me since Im a devoted Roman Catholic yet believe on basic human rights - including the right of every person to love and be loved. I think this way of life is not to be promoted, but not to be condemn as well. Family and friends is most important. You should be there for them constantly. Thats being Christian as well!
This underlined is what bothers me. If you have sinned, which I know you have, then you are at church tainted with sin as well. All humans are. If a gay person can come to terms with God and homosexuality, then kudos to them, for figuring out Jesus forgives
. Just because they are gay does not automatically doom them, no more than a fat person for being fat, or a vain person spending 5 hours to get ready to go out in public. These are sins just as much as being gay, but none of which equals a certain doom, as they are forgivable.