Teacher accidentally fires gun in classroom, students injured

[esmith]

Shooters, knowing that the teachers are armed, will take them out first with auto or semi-auto weaponry. Bursting into a classroom by surprise will have the upper hand. Teachers will have little chance of a first response, and in cases where they do, a handgun is no match for the kind of weapons a shooter will be carrying. The thing to do is to prevent shooters from entering onto campus grounds to begin with.

hey where are they going to get an automatic weapon.....oh that's right you are one of those aren't you.
Where do you get the idea that a handgun is not match for a semi-automatic rifle.....oh that's right you are one of those aren't you.

I will give you points for the last statement though, to a degree.

 

[esmith]

The question, beyond the brief description given, was all yours to build as your imagination decided.

The point is this..... you gave an answer, you responded. The question has Been put to other armteacher supporters but none has attempted any answer at all.

It's easy to promote an idea from calm safety, harder to do it for real.

You're the only one who has shown what I call 'incident-initiative'.

That's called experience and training. I admit it takes some time, but I wouldn't put anyone on a incident response team without training.

 

[Revoltingest]

Shooters, knowing that the teachers are armed, will take them out first with auto or semi-auto weaponry.

Some problems with that scenario.....
There should be no publicizing of which school staff (not limited to teachers)
would be carrying a concealed handgun. A perp should be discouraged by
not knowing how many or which on staff would be armed.

Secondly, whether staff are armed or not, it makes sense to have monitored
& limited access to schools. Thus, if someone carrying a long gun, or otherwise
acting suspiciously, staff would likely know in advance, & have time to implement
an appropriate security plan. This is worth doing independently of legislative
changes or lack thereof.

Bursting into a classroom by surprise will have the upper hand.

This is only one scenario, & would only apply in an initial attack.
But even so, an armed staff would fare better than an unarmed one.

Teachers will have little chance of a first response, and in cases where they do, a handgun is no match for the kind of weapons a shooter will be carrying.

A handgun is still a capable weapon, & being at a firepower disadvantage
doesn't preclude successful defense. Such a fight would not be as
predictable as you make it out to be.

The thing to do is to prevent shooters from entering onto campus grounds to begin with.

It is not possible to prevent an armed perp from coming to a school. Moreover, there is
no single "thing to do". Making schools safer requires a multi-faceted approach which
is both legally & financially achievable. Recognize that guns won't be banned, schools
won't have on site police stations, individual cops are not reliable, & that high security
entry systems with metal detectors won't be accepted.
- Law enforcement agencies need to coordinate with each other, act upon tips, plan
fork such emergencies, & have better communication with schools.
- Mental health services must be re-examined to better serve people at risk of
becoming violent.
- Cops must train to be safer around the public, given their horrible safety record.
- Concealed carry licensees must be better trained for safe gun handling.
- School staff who are qualified & specially trained can have an accident
free presence which has 2 advantages....
1) They can defend themselves & others.
2) Perps will be less likely to attack a school if they expect to meet armed resistance.

 

[godnotgod]

hey where are they going to get an automatic weapon.....oh that's right you are one of those aren't you.
Where do you get the idea that a handgun is not match for a semi-automatic rifle.....oh that's right you are one of those aren't you.

I will give you points for the last statement though, to a degree.

Alas, 'yes': 'one of THOSE!' (barf). So I can haz cheezeburger now, and get xtra points for 1st two comments. Ya!

"These devices [bump stocks] are generally legal. Miles Kohrman at the Trace reported that the ATF gave one company, Bump Fire System, a letter of approval before its product shipped to market in 2012.

It’s also just one kind of modification. There are others, including a crank that replaces the trigger — turning a gun into what a gun aficionado channel on YouTube called “a mini Gatling Gun.” And it’s still possible to make illegal modifications that turn guns into fully automatic weapons, as Andy Greenberg explained at Wired.

“Converting a semi-automatic to fully automatic is very, very easy,” John Sullivan, lead engineer for the gun access group Defense Distributed, told Wired. “At the end of the day, machine guns are easy to make.”"

The legal loopholes that let people get automatic guns

When a shooter enters a campus, where is the teacher's handgun? In his desk drawer? In a locked box? In his hip holster? Under his belt? How long does it take to realize the situation, get to his gun, release the safety, aim and shoot? This is in response to the shooter already having his weapon aimed and ready to fire, assuming no prior warning of his presence. I don't think most teachers would want to have a handgun on a hip or shoulder holster exposed to his students during class sessions. In fact, it would probably be outlawed. So, no cigar for the handgun. No. I opt for a fully automatic weapon, always cocked and ready to fire, strapped over the teacher's shoulder at all times, with maybe a couple grenades on his hip belt, and if the authorities or parents have any objection, well teacher can always say:

“Badges? Badges? What badges? We donn-eh gotta show you no eh-stinkink badges!”

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...le-is-better-than-a-handgun-for-home-defense/

 

[esmith]

Alas, 'yes': 'one of THOSE!' (barf). So I can haz cheezeburger now, and get xtra points for 1st two comments. Ya!

Yeah, having a bad day and took it out on you. Sorry about that.

 

[godnotgod]

Perps will be less likely to attack a school if they expect to meet armed resistance.

...or maybe more likely, as some have a death wish and want to have a full fledged confrontation with authorities, and go down while armed to the teeth.

Perps will be less likely to attack a school if they can't get in to begin with.

'Perps'? Whazzzat?

 

[godnotgod]

Yeah, having a bad day and took it out on you. Sorry about that.

Not a problem. Just fork over the two cheezeburgers and we'll call it a day.

 

[esmith]

Not a problem. Just fork over the two cheezeburgers and we'll call it a day.

sorry I ate them after adding some bacon strips.

 

[Revoltingest]

...or maybe more likely, as some have a death wish and want to have a full fledged confrontation with authorities, and go down while armed to the teeth.

Perps will be less likely to attack a school if they can't get in to begin with.

'Perps'? Whazzzat?

"Perp" is an abbreviation of "perpetrator".
It's a term used by lazy good fer nuthin posters who watch too many cop shows on TV.
I'd wager your left one that perps would be less likely to attack if they expected a gun fight.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

One reason. This is not Australia.

If it works here, why would it not work there?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Why do you say they don't have anymore information than that was provided. Ever hear of wireless communication?

So what, shooter is shooting up the school, and all the armed teachers wait for a text from *unspecified* before springing into action?

 

[Foxic]

If it works here, why would it not work there?

It would work here, but the NRA would rather make excuses and line its pocket than fix the problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

It would work here, but the NRA would rather make excuses and line its pocket than fix the problem.

They're a better bunch than you think.
While I will disagree with them on some things,
I find them to be sincere & working toward the
greater good.....how to get there is where the
arguing comes in.

 

[esmith]

If it works here, why would it not work there?

We have something called the Constitution

 

[esmith]

So what, shooter is shooting up the school, and all the armed teachers wait for a text from *unspecified* before springing into action?

Do you by any chance experience in threat evaluation and planning?
With the above comment it appears that you do not.
Only those wishing to get their *** blown away does something without some intelligence.
However, when lives are at stake and you are it, you are it and consequences be damned, just hope your experience and training will suffice.

 

[esmith]

It would work here, but the NRA would rather make excuses and line its pocket than fix the problem.

Doesn't appear that my pockets are getting lined, and I am the NRA

 

[oldbadger]

That's called experience and training.

Yes, and a small % of folks (by comparison with all) will be able to auto-react auto-think in a school incident.
But teachers (mostly) just won't be able to do it well enough.
In that earlier scenario my first reaction would have been to keep control of the class, it was about to react in various ways, but the thing is, to be able to do something positive.

I admit it takes some time, but I wouldn't put anyone on a incident response team without training.

.......... and that is why we folks who debate against armed-teachers don't believe in it.

Many years ago my company held a paint-ball fun day and a coach load of us went off to the woods. We were up against another company's employees who played paintball once a month......... we never had! The young ops from our central station were all IT war-games enthusiasts and they bunched together as 'experts' and believed that they would do well. Some of our older employees were ex-service personnel and they reckoned they would shine as well. I kept close to the office ladies's group, not because I'm a sissy but because I thought I might prefer to hide in the woods with ladies rather than get paint all over me with the idiots.

Oh dear...... It was embarrassing. We had four games that day and got trashed with so much ease that it was painful. The IT kids, who were so deadly in virtual reality, and the ex-service 'sandbaggers' (pull up and sit on a sand-bag, and I'll tell you how it's done ) were quietened at last. Subdued! Painted!

The office ladies' group? We all went and hid and didn't move until anybody with a paint gun came along, and then shot 'em red....... the marshals said we cheated because we didn't win the fortress (whatever) but we enjoyed it better than the experts!

Point being......... it takes too much training to prepare a teacher. Let teachers teach, and train proper security officers to do the best they can, supported by perimeter security, access control, cameras etc. That simple means: Spend money to protect your kids, and no cheapskate 'home-guard' nonsense.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Going back to the 1940's and 50's we were taught how to fire guns in school . But as part of the combined cadet force. The trainers were reserve servicemen and regulars. Using standard military weapons with fireing supervised in indoor and oudoor ranges. Many of these instructors were ex serving officers from Ww2. And now teachers. At that time virtually every adult male in the Uk had seved in the forces, either as national service or as a regular. And fully trained in the use of weapons. Today that would be ony a tiny fraction of the population.

 

[Curious George]

Going back to the 1940's and 50's we were taught how to fire guns in school . But as part of the combined cadet force. The trainers were reserve servicemen and regulars. Using standard military weapons with fireing supervised in indoor and oudoor ranges. Many of these instructors were ex serving officers from Ww2. And now teachers. At that time virtually every adult male in the Uk had seved in the forces, either as national service or as a regular. And fully trained in the use of weapons. Today that would be ony a tiny fraction of the population.

How many accidents did you see?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

How many accidents did you see?

none

Though a friend had his head removed by a shell on a tank firing range whilst serving in the army. he was standing in the cockpit of a truck at the time.