But traditionalist societies all have perfect families!
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Suicide, cowardly?
- Thread starter SomeRandom
- Start date
But traditionalist societies all have perfect families!
In keeping with the o.p. as to whether it's "sin", I don't believe it is. However, I do think there is a huge karmic debt to be paid, for various reasons.
Spirit_Warrior
Active Member
No takers for the subtle body question. It is amazing how little importance we give to the subtle/astral body, though it is the most important/
Anyway
Here is another way to look at it because of our beliefs in reincarnation. Have you played a computer game where you get so far in the game and then you either get killed or you quit, and then you return to the nearest point by reloading from the last point you saved at. Well, what if life is just like a game. You get as far as you can, and then you quit because you made a huge mistake, so you return back to more or less where you quit. Is suicide permissible if you have made a really huge mistake and you know there is no turning back? If you say there is karmic consequence, there might be greater karmic consequences if you continue living after you made a huge mistake, because everything might go downhill from there.
Anyway
Here is another way to look at it because of our beliefs in reincarnation. Have you played a computer game where you get so far in the game and then you either get killed or you quit, and then you return to the nearest point by reloading from the last point you saved at. Well, what if life is just like a game. You get as far as you can, and then you quit because you made a huge mistake, so you return back to more or less where you quit. Is suicide permissible if you have made a really huge mistake and you know there is no turning back? If you say there is karmic consequence, there might be greater karmic consequences if you continue living after you made a huge mistake, because everything might go downhill from there.
Some families suffer from WAY too much pride. I had to call in social services (the government department that helps kids in horrible family situations) once just to get a mother to take her kid for an eye test.
She said, "I have great eyes and so does everyone else in my family. No child of mine would ever need glasses!"
The kid wore glasses once social services threatened to remove the child from the home.
So how in heck can a family like that deal with emotional or psychological disorders?
She said, "I have great eyes and so does everyone else in my family. No child of mine would ever need glasses!"
The kid wore glasses once social services threatened to remove the child from the home.
So how in heck can a family like that deal with emotional or psychological disorders?
There is more than one subtle body ... annamaya kosha, anandamaya kosha, (I may have forgotten the exact words) etc. Pranic body, astral body, atman, etc. So when you suggested that a nuclear bomb might affect the subtle body, which subtle body did you have in mind?
Subtle body - Wikipedia
Spirit_Warrior
Active Member
Hehe, glad you brought that up. I will address this next in my thread. I will just say this much though you are mistaking the sharias for the koshas, though an easy mistake to make!
I'm no scholar, and from what I do know, there are even differing views on the subtle bodies, how many, etc.
Spirit_Warrior
Active Member
That's interesting, if there are differing views, I would like to hear them. I suppose that is to do with how you classify them. Although the main view which I find across the board in Hinduism is there are three bodies(shariras) Gross body, subtle body and causal body. The kosas(coverings or layers) are five and they correspond like this. Gross body((anamaya kosha or food layer) subtle body(pranamaya kosha, manomaya kosha and vijnanamaya kosha, respectively the 5 vital pranas, the discriminating mind and the intellect) and finally the causal body(anandamaya kosha)
I was going to cover this subject in my thread when I discuss the cosmology aspect of Advaita which is basically the Samkhya cosmology all the way up until the causal body(unmanifest prakriti) The metaphysics of Samkhya is very complex but once you understand the logic behind it, it all start to makes sense.
Spirit_Warrior
Active Member
Oh definitely, the whole point is to experience the subtle body. The description is just there for people who have not experienced it, to indicate it exists and what its composition is. I had a huge problem with my peers at the ashram when they were parroting definitions of the subtle body as if they knew what they were talking about lol This is the general mistake among newbies in Advaita, they mistake viveka to be just intellectual understanding, when the real meaning is direct experience of the truths Advaita. You work your way up first experiencing the subtle body(astral projection) by which you learn how to use it and navigate in it in the astral worlds and meet astral beings, some which will be helpful guides to you, it also loosens up your identification with your gross body, removes the fear of death and activiates your dormant powers, which are basically the powers of your subtle body. You learn to sense with your astral senses and operate your astral organs.
Yeah, that makes sense to me.
Personally, I don't really care about subtle bodies, energies, lokas, astral beings, all that. It's part of my experience in the world, but I want to know God. Not explore phenomena.
In the same vein, why is there a need to discuss ANYTHING? Why discuss reincarnation, karma, God, etc.?
Some other ideas are explored here: Subtle body - Wikipedia and if you search on subtle bodies or such, the good old internet has a lot
Solid.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
They may not have perfect families but they manage. We have a saying, 'Ghar mein bartan hain to bajenge hi' (if there are utensils in a house, they will surely clang against each other). That is taken as granted.
Oh, that phalanx of the thumb-sized small person! Subtle body. I have heard about him/her.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
KabirWhere Do You Search Me
Moko Kahan Dhundhere Bande, Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Teerath Mein, Na Moorat Mein, Na Ekant Niwas Mein
Na Mandir Mein, Na Masjid Mein, Na Kabe Kailas Mein
Mein To Tere Paas Mein Bande, ..
Na Mein Jap Mein, Na Mein Tap Mein, Na Mein Barat Upaas Mein
Na Mein Kiriya Karm Mein Rehta, Nahin Jog Sanyas Mein
Mein To Tere Paas Mein Bande, ..
Nahin Pran Mein Nahin Pind Mein, Na Brahmand Akas Mein
Na Mein Prakuti Prawar Gufa Mein, Nahin Swasan Ki Swans Mein
Mein To Tere Paas Mein Bande, ..
Khoji Hoye Turat Mil Jaoon, Ik Pal Ki Talas Mein
Kahet Kabir Suno Bhai Sadho, Mein To Hun Viswas Mein
Mein To Tere Paas Mein Bande, ..
English Translation:
Where do you search me? I am with you
Not in pilgrimage, nor in icons, Neither in solitudes
Not in temples, nor in mosques, Neither in Kaba nor in Kailash
Where do you search me? ..
Not in prayers, nor in meditation, Neither in fasting
Not in yogic exercises, Neither in renunciation
Where do you search me? ..
Neither in the vital force nor in the body, Not even in the ethereal space
Neither in the womb of Nature, Not in the breath of the breath
Where do you search me? ..
Seek earnestly and discover, In but a moment of search
Says Kabir, Listen with care, Where your faith is, I am there.
Where do you search me? ..
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ajay0
Well-Known Member
This is not santhara as it is forbidden for the young.
Jains indulge in 10 day fasts and so on, but this is an extreme step and an aberration out of religious over-enthusiasm and lack of proper understanding. Ignorance is the source of error as well as suffering.
Austerities should be undertaken intelligently only when one possess the necessary strength and vigor for it and the limitations of the body should be understood properly in this regard.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I agree with you, but the Jain would not.See the video of opposition to the call of abolishing 'Santhara'. Also, there is no minimum age when a Jain child (actually his guardian) decide that he/she should become a monk. They think it is better to become a monk in the childhood - start early before you start accumulating karmas.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
There is no need for abolishing santhara for the aged. Veer Savarkar too practiced santhara when he felt that he was not fit enough to do the duties of life due to old age and poor health.
Fasting for long periods should however be strictly prohibited for children and even for youth incapable of doing it due to health reasons as it can aggravate their health issues.
Fasting promotes good health and inner cleansing of the body, and one also meditates better on that account too. But anything in excess is stupid, and so is fasting.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
There is no need for abolishing santhara for the aged. Veer Savarkar too practiced santhara when he felt that he was not fit enough to do the duties of life due to old age and poor health.
Fasting for long periods should however be strictly prohibited for children and even for youth incapable of doing it due to health reasons as it can aggravate their health issues.
Fasting promotes good health and inner cleansing of the body, and one also meditates better on that account too. But anything in excess is stupid, and so is fasting.