study suggests COVID-19 has long-term effects on nearly every organ system

[Shadow Wolf]

You guys Do focus more on the deaths.

Where on earth are getting this from? I just said:

It's why I have refuted the claims that only include death by emphasizing death isn't the only thing covid can do.

No, I haven't been focusing on death, not unless it's demographs who are an elevated risk for death.

Shadow Wolf, though. The thread on "information about COVID" is nothing but deaths.

This is false it does include case number totals, deaths, and recovered, and other bits of information about COVID. Because it is "information about COVID," not "deaths related to COVID."

I tried bringing up people who have survived, and one RF said "who cares?"

No, again, this is misrepresentation. No one (that I am aware of) has said "who cares." Rather, it's been putting that on a lower priority in light of a disease that has killed about as many as cancer, and likely far more than even heart disease had we done nothing. Recoveries are great, but we can't forget this is an extremely contagious virus that has evolved many times already, jumping to several different animals and producing strains that are even more contagious and more deadly than the original.
Yes, people get better. What of it? It doesn't help when people are willingly and voluntarily giving this virus more chances to mutate into something worse. It doesn't help those who are still sick, months after their body is covid free. It doesn't help the healthcare workers who have been swamped and overworked for the past year, with many having to make decisions they should never have had to have made, entirely because people are being so selfish and think it all revolves around them and their actions have no consequences for others. Who cares that people are getting better when so many refuse to accept they are killing their neighbors?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Things can also vary in there purported severity, no? Which means things like long term health impacts vary from disease to disease.

A case of the common cold, is less severe then getting say Ebola? Right?

I don't see the cancer comparison, as cancers are all one thing (an expression of irregular cellular growth), it just occurs in many places. .

Yes. I'm comparing virus illnesses. Ebola would be worse than COVID but I think we can treat Ebola if we attack it soon enough. COVID, people have survive which, with Ebola, more than likely would not be the case if there weren't treatment. AIDs virus seem to have a longer life expectancy than COVID and like illnesses, but the severity of them without treatment isn't like comparing the flu. Unlike the flu, these are life and death illnesses.

Do you think the seriousness of an illness would also factor in life expectancy despite treatment?

Why would it be wrong to say a virus illnesses is worse than COVID without needing to discredit the serious of COVID in doing so?

My grandmother died of AIDs and I know there are viruses worse off than AIDs, but that doesn't discredit the seriousness of the condition.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That those such as yourself are very wrong to focus on death as though it's all we have to worry about with Covid.

From this. There is a lot of focus on death on RF... especially with the death counts. Even offering positive information on health relating to COVID was shot down and replaced with empathy for those who suffered and died from it.

Which makes me wonder if people only reserve sympathy for the dying and sick but if talking about helping others prevent illnesses, it takes the back burner.

 

[The Hammer]

Why would it be wrong to say a virus illnesses is worse than COVID without needing to discredit the serious of COVID in doing so?

I've never insinuated this. But it sure seemed like you were:

Since most illnesses gave long term effects (personal experience), what would be unique to this line of thinking?

ie: What makes Covid different then other viruses?

That would be the long term multisystemic effects after the virus has left the body (ie: not infected anymore). AIDS is caused by HIV (which the body can't fight off), and has long term effects due to its continual presence. I'm not comparing one as worse than the other.

Do you think the seriousness of an illness would also factor in life expectancy despite treatment?

The seriousness of an illness takes both of those into account, mortality with and without treatment, as well as long term complications and comorbidities.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, I haven't been focusing on death, not unless it's demographs who are an elevated risk for death.

It wasn't personal. Just an observation from the many COVID threads on RF and the information about COVID with its death counts.

This is false it does include case number totals, deaths, and recovered, and other bits of information about COVID. Because it is "information about COVID," not "deaths related to COVID."

Most of the information about COVID (outside of stats) are individual threads. I think the info about threads is reserved mostly for counts and links but not full discussions. Maybe because like this it always becomes heated when the OP doesn't intend it to be.

No, again, this is misrepresentation. No one (that I am aware of) has said "who cares."

Rather, it's been putting that on a lower priority in light of a disease that has killed about as many as cancer, and likely far more than even heart disease had we done nothing. Recoveries are great, but we can't forget this is an extremely contagious virus that has evolved many times already, jumping to several different animals and producing strains that are even more contagious and more deadly than the original.

Hey. That's what they said. I know not everyone fits the boat but there is a pattern for/against here that can't be missed. There's a quote I heard awhile back saying as individuals, we're smart but as a group, we're quite dumb.

It is. The problem is because everyone doesn't have the same expression of empathy, there is a problem. I think this thread would have been better if it were treated from the OP topic perspective and not the person.

Yes, people get better. What of it? It doesn't help when people are willingly and voluntarily giving this virus more chances to mutate into something worse. It doesn't help those who are still sick, months after their body is covid free. It doesn't help the healthcare workers who have been swamped and overworked for the past year, with many having to make decisions they should never have had to have made, entirely because people are being so selfish and think it all revolves around them and their actions have no consequences for others. Who cares that people are getting better when so many refuse to accept they are killing their neighbors?

Exactly. "What of it?" That's actually a pretty good sign and my point above. I'm personally not motivated by deaths but by people who actually live.

Maybe we should also be focusing on how to prevent and the people who get better not just the people who are sick and those who died. I know some people are motivated by the dying, but, from a conversation standpoint, it does have its depressing parts.

That's why it's good to have information, things that help prevent catching the virus (not just masks and vaccines-example only), and things of that nature.

Who cares about people who are getting better???? People have had COVID on this site... why would you not care?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've never insinuated this. But it sure seemed like you were:

Insinuating?

ie: What makes Covid different then other viruses?

That would be the long term multisystemic effects after the virus has left the body (ie: not infected anymore). AIDS is caused by HIV (which the body can't fight off), and has long term effects due to its continual presence.

I was asking the OP what was his or her point. As a lung virus among other viruses, of course they would have long term affects. Since this is in general debates, I was wondering what was the point.

The way I handle things, though, is to put it in perspective. If I just singled out COVID as the number 1 virus as on the news etc I'd drive myself crazy when I really don't need to. Instead, I choose to look at things from a general view and based on other illnesses that may or may not be just as worse. Unless the illness came from Mars or Venus, I'm not very worried about it unless I'm at a high risk.

You do get my point when comparing it to HIV, right?

The seriousness of an illness takes both of those into account, mortality with and without treatment, as well as long term complications and comorbidities.

Why would COVID be singled out knowing we have other viruses and conditions that are just the same or worse? From a medical perspective.

 

[The Hammer]

That sounds really bad. Wish you both all the strength needed. And you did not get Corona, even while living together?

Seeing your name "The hammer" I picture you being young (not old). Did your wife get Corona without having any prior health conditions? If that's the case then I probably knock down dead the moment I catch that virus, having a very bad immune system and already quite a few organs being impaired. My Master did warn me, that I better not get it, so I enjoy living my recluse life the past year. Where I live I don't hear any cases at all, so definitely not that severe. So, thanks for sharing, good reminder to be careful. Though I am fine to die (I had a good life), I rather avoid more serious complications.

Depends on what you define as "not old", lol. She was relatively healthy before COVID, yes.

Edit: and no, even living together I did not get sick. I have a decent immune system.

 

[The Hammer]

Why would COVID be singled out knowing we have other viruses and conditions that are just the same or worse? From a medical perspective.

Because, currently, covid is making the rounds at exponential rates (due to its viral and airborne nature), so the percentage of people getting infected is also at exponential rates. This means a large percentage of the global population has or will get covid at some point. This is unlike AIDS, being sexually transmitted, has a slower transmission rate. I've also never met many anti-condomers, but masks? Hooo boy.

Now what happens if 50-80% of those people get long term symptoms, and can't work for a year or more (ever?)? The impact this will have is unprecedented, this is one reason why covid is being singled out currently.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hey. That's what they said. I know not everyone fits the boat but there is a pattern for/against here that can't be missed.

Yes. And you've misrepresented this as a cold, blatant dismissal of who cares if people are recovering.

It wasn't personal. Just an observation from the many COVID threads on RF and the information about COVID with its death counts.

And it's a misrepresentation. They aren't all about death and nothing but death.

You do get my point when comparing it to HIV, right?

No, because it's not valid. You can't get HIV from someone by being in the same room in them. You can't get it from normal physical contact with a person who is HIV positive. It's incredibly unlikely to accidentally get it.
Covid has high risk of getting it from people who are in the same room. The physical water droplets that spread covid need something to block their passage into us. And people who have been careful and sure they'd safe and ok weren't.

Why would COVID be singled out knowing we have other viruses and conditions that are just the same or worse? From a medical perspective.

Because most of the world hasn't been exposed to the covid virus yet, meaning we have no natural immunity to it. And the focus on covid is because it is deadly (it's killed about as many as cancer, likely it would have out-killed heart disease had we done nothing about it), and is it so highly contagious. If anything, it being so very contagious is why it's an issue. It's why the distancing. It's why the masks. It's why the avoid gatherings. It's because this germ spreads like wildfire, and we've also found it is very prone to mutating, likes to jump around, and will produce unique strands where it gets passed around among groups not taking steps to mitigate the problems.
If it wasn't so contagious, and more easily contained like other corona virus like Ebola, this one would be a joke and we could roll our eyes at the latest killer bug of the year on the news. But it turns out this virus is massively contagious, it's growing to become even more contagious, and the original strain didn't need any help. But now we have predominately the British strain, which is way more contagious and deadly than the original.
It turns out this is a pretty big deal and not at all like most other viruses. We take steps to encourage good health by eating right and exercising to promote heart health. We have banned many carcinogenic substances. We are very strict about alcohol and tobacco. Covid would probably be a greater risk than heart disease had we done nothing. If the 3,000 dead a day were a year long trend, it would kill over a million people. Nearly 1.5 million if the 4,000 a day were a year long trend. And that's just death. That's not counting the massive illness and economic damage and collapse from such a devastating virus.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I've also never met many anti-condomers

Lucky you.
They taught my sex ed in high school.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because, currently, covid is making the rounds at exponential rates (due to its viral and airborne nature), so the percentage of people getting infected is also at exponential rates. This means a large percentage of the global population has or will get covid at some point. This is unlike AIDS, being sexually transmitted, has a slower transmission rate. I've also never met many anti-condomers, but masks? Hooo boy.

Now what happens if 50-80% of those people get long term symptoms, and can't work for a year or more (ever?)? The impact this will have is unprecedented, this is one reason why covid is being singled out currently.

Yes. Though, my overall point was why is saying that one illness(s) is much more deadly that COVID discredit the seriousness of the condition?

That, and how would giving information about the COVID condition be disregarded because of the person who posted it?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes. And you've misrepresented this as a cold, blatant dismissal of who cares if people are recovering.

And it's a misrepresentation. They aren't all about death and nothing but death.

No, because it's not valid. You can't get HIV from someone by being in the same room in them. You can't get it from normal physical contact with a person who is HIV positive. It's incredibly unlikely to accidentally get it.
Covid has high risk of getting it from people who are in the same room. The physical water droplets that spread covid need something to block their passage into us. And people who have been careful and sure they'd safe and ok weren't.

Because most of the world hasn't been exposed to the covid virus yet, meaning we have no natural immunity to it. And the focus on covid is because it is deadly (it's killed about as many as cancer, likely it would have out-killed heart disease had we done nothing about it), and is it so highly contagious. If anything, it being so very contagious is why it's an issue. It's why the distancing. It's why the masks. It's why the avoid gatherings. It's because this germ spreads like wildfire, and we've also found it is very prone to mutating, likes to jump around, and will produce unique strands where it gets passed around among groups not taking steps to mitigate the problems.
If it wasn't so contagious, and more easily contained like other corona virus like Ebola, this one would be a joke and we could roll our eyes at the latest killer bug of the year on the news. But it turns out this virus is massively contagious, it's growing to become even more contagious, and the original strain didn't need any help. But now we have predominately the British strain, which is way more contagious and deadly than the original.
It turns out this is a pretty big deal and not at all like most other viruses. We take steps to encourage good health by eating right and exercising to promote heart health. We have banned many carcinogenic substances. We are very strict about alcohol and tobacco. Covid would probably be a greater risk than heart disease had we done nothing. If the 3,000 dead a day were a year long trend, it would kill over a million people. Nearly 1.5 million if the 4,000 a day were a year long trend. And that's just death. That's not counting the massive illness and economic damage and collapse from such a devastating virus.

You got me confused mixing up my comments with Hammer's. I'm sure you have a different perspective than he does.

 

[stvdv]

No. (Again because this really needs addressed on it's own)
The fear that worsens your immune system are things like severe anxiety.

NO. There you are wrong in my opinion. But it's fine, we disagree on something.

Becoming fearful when dad comes home because the drinking, yelling, beatings, and raping is about to begin.

Maybe something you experienced, but there are many types of fear. And Covid is one of them, this I know for sure

It is anxiety caused when someone fears coming to work

You miss the point totally and make a random useless comparison

Staying home, where is the fear in that?

Again, random useless comparison

And want us to have weaker immune systems? You're talking about a global conspiracy with many opposing nations going along with it. Like, China, Russia, America, Germany, Germany, even Iran all acted on the threat posed by Covid. There's no way such countries are going to cooperate over a hoax

I hope you are right. I won't be surprised if such a conspiracy would be real in 1 way or another. Time will tell. No need to speculate.

Sai Baba, who's wisdom I trust 1000 times more than yours has said many times that doctors should not create fear, exactly giving examples of what I see they are doing now with Covid. IF you don't see it fine, but I can clearly see it. Another point we disagree on. Fine with me, I won't discuss it any more. You have your opinion and I have mine. Yours is true for you, mine is true for me. Let us leave it at that. I don't want nor try to convince you to change your view, please don't try to convince me, you won't succeed anyway

 

[The Hammer]

Yes. Though, my overall point was why is saying that one illness(s) is much more deadly that COVID discredit the seriousness of the condition?

That, and how would giving information about the COVID condition be disregarded because of the person who posted it?

Afaik, it doesn't. And I've never insinuated it as such. Now, I did make a snarky remark to someone I've watched downplay the virus and it's long term implications from day 1, I freely admit that.

But the OP was about the prevelance and recorded symptomology of long covid, and I'm assuming posted in the debate section because people have tried claiming long Covid isn't a thing/are dissmisive (including some medical professionals). Therefore, it is debatable for some.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes. And you've misrepresented this as a cold, blatant dismissal of who cares if people are recovering.

When you say "what of it" to people who are not sick or dying of COVID, and I mention there are people here that have had COVID, I wondered why would you Not care.

It was to this: Yes, people get better. What of it? It doesn't help when people are willingly and voluntarily giving this virus more chances to mutate into something worse.

But you can still care about others despite all of this. Would you laugh at someone who "actually" discredit COVID or laugh at someone who didn't have a mask on and so happen to have COVID?

I wouldn't do that personally, but it doesn't sound like you would agree.

One person dying and thousands of people dying, one person dying of pneumonia and thousands of dying of COVID doesn't change that we should care about one group of people over another. To me-that line of thinking is hypocritical.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You got me confused mixing up my comments with Hammer's. I'm sure you have a different perspective than he does.

More misrepresentations.
I directly quoted your posts, and you say I confused you with some one else?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Afaik, it doesn't. And I've never insinuated it as such. Now, I did make a snarky remark to someone I've watched downplay the virus and it's long term implications from day 1, I freely admit that.

But the OP was about the prevelance and recorded symptomology of long covid, and I'm assuming posted in the debate section because people have tried claiming long Covid isn't a thing/are dissmisive (including some medical professionals). Therefore, it is debatable for some.

The majority are very political in their pro-mask/pro-vaccine/you're a covidiot views, so I wouldn't be surprised that even if the OP was bringing up a debate, it wouldn't be started by the minority. But I do find it useful to just go by the OP. The same information posted by you or someone else reads the same and such; so, its not the OPers fault that there is a debate, it's the people who perceive it as so (my observation). Problem is it bothers me like a bugger but sometimes I wish my computer would say "no. you know what's going to happen" before I reply.

 

[The Hammer]

Would you laugh at someone who "actually" discredit COVID or laugh at someone who didn't have a mask on and so happen to have COVID?

Yes, I absolutely would.

Just not to their face, I'd be supportive personally. Deep down inside and behind closed doors, I would be laughing. But my sense of humor is often not that of others.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, I absolutely would.

Just not to their face, I'd be supportive personally. Deep down inside and behind closed doors, I would be laughing. But my sense of humor is often not that of others.

Love the sinner and not the sin,huh?

 

[The Hammer]

The majority are very political in their pro-mask/pro-vaccine/you're a covidiot views, so I wouldn't be surprised that even if the OP was bringing up a debate, it wouldn't be started by the minority.

A lot of this is thanks to congress and the previous administrations overall response to the virus, unfortunately. Personally, I take politics out of it. Science isn't political.