Takfiriyin (terrorists )

[Godobeyer]

I do agree with you in this case , if, Ya ALLAH Madad = Ya ali madad , then Shia makes ALLAH=ali .

I don't know how they understand this "calling"

so if they did equal Allah to Ali in deity , that they maybe made them sinners , so Allah forgive them and guide us to his right way .

 

[illykitty]

Mohamed says that muslims will be divided into 73 sects all of them are going to hell except one

Hi! Sorry if it isn't my place to comment but isn't hell, at least in this case, not eternal? Also, not everyone interprets the punishments literally. Some say it's soul cleansing, torment of being away from God, etc.

But I see where you're coming from, I have many many questions and doubts about Islam, even with Qur'an only methods.

 

[Anonymousss]

Takfiri nonsense.

Sure, if you say so. You must have been with me when I was talking to the shia's and know everything right? Because from what you say it seems like you do.

 

[Anonymousss]

I don't know how they understand this "calling"

so if they did equal Allah to Ali in deity , that they maybe made them sinners , so Allah forgive them and guide us to his right way .

This "calling" is one of the 8 forms of shirk akbar. Clearly you are not informed well on this matter which is obliged for a muslim because it is part of tawheed. This "calling" is shirk ud-Du'aa(shirk in invocation). I advice you to gain knowledge on the subject tawheed because it is the first and most important pillar of islam.

 

[Anonymousss]

Actually I just skipped the Quranist phase, it really doesn't make sense to me to believe in a book without knowing all about its origin, its author and the environment and circumstances in which it was written, sure the Sunnah and Sirah are messed up, but they remain the best historical record we have on this time period...

Moreover as I said before, I did not find the quran to be any more pleasant than these books, you got many verses that promote hatred and violence, creation stories that do not make any more sense than the genesis (myabe because they're quite the same), but the most disturbing thing I found in the Quran is the constant threat of eternal punishment and burning in Hell, you find verses speaking about hell, punishment, torture..etc. in almost every chapter and mybe I'm not exaggerating if I say every page or few pages, some of them are quite graphic... why is that? and it's not only for pagans or atheists, it's also for jews and christians who believe in him but they just happened to be born in the wrong family and taught to worship him the wrong way, add to that also muslims who believe in god and mohamed but were born in the wrong sect... you know there's a verse that says the majority of mankind will never believe and god shall send them all to hell, does this sound fair to you?!!!

Mohamed says that muslims will be divided into 73 sects all of them are going to hell except one, so an average man's chance to go to heaven is already less than 20% if he's a muslim, divide that by 73 and you got a probablity of approximately 1:300 to go to heaven, add to that another hadith about god telling adam on judgement day to bring forth 999 out of each thousand of his offspring to go to hell and you'll find out we're already screwed up big time...:sad4:

sorry my friend, I just couldn't live with that, religion is supposed to be about spirituality, inner as well as external peace and feeling connected to a great loving power, not being a subordinate feeling constantly scared and threatened form unimaginable brutal punishment...

:camp:
Peace,

Ok, lets take an example, the mother of a young child does not want her child to steal. So every day she warns him about the consequence of stealing, which in this example is that he will land in jail. The more the mother warns her son about the consequences of stealing the more concerned the mother is right? And doesn't it also tells the son how sever the punishment really is? Unless the child has experienced this punishment before.

Allah does not want us to face this awful punishment of hell so Allah keeps warning us not to do bad deeds. Bear in mind that it is not Allah who depends on the people but it is the people that depend on Allah. By warning us a lot we should realize the severity of this punishment and strive to live a good life. Furthermore, the Quran does not only exists of warnings but there are also a lot of parts where Allah mentions the reward one will getthat has lived a good life.

All of those warnings are there to make our faith in Allah stronger. As illykitty said every muslim is eventually going to the paradise. Some muslims might be thrown into hellfire for the sins that they have committed and then they may enter paradise but Allah knows best. You should not only pay specific attention to the amount of warnings in the Quran and neglect other parts of it but you should read it with an open mind. Don't give up after reading only one chapter but try and finish the whole Quran. You can't judge a book without reading it right?

Finally, I wanna share this hadith with you.

Mu'adh bin Jabal (radiallahu anhu) reported: "I was o*nce riding behind the Prophet o*n a donkey, when he said to me: 'Do you know what Allah's right over His slave is and what the slave's right over Allah is? I said: 'Allah and His Messenger knows best.' He (alayhi salatul wasalaam) said: 'Allah's right over His slaves is that they worship Him and not associate anything with Him (in worship). And the right the slaves have over Allah is that He doesn't punish the o*ne who doesn't associate something with Him (in worship).' I said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Shall I not give the people the good tidings of this?' He said: 'Do not inform them for they will rely (solely) o*n it." [Reported by al-Bukhari (Book of Dresses, #5967), Muslim (Book of Faith: 48-51,53), At-Tirmidhi (Book of Faith, 2643, (5/26)), Ibn Majah (Book of Aseceticsim: 4269, (12/1435)), and Ahmad (3/260-261)]

 

[Assad91]

The real shirk akbar is the anthropomorphic tendency of takfiri wahhabi.

 

[egcroc]

Ok, lets take an example, the mother of a young child does not want her child to steal. So every day she warns him about the consequence of stealing, which in this example is that he will land in jail. The more the mother warns her son about the consequences of stealing the more concerned the mother is right? And doesn't it also tells the son how sever the punishment really is? Unless the child has experienced this punishment before.

Allah does not want us to face this awful punishment of hell so Allah keeps warning us not to do bad deeds. Bear in mind that it is not Allah who depends on the people but it is the people that depend on Allah. By warning us a lot we should realize the severity of this punishment and strive to live a good life. Furthermore, the Quran does not only exists of warnings but there are also a lot of parts where Allah mentions the reward one will getthat has lived a good life.

All of those warnings are there to make our faith in Allah stronger. As illykitty said every muslim is eventually going to the paradise. Some muslims might be thrown into hellfire for the sins that they have committed and then they may enter paradise but Allah knows best. You should not only pay specific attention to the amount of warnings in the Quran and neglect other parts of it but you should read it with an open mind. Don't give up after reading only one chapter but try and finish the whole Quran. You can't judge a book without reading it right?

Finally, I wanna share this hadith with you.

Mu'adh bin Jabal (radiallahu anhu) reported: "I was o*nce riding behind the Prophet o*n a donkey, when he said to me: 'Do you know what Allah's right over His slave is and what the slave's right over Allah is? I said: 'Allah and His Messenger knows best.' He (alayhi salatul wasalaam) said: 'Allah's right over His slaves is that they worship Him and not associate anything with Him (in worship). And the right the slaves have over Allah is that He doesn't punish the o*ne who doesn't associate something with Him (in worship).' I said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Shall I not give the people the good tidings of this?' He said: 'Do not inform them for they will rely (solely) o*n it." [Reported by al-Bukhari (Book of Dresses, #5967), Muslim (Book of Faith: 48-51,53), At-Tirmidhi (Book of Faith, 2643, (5/26)), Ibn Majah (Book of Aseceticsim: 4269, (12/1435)), and Ahmad (3/260-261)]

hello there Anonymousss, sure I can understand the concept of punishment for crimes and offences, but I can't get the point of punishing someone for eternity for not believing in God or believing in him the wrong way...

the idea of hell has always been one of the most disturbing sides of Abrahamic religions to me... on the the other side of the world, the Indian religions (hinduism, Buddhism...etc.) have an entirely different concept for punishment, it's called Karma, what goes around comes around, you get your fair share of punishment for your bad deeds and then the balance is restored, no need for you to get infinite torment for a finite offence, and another thing, belief-related matters are not considered as bad deeds, you're free to believe what you want to believe, there's no such thing in indian religions such as heresy, blasphemy, apostasy... etc. these silly irrational offences only exist in Abrahamic religions...

:camp:
Peace,

 

[Union]

hello there Anonymousss, sure I can understand the concept of punishment for crimes and offences, but I can't get the point of punishing someone for eternity for not believing in God or believing in him the wrong way...

the idea of hell has always been one of the most disturbing sides of Abrahamic religions to me... on the the other side of the world, the Indian religions (hinduism, Buddhism...etc.) have an entirely different concept for punishment, it's called Karma, what goes around comes around, you get your fair share of punishment for your bad deeds and then the balance is restored, no need for you to get infinite torment for a finite offence, and another thing, belief-related matters are not considered as bad deeds, you're free to believe what you want to believe, there's no such thing in indian religions such as heresy, blasphemy, apostasy... etc. these silly irrational offences only exist in Abrahamic religions...

:camp:
Peace,

In Islam the offense of Shirk , meaning associating with GOD is unpardonable , hence there is no other way to get rid of the punishment of hell for committing the offense . As per the Qur’an :

[004:048] Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.

Apart from this type of offense , any other crime can be pardonable from GOD , of course as per the degree of his/her crime he/she may suffer . But the concept of eternal punishment in hell is not from Qur’an , may be from common beliefs . Please look at following verses of Qur’an that if ALLAH(swt) wills , HE may can exempt somebody from this punishment :

[006:128] And on the Day when He will gather them (all) together (and say): "O you assembly of jinns! Many did you mislead of men," and their Auliya (friends and helpers, etc.) amongst men will say: "Our Lord! We benefited one from the other, but now we have reached our appointed term which You did appoint for us." He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling place, you will dwell therein forever, except as Allah may will. Certainly your Lord is AllWise, AllKnowing."

[011:106] So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them shall be sighing and groaning in it:
[011:107] Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends.

 

[Godobeyer]

for my opinion tafirin whom are :

-bombing and killing in Iraq ,Syria and Libya , and Egypt now
- whom allow suicide bomb and see it Halal .
- whom call or considerate only them selfs Muslims even if they (other sects) made Shahada.
-whom have no problem to kill any muslim or non-muslim did not accept their own belief .

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

Whilst we're on the subject of ( Terrorism , despite the current hysteria surrounding the threat of Islamic Extremism ) , it should be pointed out that So-called '' Islamic Terrorism '' is a relatively recent Phenomenon , not even ( Sanctioned by the Holy Koran ) , but a concept ( introduced to Islam by Non-Muslims ) .

Others have perpetrated and indeed ( perfected Terrorism long before Muslims later embraced this diabolical , contemptible and cowardly ideology ) . as far back as the 17th Century , Terrorist acts are documented to have been carried out by Non -Muslim namely ; Jewish ( Zionist ) , European ( White Supremacist ) and Irish ( Nationalist ) groups .

The first ever recorded act of Terrorism in history was carried out by Jewish / Zionist extremists against British forces in Jerusalem following the 2nd World War . The concept of '' Suicide '' as a tactic of Warfare , first originated with the Japanese '' Kamikaze '' or Devine Wind '' , against the American's in the Pacific , during the Second World War .

Whilst the actual use of Terrorism ie; the ''Indiscriminate Murder of Civilians for Political motives was actually perfected by the Zionlist / Israeli fanatics immediately after the Second World War . The following is a brief list of Non - Muslims Terrorist group's and some of their worst recorded '' Terrorist '' atrocities ;

1 ) . Irgun Zvei ( Jewish ) ; July 22nd 1946 , Zionist Milutants Detonate an Explosive device at the King David Hotel , Jerusalem , Killing ( 91 Innocent British & Arab Men , Women & Children .

2 ) . Stern Gang ( Jewish ) ; September 17th 1948 , Swedish United Nations medoator to Palestine , Count Folke Bernadotte is assasinated in Jerusalem by Zionist extremists in cold blood .

3 ) . Klu Klux Klan ( American ) September 15 , 1963 , Kian members detonate an explosive device at the 16th street Baptist Churcgh , Birmingham , Alabama , during Children's Bible Class , Killing four Afican American School Grils .

4 ) . Baader -Meinhof Gang aka 'The red army ( German ) , April 7th 1977 , State & Federal prosecutor Siegfried Buback and his driver were assasinated in Germany by Red Army member in Cold Blood .

5 ) . Red Brigade ( Italian ) May 9th 1978 , members of Red Brigade Murder Italian Prime Minster Aldo Moro , after Kidnapping him in Italy two months earlier .

6 ) . Ulster Volunteer Force aka U.V.F. ( Irish ) May 7th , 1974 , Three car bombs are detonated in Dublin , Ireland , ( Killing 35 Innocent Civilians .

7 ) . ETA ( Spanish ) June 19th , 1987 , Basque Separatist Militans ETA , Detonate an expolosive device in Hipercor shopping mall , in Barcelona , ( Killing 21 , and injuring 45 Innocent Civilians .

8 ) . Irish Republican army aka IRA ( Irish ) January 17th , 1992 , members IRA detonate an explosive device in Omagh , Northern island ( Killing 30 Inncents Civilians ) .

9 ) . Aryan Nation ( American ) April 19th , 1995 White Supremacists lead by Timothy McVaigh Detonate explosive device at Federal Building Okalahoma city , ( Killing 168 Inncent Civilians .

In fact it would be Accurate to say that Many of the Tactics and Strategies employed by ( European Terrorist groups , such as ( Kidnapping , Murder , Assassination , Bombings & Arson ) have only been Mimicked or Copied relatively recently by Islamic Terrorist movements from the numerous Nationalist , White -Supremacist & Zionist Terrorist organisation listed above .

Hopefully those who read this post won't take it as an Attack on ( Anyone ) . Because it not meant to be .

 

[Matemkar]

Salam.. I think the topic here is takfirism, but if you have questions on the beliefs of islamic denominations; such as shia, sunni, sufi, ahmadi or "quranists", then please ask them in the related subforums..

As for the original post by brother Godobeyer, I agree.. Unfortunately, it is the biggest problem we have today..

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Who are the Takfiris? - Analysis of Wahabi and Salafis