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Supreme Court Upholds Affordable Care Act

F1fan

Veteran Member
I don't see the Democrats helping out the common worker lately. Or am I wrong?
Well if the Democrats had the sole majority they would. Unfortunately the Senate is designed in such a way that Democrats cannot do what they want. So whatever happens is whatever Democrats can persuade a few republicans to agree with. And that is less and less likely any more.
 

Friend of Mara

Active Member
In a 7-2 ruling SCOTUS upheled the Affordable Care Act better known as Obama Care.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-up

To all those Democrats that feared President Trumps appointments to the Supreme Court would result in rulings that would be far right, it appers you have been wrong.
Simply because it isn't unconstitutional. I'm not surprised. Removing Obama's legacy after a one term president wouldn't really have the same hit ya know?
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
You must mean which party is open and tells it like it is upfront , and the other party tells you what you want to hear, and then stabs you in the back behind closed and locked doors.
? Always a conspiracy theory. Always some bizarre suspicion based on nothing.

Everyone knows which party lies to stay in power. If people had more sense, the party would die off already.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Nobody is "helping the common worker" in a capitalist system.

As Brecht had put it so well, "the liberation of the working class is the worker's job alone."
I'm curious. What besides a capital based system works?

Every form of government relies on capitalism globally.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I'm curious. What besides a capital based system works?

Every form of government relies on capitalism globally.
Capitalism can only work if balanced with Socialism. We can look at what occurred during the Industrial Revolution at what suffering unregulated Capitalism causes.

This is why the USA and most all other first world nations are a mix of Capitalism and Socialism.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
Capitalism can only work if balanced with Socialism. We can look at what occurred during the Industrial Revolution at what suffering unregulated Capitalism causes.

This is why the USA and most all other first world nations are a mix of Capitalism and Socialism.
Socialism means worker's control over the means of production, which largely does not exist anywhere in the world today.
To call Western capitalism "a mix of capitalism and socialism" when at the most it's capitalism with a handful of minimal welfare measures to ensure people aren't literally starving on the streets (as that would likely decrease urban property values) is more than a little inaccurate in light of that - and furthermore, as wealth inequality has massively risen over the last decades, it has become less and less true over time.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
False equivalence.
Democrats and Republicans are not the same when it comes to economic policies.
They're not the same when it comes to inclusion either.

Far too many people like to paint Democrats as just as corrupt as Republicans. (Facebook feed victims).
Couldn't be further from the truth.

GOP = Greed Over People

NAFTA's Impact on Employment - FactCheck.org
Like it or not, both of them enact economic policy that favors the wealthiest of Americans and largest of corporations. Dems more push for more pro-worker stuff, but it's not really anything that's going to change the system that lead to what we have. They'll still see us working longer and our children receiving subpar education to keep things as they are.
With Dems, it's best summarized with Juneteenth being a federal holiday rather than national holiday. It's a nice gesture (not really because it's Uncle Sam patting himself on the back), but ultimately a gesture that doesn't give many black people the day off. Not many places close for a federal holiday. That's the Dems economic policy. Nice gestures that don't actually accomplish much to address the problem.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Think there will be a next time?
Been lots of them.
"Einstein's biggest blunder" is all the evidence we need to definitely know even our brightest and best can be stubborn arselings when accepting they are wrong, it's not the end of the world, it's not the end of a career, we all make mistakes and the world still moves on anyways.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Socialism means worker's control over the means of production, which largely does not exist anywhere in the world today.
I digress. Today, socialism is the government taking over what you own as if they are the ones who own it, and dictating what you can and cannot do with your property and belongings.

There is certainly a control over means and production, that undoubtedly exists, and its quite obvious the spector of socialism looms heavily with the leftists as they continue to strip people of their ability to control their property and person.

We all know who the 'workers' are and it's certainly not you or me
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Socialism means worker's control over the means of production, which largely does not exist anywhere in the world today.
To call Western capitalism "a mix of capitalism and socialism" when at the most it's capitalism with a handful of minimal welfare measures to ensure people aren't literally starving on the streets (as that would likely decrease urban property values) is more than a little inaccurate in light of that - and furthermore, as wealth inequality has massively risen over the last decades, it has become less and less true over time.
If you're going to split hairs there's no pure Capitalism, either. The closest we got was the Industrial Revolution and that was a moral disaster. Really there's no ideal or absolute economic philosophy that anyone follows. There is always flux in social and economic dynamics and solutions have to adapt. What is applied is a mix of select ideas in idealistic economic philiosophies.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I digress. Today, socialism is the government taking over what you own as if they are the ones who own it, and dictating what you can and cannot do with your property and belongings.

There is certainly a control over means and production, that undoubtedly exists, and its quite obvious the spector of socialism looms heavily with the leftists as they continue to strip people of their ability to control their property and person.

We all know who the 'workers' are and it's certainly not you or me
Good thing no one is suggesting this.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Suggesting? It's already happening.
Really? Tell the group which government is "taking over what we own".

In Capitalism the control for the means of production is a social phenomenon. Company X can produce their products and pay workers very little, but then have the dilemma that not enough of the public can afford their product. For Capitalism to work there has to be a viable market to sell. Competition only goes so far if the public has limited resources. So the balance comes with a governing organization that can set minimum wages, benefits, rules for workers, etc. These are the social benefits that actually help Capitalism function.

So I'm curious what you mean by:

There is certainly a control over means and production, that undoubtedly exists, and its quite obvious the spector of socialism looms heavily with the leftists as they continue to strip people of their ability to control their property and person.
What property and person is being infringed upon in your view, and why is it a problem for society as a whole? I ask assuming you accept social contract theory and that individual rights in a society must be compromised for the society the individual relies on to exist and function.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Like it or not, both of them enact economic policy that favors the wealthiest of Americans and largest of corporations. Dems more push for more pro-worker stuff, but it's not really anything that's going to change the system that lead to what we have. They'll still see us working longer and our children receiving subpar education to keep things as they are.
With Dems, it's best summarized with Juneteenth being a federal holiday rather than national holiday. It's a nice gesture (not really because it's Uncle Sam patting himself on the back), but ultimately a gesture that doesn't give many black people the day off. Not many places close for a federal holiday. That's the Dems economic policy. Nice gestures that don't actually accomplish much to address the problem.
It seems to me that Democrats do use these types of things politically. But I say that because there's a need to advance these holidays and policies because republicans want to ignore these embarrassing parts of USA history. In the balance it's a more moral thing to help acknowledge black citizens and their ongoing plight against the strong undercurrent of racism that exists.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I digress. Today, socialism is the government taking over what you own as if they are the ones who own it, and dictating what you can and cannot do with your property and belongings.
Where?
And ever read the Terms of Usage for electronic stuff? Private corporations are clamping down on that to a far greater extent than anyone else. Uncle Sam, after all, isn't suing farmers for altering the programming of their tractors that the farmers did purchase with their own money.
 

Suave

Simulated character
In a 7-2 ruling SCOTUS upheled the Affordable Care Act better known as Obama Care.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-up

To all those Democrats that feared President Trumps appointments to the Supreme Court would result in rulings that would be far right, it appers you have been wrong.

I'd consider Medicare for All, not the A.C.A., to be an essential public service needed in order for most everybody to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. Universal health insurance is less costly compared with the free-market system of private health insurance. Universal health insurance eliminates unnecessary competition. Single payer health insurance lowers administrative expenses. Everybody being covered by health insurance improves the health of workers and children, this will boost our economy and save lives. Please let urge our Congressional representatives to repeal the A.C.A. and replace this with Medicare for All!
 
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Suave

Simulated character
Yes the whole point about insurance is that it is collective pooling of risk. You do not want people whining that they have to pay for someone who has got diabetes through being a greedy pig, or who got head injures from riding a motorbike carelessly. Once you start nickel and diming it, you lose the whole benefit of the principle of insurance.

"Insurers are like bookies. They don’t want to pick a side; they just want to make their profit off the top. They want a nice even distribution of risks with a big risk pool; that’s when insurance works best. When people wander off the street and say “Hey, I want insurance” insurers aren’t happy, because they’re not sure what they can predict about that person. Insurance only works well when there are large, well integrated pools of individuals who come together not on basis of health but the basis of something else, like where they work. The fundamental problem in the United States is that the pooling mechanism doesn’t work for individuals who can’t get workplace insurance. About two-thirds of the uninsured don’t get offered insurance at work, so they have to go to the non-group market, which is a harsh, unforgiving place to try to buy health insurance. Since it’s not pooled, the prices can be high, variable, and most importantly, unpredictable. You can be fine buying non-group insurance for ten years; then one day you get cancer and the insurance carrier just yanks your non-group insurance away or raises your premiums through the roof."

https://surface.syr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=cpr
 
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