Takfiriyin (terrorists )

[Godobeyer]

For a long time i was hesitate to post this thread , but i found it's the time now , when i met with some takfiriyin in this forum .

btw :takfiriyin تكفيرين it's arabic labbel , it's root is Kafir كافر , which mean "whom make/call the others kufaar (non-muslims) "

they accuse (considerate ) ALL other muslims sects as non-muslims , they should convert them OR eliminate them, , 'cos they had diffenet teaching of Islam , or they did not practice Islam as well !!!

So they had no problem to kill non-muslim ,becaue of his/her beliefs ...etc

this strange (extrem ) ideology in muslim world , spread and supported by some FAMOUS BAD muslims scholars .

I considerate this issue as the main problem in muslim world right now .

the muslims killing each other in Afganistan ,pakistan , Iraq , Syria , Lebonon , libya , Turkey.....etc ; BECAUSE of this way of teaching and thinking .

So do you have any comments ?

 

[Assad91]

Considering the countries you name, I guess sunni takfiri and shia takfiri are just widespread. Or maybe you oversimplify very complex social problems by writing it off on some weird fad.

Are there takfiri muslims? Yes. Are they as widespread and the root of the problems you've mentioned? Not at all.

If you'd like we can have an indepth conversation on these countries one at a time. I'd be glad to.

But first, I'd like to remind you of history and how the sectarian fight between extreme sunni and extreme shia is very long and bloody. And too attribute it to takfiri sect would be to disregard history as takfiri/salafi/wahhabi/madkhali/whatever are all relatively new.

 

[dynavert2012]

it's very bad problem, as they are not saying only that other Muslims are kafir but they also use weapons against them

 

[Godobeyer]

it's very bad problem, as they are not saying only that other Muslims are kafir but they also use weapons against them

yes it is
they make the blood of the muslim and non-muslims HALLAL , so Allah will reward them and maybe who support them by the HELL for ever .

وَمَن يَقۡتُلۡ مُؤۡمِنً۬ا مُّتَعَمِّدً۬ا فَجَزَآؤُهُ ۥ جَهَنَّمُ خَـٰلِدً۬ا فِيہَا وَغَضِبَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيۡهِ وَلَعَنَهُ ۥ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُ ۥ عَذَابًا عَظِيمً۬ا (٩٣&#65279


4-92 Alnussa
92) Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom. (93)

 

[Anonymousss]

Hmm may I ask you some questions? When does a person become a muslim? Simply by saying la ilaha illa Allah? Or does that person have to do something else?

 

[egcroc]

sorry, after reading the rules I found out this part of the forum is not meant for debating... if muslims are offended by the previous post I'll happily delete it at once

 

[Union]

@Anonymousss, actually what you say comprises only the first half of the basic islamic faith; I had no problem with this half, that's why I'm now a deist rather than outright atheist, the sceond half, however, is the belief that muhammad is the messenger of god (Muhammadun Rasulu Allah), and this is the half I had my problem with... a quick read through the Sirah (Muhammad's Biography from islamic point of view) and many of his hadiths in the Sunnah will show you a man whose morality and actions are questionable at best....

Now back on topic, the Takfirists and Salafists in General come #1 on the list of Reasons why I left Islam, someone would say their actions are wrong and do not represent Islam, and that brings the next question; did these people like come up with some different Islam?!!, isn't it a fact that all they are actually trying to do is return to the original unaltered version of Islam which fits the hateful violent nature of these people, isn't it a fact that all the bloody texts they use to commit their crimes are there in the islamic books which other 'moderate' normal muslims are either ignorant of or try to sweep under the rug and pretend that islam is all love and peace and gombaya?

just an example, a few months ago there was a very heated debate here in Egypt because one islamic parliament member was offering a law to reduce the minimum age for female marriage to 9 years old, did this guy just make up that number, wasn't he just inspired by the fact that Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and had intercourse with her when she was 9? and there are many other examples for people to dig up form these books and even the Quran itself..

I'm sorry if my above words seemed a little harsh but I just feel angry every time I think I wasted 23 years in my life in this religion...

:camp:
Peace,

You better separate Islam generated from Hadith and Islam generated from Qur'an . The first one was created by Imams and Muhaddits and the later one was created by Almighty GOD ALLAH .

 

[egcroc]

You better separate Islam generated from Hadith and Islam generated from Qur'an . The first one was created by Imams and Muhaddits and the later one was created by Almighty GOD ALLAH .

Greetings Union, I did try that approach but what I found in the Quran was not so pretty either, besides how can you know the nature and origin of the Quran without a parallel study of the character who claims to whom it was revealed? doesn't make sense right?

 

[Union]

Hmm may I ask you some questions? When does a person become a muslim? Simply by saying la ilaha illa Allah? Or does that person have to do something else?

Hi . Please refer to the following link in DIR Quranist section of RF :
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/quranist-dir/153486-how-become-muslim-submitter.html#post3481431

 

[egcroc]

Hi . Please refer to the following link in DIR Quranist section of RF

so you're a quranist?!! that's cool... I never really understood how the quranists understand islam without the sunnah or the sirah... I'd like to have a conversation one day with you about this issue

 

[Union]

Greetings Union, I did try that approach but what I found in the Quran was not so pretty either, besides how can you know the nature and origin of the Quran without a parallel study of the character who claims to whom it was revealed? doesn't make sense right?

Peace unto you . Hadith was created about +/- 200 years after the Qur'an , hence it is illogical to judge the Qur'an through the Hadith . Moreover Hadith writers were not eye-witness of the Prophet nor heard from any of his companions . Hence the myth of Chinese whispers goes on...

 

[Assad91]

lol@ takfiris&salafist practicing an "unaltered islam"

Now that is the joke of the day.

 

[egcroc]

lol@ takfiris&salafist practicing an "unaltered islam"

Now that is the joke of the day.

Greetings Assad, Can you tell me your idea of "unaltered islam"?

Peace,

 

[Assad91]

Greetings Assad, Can you tell me your idea of "unaltered islam"?

Peace,

Not whatever bald ugly Saudi state sponsored Shaykhs teach.

 

[egcroc]

Peace unto you . Hadith was created about +/- 200 years after the Qur'an , hence it is illogical to judge the Qur'an through the Hadith . Moreover Hadith writers were not eye-witness of the Prophet nor heard from any of his companions . Hence the myth of Chinese whispers goes on...

sure your argument makes sense, but you still haven't answered my previous question, besides how do you know the Quran wasn't altered as well? muslims believe the bible is an altered and distorted version of the original 2 books, if god did not protect his word the first 2 times, why should he protect it the 3rd time?

 

[egcroc]

Not whatever bald ugly Saudi state sponsored Shaykhs teach.

I agree with you on that one, but then again all those baldies are doing is dig up the old texts, they have no sense of innovation whatsoever

Peace,

 

[Assad91]

I agree with you on that one, but then again all those baldies are doing is dig up the old texts, they have no sense of innovation whatsoever

Peace,

Thats all they are is an innovation. The text the rely upon the most is that from Muhammad Ibn AbdWahab and Ibn Taymiya. Their methodology is false, and their new definition of bida is false.

There is plenty of threads here debunking their crap and many websites.
Maybe you should read up buddy. Cause I once was fooled to by their slogans and nonsense. You want, I can pm you some links or make a thread

 

[egcroc]

Thats all they are is an innovation. The text the rely upon the most is that from Muhammad Ibn AbdWahab and Ibn Taymiya. Their methodology is false, and their new definition of bida is false.

now wait a minute here, I was not talking about those guys, I'm speaking of much older texts that make up the bedrock of islamic beliefs, including the quran itself, as for those guys you mentioned, the disgusting ideas of their books keep manifesting everyday in front of our eyes, and I used to read for them for quite a while and even believed them, but again all they say is just Copy-Paste from the old texts...

There is plenty of threads here debunking their crap and many websites.
Maybe you should read up buddy. Cause I once was fooled to by their slogans and nonsense. You want, I can pm you some links or make a thread

sure no problem, if you have anything to send me you're welcome to, but hopefully not too long books as I have little time, I prefer brief books with concentrated dose, but I'm telling you I already read for them and was even fooled by them just like you

 

[Assad91]

sure no problem, if you have anything to send me you're welcome to, but hopefully not too long books as I have little time, I prefer brief books with concentrated dose, but I'm telling you I already read for them and was even fooled by them just like you

Fooled till I woke up and became Shia

I'll send you some links then from sunni and shia that debunk such foolishness as supposedly being wahhabu unaltered islam

 

[egcroc]

Fooled till I woke up and became Shia

shia?!! thanks but no thanks :sarcastic... I've nothing against it in particular, my problem is with the abrahamic religions in general...

:camp:
Peace,