• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Superstition vs Faith

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
"Superstition," to me, boils down to trivial habit. Throwing spilled salt over your shoulder, etc.
... or crossing yourself before you do something risky, or putting a mezuzah on your doorframe to protect your home. There are plenty of religious superstitions.

Faith, otoh, has the power to transform lives, be it religious or otherwise. Religion reflects our deepest-held values, expresses our hopes and dreams, and reveals depths of our collective psyche normally hidden.
Not always, IMO.

And historically, the word "superstition" was a term used by Christians to describe non-Christian religious practices. In that regard, I think it's just as appropriate to turn the word around and apply it in the other direction.

I hadn't thought of that, but it is interesting.

To clarify, I was comparing the power of the two... modes, I guess. That superstition is trivial, even to those who hold it, while faith couldn't be further from it.
IMO, superstition is not usually trivial to those who hold it. Some people take their superstitions very seriously.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
And historically, the word "superstition" was a term used by Christians to describe non-Christian religious practices. In that regard, I think it's just as appropriate to turn the word around and apply it in the other direction.
Really? I did not know that.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Well, that does put a new spin on things. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, after all.

I'm not sure it trumps modern connotations, though. Of course, this thread quickly revealed that those connotations are not universal.....
 
"Superstition," to me, boils down to trivial habit. Throwing spilled salt over your shoulder, etc.

Faith, otoh, has the power to transform lives, be it religious or otherwise. Religion reflects our deepest-held values, expresses our hopes and dreams, and reveals depths of our collective psyche normally hidden.

To dismiss these things as mere superstition is incomprehensible to me.

So, how do you understand the words?
It would certainly be a mistake to equate the practice of throwing salt over one's shoulder to the practice of religion.

However, the problem I have with the way you describe "faith" is that this description seems to suggest that faith is inherently a good thing. Consider the crusaders who dropped to their knees and wept when they beheld Jerusalem; the parents who scarred their children emotionally to rid them of demons; the cultists who smiled and celebrated as they offered human sacrifices or drank the cool-ade in order to reach heavenly bliss. For these people, too, religion reflects their "deepest-held values, expresses [their] hopes and dreams, and reveals the depths of our collective psyche".

At the end of the day faith is basically a commitment to a spiritual ideology. Like a commitment to any ideology, this is neutral in itself. It only becomes a "good" thing when people are committed to a "good" ideology. When people are enthusiastic and cheering and raising banners in support of tolerance and free speech, I consider their enthusiasm good; when they're waving swastikas and cheering for the Fuhrer, it's bad. The unique problem with faith is that even when people are committed to a "good" spirituality, they are usually committed for bad reasons when there are good reasons available.

Storm said:
If you're in the habit of equating superstition with religion/ faith, why do you do so?
I wouldn't equate religion with throwing salt over one's shoulder. That would be absurd. But I do sometimes call religion superstition. This is simply because I do not deliberately avoid calling religion superstition.

I have two basic reasons for this. First: because I perceive this as accurate. Here's the definition of superstition from dictionary.com:
–noun
1. a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.
2. a system or collection of such beliefs.
3. a custom or act based on such a belief.
4. irrational fear of what is unknown or mysterious, esp. in connection with religion.
5.any blindly accepted belief or notion.
Second: from a historical perspective, many people are accustomed to referring to the "superstition" of the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Aztecs, Gauls, etc. This is acceptable terminology and people generally know what this means. Of course these ancient religions were more advanced than simple habits such as throwing salt over one's shoulder. But they are rightly called superstitions because, as we all recognize today, the mystical experiences, the visions, the "deepest held values" etc. came out of people's heads, not from demons or gods or other worlds. I choose not to grant special status to the superstitions which happened to have endured the chances of history. Therefore, I do not avoid calling Christianity, Islam, etc. "superstition" since, in the eyes of history and science, the religions of today will be the superstitions of tomorrow. It's unwarranted to make some special distinction between Roman paganism and the Catholic Church, as if the world was somehow destined to ponder the legitimate mysteries of the Trinity, but the mystical properties of the dodecahedron celebrated by the neo-Platonists were rightly disregarded as "superstitious" nonsense. Referring to modern-day religions as superstitions is a reminder to consider the long perspective of science and history; and also, to consider how complex and persuasive the ancient religions were.
 
Last edited:

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
At the end of the day faith is basically a commitment to a spiritual ideology. Like a commitment to any ideology, this is neutral in itself. It only becomes a "good" thing when people are committed to a "good" ideology.
The rest of your points have been raised by others over the course of the thread, but this is a good one.

It was not my intention to say that faith is always good, only qualitatively different from superstition. I'm reconsidering that last bit. :)
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
Shameless bump.

Superstition seems to boil down to trying to escape the natural order of things. For example, avoiding black cats to avert misfortune, or praying for rain.

I am reminded of Skinner's experiment with pigeons. He gave them a reward at random intervals and the pigeons repeated what they had been doing before the reward in hopes of another reward. He even called the phenomenon superstition.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Superstition seems to boil down to trying to escape the natural order of things. For example, avoiding black cats to avert misfortune, or praying for rain.

I am reminded of Skinner's experiment with pigeons. He gave them a reward at random intervals and the pigeons repeated what they had been doing before the reward in hopes of another reward. He even called the phenomenon superstition.
Do you see that as distinct from faith? Why or why not?
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
No, not really. I'd appreciate effort a hell of a lot more than soundbites.

That is how I see it, and I think Carlin's observation of how people see their own stuff versus how they see other peoples stuff is spot on. Watch the video and replace the word stuff with faith or ideas or anything that we consider belonging to or of us.

I call my own superstitions faith and don't really have a problem with other's pointing out the fact that they are indeed superstitions. Its the motivation to demean or insult that I find offensive, not the content.

Of course all this is reliant on the fact that I believe all faiths or superstitions are equally valid. All are imperfect perceptions of that which lies outside our ability to comprehend. So for me, all are superstitions and all are faiths.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
That is how I see it, and I think Carlin's observation of how people see their own stuff versus how they see other peoples stuff is spot on. Watch the video and replace the word stuff with faith or ideas or anything that we consider belonging to or of us.

I call my own superstitions faith and don't really have a problem with other's pointing out the fact that they are indeed superstitions. Its the motivation to demean or insult that I find offensive, not the content.

Of course all this is reliant on the fact that I believe all faiths or superstitions are equally valid. All are imperfect perceptions of that which lies outside our ability to comprehend. So for me, all are superstitions and all are faiths.
OK, but please don't attribute it to me - that's just annoying. I have an entirely different perspective, and I think the question is worth exploring.
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
OK, but please don't attribute it to me - that's just annoying. I have an entirely different perspective, and I think the question is worth exploring.

Of course. I thought your intent was to see the question from multiple perceptions and I offered mine. Exploration is the most wondrous part of humanity.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Maybe faith is just expecting that the rituals etc will actually work and the natural order will be suspended for one's own benefit.
Mmmmmm....

Maybe in some cases, but that's certainly not what I was talking about.

Annnnnnnnd, I just realized I never defined faith myself. :eek:

Faith, to me is a certain depth of trust, not a particular type or object of belief.
 
Top