Teacher accidentally fires gun in classroom, students injured

[Revoltingest]

I will challenge that. Provide citations, please.

Read this,
No, There Haven't Been 18 School Shootings This Year — Not Even Close

By the reasoning of that group, Everytown For Gun Safety,
my high school had hundreds of shootings per week.
The school rifle team had a range in the school's basement.
(Target shooting was a lot safer than football & wrestling.)

 

[esmith]

Yes, I've been in stores with F/E doors. Is that kind of door, with tower bolts and push-handle, with shuntable alarm circuit.... what you think will suit your schools?
Surely that's what they have now?
I'm talking about a very much higher level of security than that.

I do not know what each school in the US has, and as a matter of fact I don't know about any schools. If I was in the security business and contracted to do site surveys then I would, but again only the schools I was contracted to do.

You didn't know? There have been 50 school shootings in the US inside of 14 months.


They were all major ones. When folks are shot dead in schools, it's major. Yes?
And that is very woolly..... 'through front or other access doors' is woolly info. But your sentence shows that schools need to have one main access point through which all visits are controlled.
......'other access doors'...... !!!!!!!! dreadful.

No, I do not consider every incident a "major" incident. However, the only ones that I think that can be addressed are the ones that occur within a building or in a area that has controlled access like a stadium.
And I will have to disagree with your figures very strongly.
List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

Yes...... you're repeating my point that 'each school is unique'.

I though that we could both learn and progress from each other's posts. A discussion.
Maybe we still can?

So far I cannot see that US schools have safe access-control systems or policies in place. 'Other access doors'. My Goodness.

No, as far as I know the US does not have schools secured. The main reason is that it is, as I said before, easier to place blame on the instrument vice looking a the underlying cause and putting procedures and policies in place to address the issue. It is my opinion that firearms will always be available within the US for many years to come. Therefore those that think they can solve the problem by removing the instrument will be the cause of more bodies piling up.

 

[Shaul]

By the reasoning of that group, Everytown For Gun Safety,
my high school had hundreds of shootings per week.
The school rifle team had a range in the school's basement.
(Target shooting was a lot safer than football & wrestling.)

Glad to see you lived to tell the tale. And stay away from the football field.

 

[Revoltingest]

Glad to see you lived to tell the tale. And stay away from the football field.

Aye, so many guys I know had to have knee surgery.
Very unhealthy sport. And the concussions....yuck.

 

[oldbadger]

I will challenge that. Provide citations, please.

Read this,
No, There Haven't Been 18 School Shootings This Year — Not Even Close

You can keep challenging away, or you can wake up to the simple fact that schools in the USA are exposed to many gun killings, and since this can happen anywhere and at random, you really do need to start thinking about how to protect your kids properly.

Our last mass murder in a school (UK) happened over thirty years ago, but we did something about it. Do you want to do something about securing the lives of your country's children?

So you see, one school shooting in the last ten years should be enough for you to start thinking, surely?

 

[MonkeyFire]

Guns don't do much for the all mighty.

 

[oldbadger]

I do not know what each school in the US has, and as a matter of fact I don't know about any schools. If I was in the security business and contracted to do site surveys then I would, but again only the schools I was contracted to do.

OK, so you don't know about the difficulties of securing schools. But it could also be fair to propose that it's difficult to know what training would be required before a history master would be able to make snap judgements about what to do in the event of a mad killer suddenly running riot with a fast-fire gun, killing anybody and everybody found.

Good school security would start at the school perimeter, all the way round, no shirking, no cheap jobs, no exceptions, one entrance for all, access-control.

No, I do not consider every incident a "major" incident. However, the only ones that I think that can be addressed are the ones that occur within a building or in a area that has controlled access like a stadium.

OK, but I would. If somehow a person was stopped or found to be attempting to enter a school with a gun for any illegal reason I would treat that as a major incident and would want to know fine details about every part of that incident.

And if the school's perimeter was breached then that would be a 'seriously dangerous incident'.

And I will have to disagree with your figures very strongly.

OK, I looked up the Wiki article and noted that there have been about 170 gun incidents in schools since 2010. So I've dropped my figures and picked up yours so that we have absolutely no need to waste further writing about numbers of incidents.
170 school gun-incidents in 7.2 years. That's a bloody disgrace. When I write 'bloody' that's exactly what I mean.

No, as far as I know the US does not have schools secured.

We know that. For instance, any Vietnamese boatman with a modern mobile phone knows that. The lady who reads my water meter knows that.

The main reason is that it is, as I said before, easier to place blame on the instrument vice looking a the underlying cause and putting procedures and policies in place to address the issue.

No...... the reason is that nobody has been prepared to provide for child, parent and worker safety in schools yet.

It is my opinion that firearms will always be available within the US for many years to come. Therefore those that think they can solve the problem by removing the instrument will be the cause of more bodies piling up.

I thought we were talking about school security. All of a sudden you have left the subject to point somewhere else.
That's what has been happening for a century now, according to your choice of gun-incident figures.
We were discussing the best way to secure children's lives, and you have dropped the subject. I don't think that American children are going to let that happen any more.

 

[esmith]

OK, so you don't know about the difficulties of securing schools. But it could also be fair to propose that it's difficult to know what training would be required before a history master would be able to make snap judgements about what to do in the event of a mad killer suddenly running riot with a fast-fire gun, killing anybody and everybody found.

Good school security would start at the school perimeter, all the way round, no shirking, no cheap jobs, no exceptions, one entrance for all, access-control.


OK, but I would. If somehow a person was stopped or found to be attempting to enter a school with a gun for any illegal reason I would treat that as a major incident and would want to know fine details about every part of that incident.

And if the school's perimeter was breached then that would be a 'seriously dangerous incident'.


OK, I looked up the Wiki article and noted that there have been about 170 gun incidents in schools since 2010. So I've dropped my figures and picked up yours so that we have absolutely no need to waste further writing about numbers of incidents.
170 school gun-incidents in 7.2 years. That's a bloody disgrace. When I write 'bloody' that's exactly what I mean.


We know that. For instance, any Vietnamese boatman with a modern mobile phone knows that. The lady who reads my water meter knows that.



No...... the reason is that nobody has been prepared to provide for child, parent and worker safety in schools yet.


I thought we were talking about school security. All of a sudden you have left the subject to point somewhere else.
That's what has been happening for a century now, according to your choice of gun-incident figures.
We were discussing the best way to secure children's lives, and you have dropped the subject. I don't think that American children are going to let that happen any more.

Statement 1. I said I don't know the security issues at every school since every school is different. Don't try and change what I said.
Statement 2. What do you consider the "school perimeter". To me a "perimeter" is the area around the school not in the school.
Statement 3. Your idea about a major incident conflicts with my understanding. So be it.
Statement 4. Yeah, it is a problem but can not be addressed by blaming the weapon. Again that would be lazy
Statement 5 School security starts by recognizing the problem and that hasn't even been addressed. That is why I said it was easier for politicians to blame the instrument vice the underlying problem that is causing the problem and think by just banning something it will work. In other words lazy and not willing to face the real facts. You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Let me make it very very plain. There are those that want to say the problem is the firearm and bury their head in the ground when they are told that their concept is wrong. However, it is easier to say "the firearm is the problem" and refuse to see the real problem.

 

[oldbadger]

Statement 1. I said I don't know the security issues at every school since every school is different. Don't try and change what I said.

I know what you said. You simply repeated what I had previously written, that each school is unique.

Statement 2. What do you consider the "school perimeter". To me a "perimeter" is the area around the school not in the school.

That was a question, Esmith, not a statement. My answer would be more of a statement.
The Perimeter is the line around the grounds of the school.
In the UK our school security tends to start around this line. There are some difficulties with this because we have ancient Public Footpaths which can 'wander' right through a school's grounds, but I'll bet that County Councils are agreeing to redirect these around schools now.

Statement 3. Your idea about a major incident conflicts with my understanding. So be it.

If you don't think a failed attempt to attack or deterred entry with gun into a school is a major incident, then I can't quite figure how you could ever evaluate what Risk is.

Statement 4. Yeah, it is a problem but can not be addressed by blaming the weapon. Again that would be lazy

And now your just retreating from what could have been a good discussion about protecting your country's children, because it begins to look like you just want to play with all your guns, keep all your guns........... but this time the people might just make a big difference in some other directionm.

Statement 5 School security starts by recognizing the problem and that hasn't even been addressed. That is why I said it was easier for politicians to blame the instrument vice the underlying problem that is causing the problem and think by just banning something it will work. In other words lazy and not willing to face the real facts.

You've already written that you don't have much idea about school security, Esmith, so don't play the expert now.
The real facts are that 170 shootings, many of them mass shootings, have occured in schools in 7+ years, (your chosen figures) and all you do is point in some other direction, any direction, but your beloved fast-firing guns.
You return to this theme ahgain and again, but you need to acknowledge that I have stuck to what schools need to improve their security, only.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Let me make it very very plain. There are those that want to say the problem is the firearm and bury their head in the ground when they are told that their concept is wrong. However, it is easier to say "the firearm is the problem" and refuse to see the real problem.

As if I didn't guess that you don't want to talk about protecting children in schools, just moaning on about your guns.

I have tried to discuss how schools can improve their security, offering you the chance to suggest how this could be achieved, and you've shown that you know more about shop back doors than school risks.

You're full of statements this morning, but my basic statement is that if the USA follows your ideas, there will be yet another 170 school shootings in the next 7 years, and you still will not have done a thing about it.

Let's leave it there because I can see that you've got nothing to add to the subject of 'how to secure schools'.

 

[esmith]

[QUOTE="oldbadger, post: 5539107, member: 39349"
You're full of statements this morning, but my basic statement is that if the USA follows your ideas, there will be yet another 170 school shootings in the next 7 years, and you still will not have done a thing about it.

Let's leave it there because I can see that you've got nothing to add to the subject of 'how to secure schools'.[/QUOTE]
Fine with me, because the private citizen can discuss the problem all day long but nothing will happen until those that have the power to do something recognizes the problem and address it.