Teacher accidentally fires gun in classroom, students injured

[Father Heathen]

I think you hit the nail on the head. The culture has changed!

So schools are parenting instead of teaching and protecting instead of educating while parents stand by as baby sitters. It's the government that is gaining more and more control and becoming the parents... isn't that the beginnings of communism where they asked for you children for 6 years so that they could indoctrinate them?

Then why don't other secular/liberal first world countries have these issues? Their cultures don't at all resemble the 1950's America that you glorify.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Some might, others might not.

Yup, would assume that. But if this is part of emergency planning or security in any serious manner, how the heck does THAT work?
In Australia, there are mandatory levels of first aiders required within the staff population at a school. Is it similar in the US? There seems a more cavalier approach to this (give teachers guns and security increases) which is divorced from any contingency planning or risk migation strategies I've been involved with.

 

[Kenny]

Then why don't other secular/liberal first world countries have these issues? Their cultures don't at all resemble the 1950's America that you glorify.

???

I'm not sure what country you live in -- and definitely I haven't glorified the US (unless you find a quote of mine). Jesus -- YES -- but that is about it.

Are you leaving out Estonia and Latvia? The less religious countries in the world but with higher murder rates?

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm not sure what country you live in -- and definitely I haven't glorified the US (unless you find a quote of mine). Jesus -- YES -- but that is about it.

Perhaps I presumed too much, but it seemed like you were pining for the ever-romanticized "good ol' days".

Are you leaving out Estonia and Latvia? The less religious countries in the world but with higher murder rates?

Those are former soviet satellites and are considered second world, not first.

 

[Kenny]

Perhaps I presumed too much, but it seemed like you were pining for the ever-romanticized "good ol' days".

OK... but no.

Those are former soviet satellites and are considered second world, not first.

So... are you limiting "secular" to first world whether it is secular or not?

 

[Father Heathen]

OK... but no.


So... are you limiting "secular" to first world whether it is secular or not?

I had said first world in the initial post, and such countries tend to be secular and lean liberal. They also don't deal with anything near the level of crime and violence like we do in the U.S.

 

[esmith]

Do teachers even want it?
I'm an ex teacher. I wouldn't.

one does not represent the whole

 

[esmith]

would you support a pay raise for them?

no, it is voluntary and I wouldn't want someone wanting to carry a weapon just because it meant more pay.

 

[esmith]

Idaho professor accidentally shoots himself in the foot in chemistry class

An Idaho State University assistant professor with a concealed-carry gun permit shot himself in the foot with a semiautomatic handgun that accidentally discharged from inside his pocket in a chemistry classroom full of students, police said on Wednesday......


Idaho’s Republican-led legislature passed the law allowing guns on university grounds earlier this year over the objection of the presidents of the state’s leading universities, including Idaho State, which was routinely ranked as one of the safest campuses in the United States.

Idaho professor accidentally shoots himself in the foot in...

and your point is?????

 

[esmith]

Do you think training and repeated exposure will decrease the chances of accidents occurring?

to some extent it will, but there are always going to be accidents no matter the training.
I will not say which military Spec Ops group or groups have had accidents during live fire exercises but they have happened and look at the amount of time they spend training

 

[godnotgod]

Idaho professor accidentally shoots himself in the foot in chemistry class

An Idaho State University assistant professor with a concealed-carry gun permit shot himself in the foot with a semiautomatic handgun that accidentally discharged from inside his pocket in a chemistry classroom full of students, police said on Wednesday......

The next headline might read:

"A San Francisco elementary school teacher with a concealed-carry gun permit shot an 8-year old student in the head with a semiautomatic handgun that accidentally discharged from inside his pocket in a history classroom full of students, police said on Thursday...the student later died in a local hospital."

Can't anyone see? This is all the wrong approach. Imagine you are a student in one of these schools where all the teachers are armed, because there 'might' be an incident. Students, knowing this, would be neurotic messes each day, all day, an environment totally non-conducive to education. This won't work. The entire campus must be made safe from the outside via security personnel protecting the entire perimeter, and anyone entering the campus would need to pass through metal detectors each day. Knowing that any shooter has little chance of penetrating this perimeter would create a more conducive atmosphere within the campus proper for all concerned. But this is still a terrible situation. Ultimately the problem must be addressed from within society itself.

Ask yourself if you would want your child to attend a school where everyone is armed to the teeth. It's insane. Getting used to it is like the frog getting used to the temperature being raised a bit at a time in a pot of water until it's too late. We're heading for a totalitarian state where people will say: 'This is the way it has to be...long live The State and StateSpeak'.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Do you think training and repeated exposure will decrease the chances of accidents occurring?

Decrease? Yes. Decrease to the point it improves the net number of firearm incidents at schools? Hmmm...

 

[oldbadger]

Btw, be careful using Fox News as a source.
You'll ruffle a few feathers here.

Whaaaat!!??
Did somebody say FOX!!!! ??
Oh my Gawd!

 

[oldbadger]

to some extent it will, but there are always going to be accidents no matter the training.
I will not say which military Spec Ops group or groups have had accidents during live fire exercises but they have happened and look at the amount of time they spend training

The above is reason enough to forget gun-toting teachers.

The only answer to more-secure schools in to spend money on perimeter security, access control, camera systems and properly trained security officers.

Penny-pinching catastrophes such as arming teachers will backfire so badly.

Could you take the test? Could you, if a teacher, and with all your experience, handle a school situation?

Let's say you are teaching geography to twenty 15yr olds in a classroom situated on the rear elevation of the main school building, with three double glazed waist-high windows looking out onto playing fields, one with a side-opener for fire-escape egress. The classroom entrance door opens into a long corridor which connects other classes as well as fire-escapes and on into the main building.

It is mid-morning. As you are teaching you hear three gun-type sounds from deep within the building. You stop to listen and then hear more gun-type noises together with distant calls and shouting. Your students look around, stir, start talking together and some make to stand up.

You can have any gun you like, and build on the above scenario if you wish.

Wanna havago? Go for it!
Exactly what will you do?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The next headline might read:

"A San Francisco elementary school teacher with a concealed-carry gun permit shot an 8-year old student in the head with a semiautomatic handgun that accidentally discharged from inside his pocket in a history classroom full of students, police said on Thursday...the student later died in a local hospital."

Can't anyone see? This is all the wrong approach. Imagine you are a student in one of these schools where all the teachers are armed, because there 'might' be an incident. Students, knowing this, would be neurotic messes each day, all day, an environment totally non-conducive to education. This won't work. The entire campus must be made safe from the outside via security personnel protecting the entire perimeter, and anyone entering the campus would need to pass through metal detectors each day. Knowing that any shooter has little chance of penetrating this perimeter would create a more conducive atmosphere within the campus proper for all concerned. But this is still a terrible situation. Ultimately the problem must be addressed from within society itself.

Ask yourself if you would want your child to attend a school where everyone is armed to the teeth. It's insane. Getting used to it is like the frog getting used to the temperature being raised a bit at a time in a pot of water until it's too late. We're heading for a totalitarian state where people will say: 'This is the way it has to be...long live The State and StateSpeak'.

I'm with you....

 

[Epic Beard Man]

and your point is?????

point is no teacher should be freggin armed...

 

[Quetzal]

Decrease? Yes. Decrease to the point it improves the net number of firearm incudents at schools?

There is no way any of us can accurately predict the net number but I do agree that it would decrease the chances as well.

 

[fantome profane]

but there are always going to be accidents no matter the training.

But this is just not true. I have never had an accident with a gun. And I have absolutely no gun training at all.

I have never had a gun accident because I don’t have a gun. See how that works?

And when I was in school I never had a teacher accidentally shoot a student or themselves with a gun. Never happened. Can you guess why it never happened?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

one does not represent the whole

Whatever the heck that has to do with things.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that no teacher would want it. But suggesting 'Let's arm teachers' is asinine.

 

[Revoltingest]

to some extent it will, but there are always going to be accidents no matter the training.
I will not say which military Spec Ops group or groups have had accidents during live fire exercises but they have happened and look at the amount of time they spend training

There's a problem with comparing aggressive live-fire military training & what's appropriate for
civilians, especially in controversial places like schools. Of all the accidents mentioned &
imagined here, they can be addressed with thoughtful regulation of conduct. The problem is
that too many inexperienced & thoughtless people are carrying. Back when I got my carry
license (in the 80s) it was a difficult process, with few licenses being issued. But even then
I thought the requirements were all wrong....they cared about justifying need, but not enuf
about training, which was only a couple days.
This needs to change, since very public accidents are a threat to gun rights.