Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
"carefully define their role"? I'll have to try that on the next cop that stops me. "Excuse me officer we need to carefully define your role". Yeah that will turn out well
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Student Protests Against Israel Are Wonderful
- Thread starter Revoltingest
- Start date
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I agree! I have even said this very thing multiple times. The question is: how does that justify dropping bombs on those citizens?
No. Nor have I ever said nor implied that Hamas want any such thing. I've explained repeatedly that I do not support Hamas and I support military operations against them. What part of that are you refusing to understand?
How many times do I have to tell you I don't support Hamas?
One more time?
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ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
No. States with mixed ethnographic makeup are, in fact, capable of enacting genocide.
Also, I'm not claiming they're enacting genocide. The only claims I'm making in this thread is that the degree of their bombings in Gaza indicates wilful disregard for the lives on Gazan citizens to the point of war crimes. Countries with mixed ethnographic makeup are also capable of doing that.
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If you're in charge of a university, & coordinate
your traffic offense in advance, you have a shot.
In the news, USA is having difficulty keeping up
with demand drop bombs on Palestinians.
www.defensenews.com
USA talks about cease fire.
That's it.....talk.
Israel's version of a cease fire agreement is to
continue attacking Palestinians.
News for israel to attack rafa
Netanyahu says Israel will launch military campaign against Rafah even with cea…
USA TODAY on MSN.com17h
with demand drop bombs on Palestinians.
Soaring US munitions demand strains support for Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan
The military is having difficulty maintaining adequate munitions inventory levels as wars erupt in the Middle East, Europe and possibly the Pacific.
USA talks about cease fire.
That's it.....talk.
Israel's version of a cease fire agreement is to
continue attacking Palestinians.
News for israel to attack rafa
Netanyahu says Israel will launch military campaign against Rafah even with cea…
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
No what justifies it is Israel has a right to defend itself. The fact that civilians die as a result of Israel defending itself is on Hamas not Israel. That's what you can't ever through your head.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Does the right to defend yourself include the right to commit war crimes?
Do you literally believe any action, regardless of how destructive or how many civilians would die as a consequence, can be justified as self defence? Or have you never once considered the possibility that a country can do things in the name of self-defence that aren't actually morally or legally justified? This shouldn't be that hard to figure out. If you kick my shin and I kill your entire family, I cannot argue that that action can be reasonably justified on the basis of "self defence". There's a limit to what can be considered reasonable actions to take in the name of self defence. And if you believe it IS justified self defence, then please furnish me with the exact risk posed to Israel's defence from the more than a dozen-thousand infants that have been killed by them in the past few months.
And are you going to apologise for repeatedly implying I support Hamas?
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Depends. In the case of Israel it isn't a war crime because Hamas out the civilians in harms way.
If I put my family in front of me as a shield then it cant be a surprise to anyone that they got hurt. I suspect most people would consider me a filthy coward if I did use my family as a shield. That's hamas.
No I won't because you are definitely more opposed to Israel's actions than those of Hamas.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
That's not how war crimes work. You can't bomb a residential area and claim it's okay because there were terrorists there.
But if a terrorist used your family as a shield and the police just shot your entire family in order to get to the terrorist, while you undoubtedly would lay at least some blame on the terrorist, it wouldn't be unreasonable for you also to hold the police accountable for killing your family by choosing to kill them in order to get to the terrorist.
I agree. They are cowards. But does Hamas (or you, in your analogy) being cowards justify the killing of civilians? Are you going to argue that because you were a coward who hid behind your family, that therefore your family DESERVED to die and making the choice to kill them to get to you has no moral bearing and should come with zero repercussions?
I'm opposed to both, but right now it's Israel that are killing for more people and receiving must larger amount of international resources to do it. I can't protest against Hamas terrorism, but I can protest against the country I live in or the institution I work for or within funding Israel with weapons that are going towards killing very large numbers of civilians.
You surely understand this, right? You can't justify ANY action just in the name of self defence? A terrorist hiding behind a human shield doesn't necessarily justify the shooting of the human shield. They are two very different moral actions, and both carry consequences.
Biden is on BBC right now criticizing protesters against
Israel's genocide. He says they must obey the law.
Yet it violates US law to supply Israel with bombs
dropped on civilians.
When Biden acts illegally with deadly consequences,
it's the height of hypocrisy to criticize them for
violence-lite, while he supports genocide.
A government that ignores its own laws, & rights
afforded people should expect violent resistance.
Dishonest people will say "That supports the violence!".
I just recognize what happens. The solution is for USA
to obey its own laws, & show more justice for all.
This will curb lawlessness among the populace.
Israel's genocide. He says they must obey the law.
Yet it violates US law to supply Israel with bombs
dropped on civilians.
When Biden acts illegally with deadly consequences,
it's the height of hypocrisy to criticize them for
violence-lite, while he supports genocide.
A government that ignores its own laws, & rights
afforded people should expect violent resistance.
Dishonest people will say "That supports the violence!".
I just recognize what happens. The solution is for USA
to obey its own laws, & show more justice for all.
This will curb lawlessness among the populace.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
No where have I said it was ok. You keep implying that but I've never said it or inferred it.
All you did with the police is insert a third patry. There are only two parties here.
AGAIN your use of the word justify. The implication of that word is that I think it's ok what Israel is doing. I never have.
You choose not to protest hamas terrorism. It BS that you can't. Thats why I'm not impressed with your arguments.
The difference here is the people behind the human shields, Hamas, want compete eradication of jees from the face of the earth. They also use shields to elicit exactly this kind of response. They know their position is ultimately untenable. Their only hold is pressing a PR campaign against Israel so that their support evaporates and makes Israel the easy target they want them to be.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I have repeatedly asked how it is justified to drop bombs on civilians. Earlier I asked:
Post 544:
"The question is: how does that (i.e: Hamas using human shields) justify dropping bombs on those citizens?"
And you answered:
Post 548:
"No what justifies it is Israel has a right to defend itself."
You have very explicitly stated that you believe it's justified.
No. There's not just Hamas in Gaza. There's also civilians. In the analogy, your family were the civilians.
I have directly quoted you above in post 548 saying it is justified for Israel to drop bombs on civilians.
Tell me, after 9/11, how many protests were there against Al Qaeda?
Protests happen against ruling political authorities and raising awareness TO those authorities. You don't protest against terrorism. You might protest for your state to do more ABOUT terrorism, but protesting terrorists themselves is like protesting against cancer. I mean, it's better to be against it than for it, but a protest doesn't exactly tend to affect it at all.
Why does that make a difference as to the values of the lives of those they use as human shields? I can agree with you on every possible way that Hamas is bad and it would be better if they were eradicated, but that has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it is justified to kill tens of thousands of civilians - even in order to achieve that aim - is justified.
Which is bad, I agree.
So why should we punish civilians for that? That's what you're not telling me.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
"We" aren't punishing civilians Hamas is.
They shouldn't be punished but they are being punished by the hatred Hamas has for the Jews. Hamas has no concern for Jews or Gazan civilians. As bas as Israel is Hamas is twice as bad. You want don't want civilians to continue being killed? Me either. Take it up with hamas.
Your post reminds me of the old wife beater line....
"It wasn't my fault that I hit her.
She caused it by not shutting the **** up."
It allows Israelis to think it doesn't matter if
they commit genocide because they'll
just blame Hamas for everything.
Blaming others for one's own criminal
behavior bespeaks dishonesty, fanaticism,
& an utter lack of humanity.
No. The varying tolerance between the two cultures shows one can live peacefully with the other, but the other seeks genocide. “From the river to the sea.”
Biden is discovering that he's on the wrong side of history.
It reminds me of Nixon & Johnson vs anti-war protesters.
Just as protesters now are decried as "Anti-Semites!!!!", back
in the day, they were called "dirty hippies", & "commies".
Clueless leaders cling to doing wrong, just as the public
turns against them. And with Biden doing nothing to
stop Israel's genocide of Palestinians, he's losing states
he previously won....screwing the pooch in Michigan by
alienating Muslims, heathens, & students.
It reminds me of Nixon & Johnson vs anti-war protesters.
Just as protesters now are decried as "Anti-Semites!!!!", back
in the day, they were called "dirty hippies", & "commies".
Clueless leaders cling to doing wrong, just as the public
turns against them. And with Biden doing nothing to
stop Israel's genocide of Palestinians, he's losing states
he previously won....screwing the pooch in Michigan by
alienating Muslims, heathens, & students.
You mischievously infer a call for genocide.
But the difference is that Israel is the one
actually committing genocide.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Israel are the ones currently dropping bombs on them. You're arguing that's justified.
And by Israel dropping bombs on them.
Neither does Israel, apparently.
Depends. If you're taking about pure rhetoric, you're right. But if you want to talk about actual harm being done, Israel are doing significantly more harm than Hamas.
I'd rather take it up with the people choosing to kill them rather than the people who have chosen to be indifferent to their killing.
Why do you believe Israel has no moral responsibility to not kill thousands of civilians?
Pogo
Well-Known Member
Biden is stuck between his Catholic upbringing and the US religious history of supporting Israel and the reality that Jews are not actually supportive of Netenyahu. Netanyahu is the local populist authoritarian leader that to many countries have fallen for. He grew up with unconditional support and now has to find a way to walk it back. I hope that he will deserve credit for behind the scenes pressure when history comes out.