Subjective/Objective reallity

[Segev Moran]

Subjectivity should be the objective of our reality, whereas objectivity should be the subject of our existence. Yeah, that the ticket...

Sorry. I don't understand.
Can you please elaborate?

 

[Segev Moran]

Accept both the realities. In search of one do not forget the other.

What will you do when one contradicts the other?

 

[Segev Moran]

This is good advice. When one doesn't know if there is more than one reality or universe, then I would say this is the way to go.

Sounds like you offer to accept any subjective reality.
So if my subjective reality suggests a moon made out of blue cheese, should other consider it as possible?

 

[BSM1]

Sorry. I don't understand.
Can you please elaborate?

I would but it sounds a lot better in my head then when I try to write it out.

 

[Desert Snake]

Can you give an example of such a reality?
What about the earth being a spheroid?
wouldn't you consider it as objective reality?

I happen to think that the earth is a spheroid, but i cant prove it. It might be objective in a contextual argument.

And i wasn't talking about truth, rather reality

Atheism and Theism are truths. They are subjective by necessity, and since your op addressed atheism as it concerns objectivity, this fact is important to realize.

 

[bobhikes]

What about the moon? wouldn't you say it is an objective reality?

Not at all. What is the moon?(is it just a light in the night sky) Where is it? (It is not always there and changes to my view) What does it do? (If its there it must have effect, what is its effect). All these questions would be answerable for an objective object.

To some, myself included the moon is just a pretty object in the night sky, that we happened to have walked on.

 

[bobhikes]

Subjectivity should be the objective of our reality, whereas objectivity should be the subject of our existence. Yeah, that the ticket...

@Segev Moran
I'm going to try and translate how I read it.

Our reality is made up of individuals each with there own take on things we need to understand this == Subjectivity should be the objective of our reality

To live we need to do things, thinking about it isn't going to accomplish anything without doing. We need to us what around us for our survival now and not wait or cry about the things we don't have.==Objectivity should be the subject of our existence.

In my opinion at least my best try.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Can you provide an example please? I am not sure what you mean by that.

Once a person thinks, "I need to do the dishes." (Subjective), the (objective) task gets done.

Neurons fire (objective), thought occurs (subjective).

 

[Windwalker]

We all have our subjective reality.
Above all that, we have an objective reality.

subjective reality can be a belief in prayers.
it can be a belief in angels and other non-scientific concepts.

Along the years, humans objective reality became more understood and some subjective realities have been forsaken.

To me it seems, that the more one learns about the objective reality, the better he understand what is objective and what is subjective, and i assume that is why the majority of genuine scientists are atheists (these days).

would you say this suggests that the more we will be able to explain how things work, the less the need for subjective reality will become?

I'd say that is exactly why the more we think we know, the less we do. The more out of touch we are with the subjective, the more dissociated from reality we become.

 

[james bond]

Sounds like you offer to accept any subjective reality.
So if my subjective reality suggests a moon made out of blue cheese, should other consider it as possible?

Bahaha. Is that what subjective means to you? Sounds like you've been listening to too many atheists. Atheists are usually wrong.

Let's say all the astronauts who went to the moon said it was made out of green cheese, not blue. Next, the twenty scientists who examined the material brought back said they found green cheese in part of that which was brought back. This is subjective. What is the truth in this situation?

What's important in looking for the truth is not determining what statements are subjective vs objective, but a cause. The religious say that everything that comes to be must have a cause. It is the first principle of causality. If you look for a cause why the astronauts and scientists were involved, then you may find that one of the reasons for the mission to the moon was to see what it made of, how much oxygen was present and to check on whether it provided any source of food or water. Or if you buy a frozen pizza from the store and leave it in the freezer. The next day, you go to have the pizza but it's half eaten and the leftover is in the fridge. Do you go look to find the objective truth in this situation? No, you look for the cause.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What will you do when one contradicts the other?

Naturally, they do, all the time. So, keep them in their separate containers. Don't try to mix them up.

So if my subjective reality suggests a moon made out of blue cheese, should other consider it as possible?

No cheese there (for sure). We have made bricks out of Moon and Mars sand. Non-existent, like God.

 

[osgart]

subjective reality doesn't tell anyone the moon is green. Being objective about one's subjectivity is rational. but subjectivity itself is truthful. mathematics can be blind too

this everything is an illusion stuff is ridiculous.

objectivity itself is born of subjectivity.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

We all have our subjective reality.
Above all that, we have an objective reality.

subjective reality can be a belief in prayers.
it can be a belief in angels and other non-scientific concepts.

Along the years, humans objective reality became more understood and some subjective realities have been forsaken.

To me it seems, that the more one learns about the objective reality, the better he understand what is objective and what is subjective, and i assume that is why the majority of genuine scientists are atheists (these days).

would you say this suggests that the more we will be able to explain how things work, the less the need for subjective reality will become?

What is important wrt religion in the final analysis is the transcending of the apparent duality of subjective and objective experiences of reality to realize non-dual reality.

 

[james bond]

Naturally, they do, all the time. So, keep them in their separate containers. Don't try to mix them up.
No cheese there (for sure). We have made bricks out of Moon and Mars sand. Non-existent, like God.

View attachment 17135

>>Non-existent, like God.<<

That's a subjective statement in your subjective reality. Can you make it more objective?

 

[james bond]

The word "reality" comes from around 1540 and it describes existence. "Subjective" in relation to existence came later around the 1700s. It means it exists in the mind from Immanuel Kant. So this idea of reality or existence is related to the mind. Yet, it is the mind (memory, remembrance, state of being remembered; thought, purpose; conscious mind, intellect, intention) that can validate or make real that which is an object. So everything exists in the mind. Even the object of our brain exists in our mind. Your mind exists and shows a degree of intelligence if you are reading this and can comprehend. We can study how the brain came to exist, but the brain by itself would not produce a mind. Thus, there must be a cause for the mind and that is... God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

>>Non-existent, like God.<<
That's a subjective statement in your subjective reality. Can you make it more objective?

If I agree to existence of God, will it be objective?

 

[BSM1]

@Segev Moran
I'm going to try and translate how I read it.

Our reality is made up of individuals each with there own take on things we need to understand this == Subjectivity should be the objective of our reality

To live we need to do things, thinking about it isn't going to accomplish anything without doing. We need to us what around us for our survival now and not wait or cry about the things we don't have.==Objectivity should be the subject of our existence.

In my opinion at least my best try.

I like it.

 

[David T]

We all have our subjective reality.
Above all that, we have an objective reality.

subjective reality can be a belief in prayers.
it can be a belief in angels and other non-scientific concepts.

Along the years, humans objective reality became more understood and some subjective realities have been forsaken.

To me it seems, that the more one learns about the objective reality, the better he understand what is objective and what is subjective, and i assume that is why the majority of genuine scientists are atheists (these days).

would you say this suggests that the more we will be able to explain how things work, the less the need for subjective reality will become?

Mother nature is objective we are subjective to that. This is not that hard, it's nearly impossible for us to understand that. I have used a very subjective telelogical term "mother" but I could say logos,tao, physical cosmos etc and they all can be either telelogically expressed emotionally, or telelogically expressed un emotionally "nature as a car engine" and I then could have the fantasy belief that's objective. I could exist in the fantasy of emotional detachment as "objective" but it is religious fanaticism called reductionism its nonsense and call itself "science". Bs bad science and bad religion.

 

[dianaiad]

I would but it sounds a lot better in my head then when I try to write it out.

I understood it just fine. However, my subjective understanding of what he wrote is not translatable into objective terms for the edification of others. It could be that my subjective understanding of the universe is so broad and complete that I am above the ability of all others to grok it as I do.

But probably not.

Suffice it to say that I think that objectivity is just fine, if one is examining what a rock is, how it is formed and what it is 'good for." If you want to think about why it's there, why you think it is beautiful (or ugly) or if you want to consider the affect that rock's presence has on your life, emotionally, spiritually or in day to day decision making, that takes a subjective approach: the search for 'the divine,' in a metaphysical, or romantic, POV.

Here. My new favorite poet:

A Vase
Related Poem Content Details
By Brad Leithauser
There was a vase
that held the world’s riches, but it wasn’t cheap.
It cost a dime — and this in a time and place

when dimes were sizable, especially for
a girl of eight whose construction-worker father
was unemployed. The old metaphor

was literal in this case and she
counted her pennies till there were ten — 
then embarked on a mission of great secrecy,

a purchase whose joys ran so deep,
seventy years later, as she told the tale again,
her face flushed. It was a birthday gift for her mother.


There was a race
of people heretofore glimpsed only on hanging scrolls
in library books. They were on the vase — 

the smallest whole figures imaginable,
purposeful and industrious
as they fished or planted rice or hiked a hill

whose spiral trail led to a temple perched upon
a crag between cloud and waterfall.
They were a vision exported from Japan — 

a country far as the moon, and far more beautiful,
whose artists grasped an eight-year-old girl’s soul’s
need for the minutely amplitudinous.


There was a place
(Detroit, the thirties) now slipped from sight,
though here and there I’ll catch some holdover trace — 

maybe the grille on an old apartment door,
or a slumped block of  houses, draped
in torn sheets of rain, apparently posing for

black-and-white photographs. Even the out-
of-a-job, men like my grandfather, donned hats back then
before leaving the house — to circle endlessly about,

as if a lost job were a lost coin that might
yet be found on the street where it had been dropped,
making them whole again.


There was a face,
rucked with care, that would dreamily soften
if  talk floated off toward some remote someplace

beyond the seas. My grandmother had a yen for the faraway
(which she imparted to her daughter),
even as her life was tethered between a gray

icy motionless Midwestern city — 
stalled like a car with a frozen ignition — 
and a Tennessee farm without electricity.

(She did once see Washington — cherry season — and often
spoke of  those long pink walkways beside the water
that were  Japan’s gift to a grateful nation.)


There is a vase — 
a piece of gimcrack that somehow
made its way to a crowded curio case

in a small souvenir shop
in Detroit, seventy-plus years ago — 
which today stands atop

the mantel in the apartment in DC
where my fading mother is now living.
When she was eight, in 1933,

she gave it to my grandmother, who
for all her poverty bequeathed her daughter so
rich a bounty, including a taste for giving:


the gift of grace.
It seems a little miracle
almost — that it’s intact, the little vase,

conveying what its makers set out to convey:
an inward island spared by Time,
by the times. These days, she can scarcely say

who she gave it to, or on what occasion.
A — birthday? The pilgrim climbs the winding hill
forever, station by station,

and “Isn’t it beautiful?”
she asks. “You bought it for a dime,”
I tell her. It holds the world’s riches still.

........................................................................................................

This is the delineation between objective ( a cheap china painted vase that a child buys for a dime) and subjective (all the important stuff about it).

I don't object to objective. I prefer the subjective in which we perceive the objective. That's where joy lies.

 

[BSM1]

I understood it just fine. However, my subjective understanding of what he wrote is not translatable into objective terms for the edification of others. It could be that my subjective understanding of the universe is so broad and complete that I am above the ability of all others to grok it as I do.

But probably not.

Suffice it to say that I think that objectivity is just fine, if one is examining what a rock is, how it is formed and what it is 'good for." If you want to think about why it's there, why you think it is beautiful (or ugly) or if you want to consider the affect that rock's presence has on your life, emotionally, spiritually or in day to day decision making, that takes a subjective approach: the search for 'the divine,' in a metaphysical, or romantic, POV.

Here. My new favorite poet:

A Vase
Related Poem Content Details
By Brad Leithauser
There was a vase
that held the world’s riches, but it wasn’t cheap.
It cost a dime — and this in a time and place

when dimes were sizable, especially for
a girl of eight whose construction-worker father
was unemployed. The old metaphor

was literal in this case and she
counted her pennies till there were ten — 
then embarked on a mission of great secrecy,

a purchase whose joys ran so deep,
seventy years later, as she told the tale again,
her face flushed. It was a birthday gift for her mother.


There was a race
of people heretofore glimpsed only on hanging scrolls
in library books. They were on the vase — 

the smallest whole figures imaginable,
purposeful and industrious
as they fished or planted rice or hiked a hill

whose spiral trail led to a temple perched upon
a crag between cloud and waterfall.
They were a vision exported from Japan — 

a country far as the moon, and far more beautiful,
whose artists grasped an eight-year-old girl’s soul’s
need for the minutely amplitudinous.


There was a place
(Detroit, the thirties) now slipped from sight,
though here and there I’ll catch some holdover trace — 

maybe the grille on an old apartment door,
or a slumped block of  houses, draped
in torn sheets of rain, apparently posing for

black-and-white photographs. Even the out-
of-a-job, men like my grandfather, donned hats back then
before leaving the house — to circle endlessly about,

as if a lost job were a lost coin that might
yet be found on the street where it had been dropped,
making them whole again.


There was a face,
rucked with care, that would dreamily soften
if  talk floated off toward some remote someplace

beyond the seas. My grandmother had a yen for the faraway
(which she imparted to her daughter),
even as her life was tethered between a gray

icy motionless Midwestern city — 
stalled like a car with a frozen ignition — 
and a Tennessee farm without electricity.

(She did once see Washington — cherry season — and often
spoke of  those long pink walkways beside the water
that were  Japan’s gift to a grateful nation.)


There is a vase — 
a piece of gimcrack that somehow
made its way to a crowded curio case

in a small souvenir shop
in Detroit, seventy-plus years ago — 
which today stands atop

the mantel in the apartment in DC
where my fading mother is now living.
When she was eight, in 1933,

she gave it to my grandmother, who
for all her poverty bequeathed her daughter so
rich a bounty, including a taste for giving:


the gift of grace.
It seems a little miracle
almost — that it’s intact, the little vase,

conveying what its makers set out to convey:
an inward island spared by Time,
by the times. These days, she can scarcely say

who she gave it to, or on what occasion.
A — birthday? The pilgrim climbs the winding hill
forever, station by station,

and “Isn’t it beautiful?”
she asks. “You bought it for a dime,”
I tell her. It holds the world’s riches still.

........................................................................................................

This is the delineation between objective ( a cheap china painted vase that a child buys for a dime) and subjective (all the important stuff about it).

I don't object to objective. I prefer the subjective in which we perceive the objective. That's where joy lies.

What he/she said...