Teacher Sued For Bashing Christianity -- Will Others Be Censored?

[Alceste]

I did say they could discuss religion, I just said that the teachers should keep their personal opinions about it to themselves, particularly if it is very negative and you have people of that faith in your class. You can say that you disagree with someone without saying that they are PITAs, for example. And you can teach evolution without saying that people who believe creationism are stupid or superstitious.
All I am saying is you should have some compassion.

I'm all for compassion. I simply don't think it has been demonstrated that this teacher lacked compassion. The reason these particular quotes have been weeded out of hundreds of hours of lectures and taken out of context is because they represent the absolute worst the Republican political activists could find. And it's still not all that bad, frankly. None of it is critical of his Christian students - only religion in general.

 

[monta]

Sure, that's one student's story, but as I recall that student goes on to give a very favorable review, as does another former Christian student - the one he helped to get into an esteemed divinity program rather than the local Bible college. As I recall, the second guy says that debate strengthened his faith and the whole experience was positive overall, and "made him into the Christian he is today".

Anyway, I recognize the unique situation US teachers are in because of the constitution, but I also think that American schools are positively infested with religious teaching in the form of ID and Abstinence Education and becoming more so every day. I think that if separation of church and state is the objective, instead of tackling individual, excellent teachers for offhand comments some students find offensive, Americans should purge abstinence ed and ID from their schools. Surely that would relieve some of the tension that might cause teachers who care about what is true to make offensive offhand comments about religion.

Yes it's one students story, the student who spoke most highly of Dr. Corbett. You can't dismiss his negative views of the teacher and then site the positive views as testimony, either he is credible or he is not.

I think this teacher has an issue with people who believe in creationism, and he uses his position as a teacher to voice his objections, I also believe this was outside the scope of his employment.

 

[berrychrisc]

The KJV is still a translation of an ancient text originally written in Aramaic.

Again, how can it be an "English work".

The KJV is a translation of ancient texts originally written in Greek and Hebrew, while using the Latin Vulgate as a secondary reference. The translation has been called "the noblest monument of English prose" and is often treated in works covering English literature.

 

[dust1n]

Wow.. 2 days later, 13 pages of replies.. a long read, but fun to do so. Thanks everyone for replying...

 

[Buttercup]

Thanks everyone for replying...

Frubals will more than compensate.

 

[dust1n]

Frubals will more than compensate.

Haha.. I don't have that many frubals to go around!!!

 

[Riverwolf]

The KJV is still a translation of an ancient text originally written in Aramaic.

Again, how can it be an "English work".

(There were three languages the Biblical books were originally written in: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.)

And I ask again, why does a piece of classic literature have to be written in English originally in order to be taught in English class?

Was it wrong for my teacher, therefore, to teach the Odyssey, since it was a translation of a Greek poem? Or how about another teacher teaching Beowulf, seeing as Anglo-Saxon is essentially a different language than modern English? Or some teachers teaching the Divine Comedy, which is a piece of Italian literature?

Heck, my English teacher also glossed a bit over the Canterbury Tales, which were originally written in a form of Middle English that's unintelligible to the modern ear.

By your logic, none of these pieces should enter English class, as they aren't English in origin.

 

[darkendless]

Stikes as offensive to me as well, but from the standpoint that such personal biases do not belong in the classroom.

BTW, we already ARE stuck with a generation or two of block heads, which began when the classroom became the personal soapbox of educators instead of places of education.

It might have been as boring as hell, but way back in my day people graduated KNOWING things. No counting on our fingers to answer 12 x 9 = x. We knew who the Pres was and where the major Nations were. We could name all of the states and point to them on a map.

All of this is absent from many public school graduates today.

Simple facts are not as important as explanations. Kids need real life examples to relate their work to the real world, especially in highly theoretical situations in maths, chemistry and physics to name a few.

Also, if their ideas are not challenged in the classroom, the real world of college and beyond is going to hit them like a ton of bricks.

If you restrict what teachers can say, you restrict how well they can explain things to their kids.

I'm sorry, but American's are their PC BS will slowly dumb down your nation. You guys take rights way too far, to an extent where the rest of the world simply rolls its eyes.

 

[Alceste]

Yes it's one students story, the student who spoke most highly of Dr. Corbett. You can't dismiss his negative views of the teacher and then site the positive views as testimony, either he is credible or he is not.

I think this teacher has an issue with people who believe in creationism, and he uses his position as a teacher to voice his objections, I also believe this was outside the scope of his employment.

I didn't - neither student had an unfavorable review. Also, the court seems to have determined that he was not using his position as a teacher to voice an "issue" with "people who believe in creationism". He was deemed to have spoken unconstitutionally in only one instance, which refers to the idea of creationism in the context of a discussion of whether or not the school's science teacher should have been allowed to promote it in the school newspaper. Maybe he has an "issue" with the idea of creationism, but I was under the impression that pretty much all of us - except creationists - have the exact same "issue" with creationism.

 

[AxisMundi]

The KJV is a translation of ancient texts originally written in Greek and Hebrew, while using the Latin Vulgate as a secondary reference. The translation has been called "the noblest monument of English prose" and is often treated in works covering English literature.

Again, it isn't an English work. It's not even European.

Looks like more lip service to me, ike saying the US was "founded on Christian principles", a lame attempt to link something that just isn't there.

It's like stating that an english version of the Kama Sutra is "English liturature."

 

[AxisMundi]

(There were three languages the Biblical books were originally written in: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.)

And I ask again, why does a piece of classic literature have to be written in English originally in order to be taught in English class?

Was it wrong for my teacher, therefore, to teach the Odyssey, since it was a translation of a Greek poem? Or how about another teacher teaching Beowulf, seeing as Anglo-Saxon is essentially a different language than modern English? Or some teachers teaching the Divine Comedy, which is a piece of Italian literature?

Heck, my English teacher also glossed a bit over the Canterbury Tales, which were originally written in a form of Middle English that's unintelligible to the modern ear.

By your logic, none of these pieces should enter English class, as they aren't English in origin.

The Tales were written in English BY English.

The bible was written by a culture and language alien to Europeans.

Scritpures are not English.

 

[AxisMundi]

Simple facts are not as important as explanations. Kids need real life examples to relate their work to the real world, especially in highly theoretical situations in maths, chemistry and physics to name a few.

Also, if their ideas are not challenged in the classroom, the real world of college and beyond is going to hit them like a ton of bricks.

If you restrict what teachers can say, you restrict how well they can explain things to their kids.

I'm sorry, but American's are their PC BS will slowly dumb down your nation. You guys take rights way too far, to an extent where the rest of the world simply rolls its eyes.

I offer the steadily decreasing quality of education and the steadily increasing number of morons kicked out into the real world as all the proof and substantiate I need to show you that you are incorrect.

Asian students are now some of the best in the world. Do their teachers indulge in personal opinions or is the classroom devoted to learning the material? (And yes, I realize there is some cultrural differences as well, but it is an example)

 

[darkendless]

I offer the steadily decreasing quality of education and the steadily increasing number of morons kicked out into the real world as all the proof and substantiate I need to show you that you are incorrect.

Asian students are now some of the best in the world. Do their teachers indulge in personal opinions or is the classroom devoted to learning the material? (And yes, I realize there is some cultrural differences as well, but it is an example)

Half of my degree has asian international students in it. 90% of my lecturers are asian (unfortunately as i cannot understand them).

Maybe in your country.

In my country the number of educated people is increasing. I'd expect nothing less in America though.

 

[Copernicus]

Evolution is science. Science belongs in public school curriculum.

Agreed.

Creationism is religious myth, and does NOT belong in public school curriculum.

False. It belongs in social studies courses. It is an important religious movement in the politics and history of the United States.

Evolution also does not, in any manner, threaten Creationism.

Creationists believe that it does. I think that they are correct about that and that you are wrong.

Abiogenesis, a seperate dicipline, does and is not, to the best of my knowledge, taught in grade schools as it involves the higher microbiology criteria.

This is barely coherent. Abiogenesis is a scientific hypothesis, not a discipline. It can and should be discussed in Earth Science and Biology classes. Students need to know what it is, even if they don't believe in it.

 

[monta]

I didn't - neither student had an unfavorable review. Also, the court seems to have determined that he was not using his position as a teacher to voice an "issue" with "people who believe in creationism". He was deemed to have spoken unconstitutionally in only one instance, which refers to the idea of creationism in the context of a discussion of whether or not the school's science teacher should have been allowed to promote it in the school newspaper. Maybe he has an "issue" with the idea of creationism, but I was under the impression that pretty much all of us - except creationists - have the exact same "issue" with creationism.

The students, not just the student who sued, seem to have come to the conclusion that he has something against Christians, and held this opinion prior to this lawsuit.

As for creationists being in a minority, I don't think that gives people with authority over them, permission to single them out in the workplace and school and ridicule them, or their beliefs. I would hate to see it get to the stage where people had to closet their beliefs. I don't think the creationists have the right to try and force their doctrine to be taught in school either, and to be honest, that this is even a possibility, is an aspect of US culture , that I, and I believe a lot of people, find bizarre.

I will say this though, I think in a way Dr Corbett was saved by the religious bias of the student and his legal team, I think their inability to distinguish between an attack on his religion and opinions that were merely contrary to their religious belief, weakened the case against Dr Corbett.

 

[ChrisP]

Unfortunately for these kids one day they will leave the safe confines of the classroom and enter the real world. This real workd is an amazing place, full of differing opinions, theories and arguments ranging from the semi-structured ramblings of a genius to the grunts of the typical American Idol viewer.

Choosing to shelter your children from the opinions of some of the few adults in their life is to leave them unprepared to assess and filter the opinions of the people they will meet once they leave the fantasy of a classroom and could also detriment their ability to develop their own opinions through considered thought.

Human beings develop through repitition and practise. Let them hear as many differing opinions on as many subjects as they possibly can while they have the opportunity to develop a critical mind and let them decide for themselves. Anything less is a crime against a broad and thorough education. Educating our young is not just about them memorising words, numbers and theories from a book. It is about learning how to deal with life in a mature, responsible and intelligent way.

Religion is only as important in our society as the weight we place upon it, putting weight on one's own religion does not mean that as a society we must place weight on a societal set of morals, ethics and way of life that we derive from our beliefs.

Thusly I sum up pretty much every argument I've ever made on this forum relating to education, religion and dumbarsery.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Creationism is making the USA the laughing stock of the rest of the world.

It is crippling their Scientific reality.
It may one day destroy their educational integrity.

 

[Riverwolf]

The Tales were written in English BY English.

No they weren't. The Odyssey was recited in Greek by a Greek. The Divine Comedy was written in Italian by an Italian. The Aeneid was written in Latin by a Roman.

EDIT: OH, you mean the Canterbury Tales!

Like I said, in a form of English that's nigh unintelligible to the modern ear, almost to the point of being another language.

The bible was written by a culture and language alien to Europeans.

So? English class has always doubled as a literature class; why can't world literature be included?

Besides, my English teacher also presented the argument that it was the Greek culture and the Hebrew culture combined that made Western culture. You can't deny the influence the Bible has had on our culture, even though it came from just down the sea.

Scritpures are not English.

But they are literature. ^_^

 

[AxisMundi]

Half of my degree has asian international students in it. 90% of my lecturers are asian (unfortunately as i cannot understand them).

Maybe in your country.

In my country the number of educated people is increasing. I'd expect nothing less in America though.

Again, we are speaking of elementary education in this thread, not institutions of higher learning.

And yes, we ARE speaking of American education in this thread, not Aussie.

Can we PLEASE stay on topic. Thank you.

 

[darkendless]

Again, we are speaking of elementary education in this thread, not institutions of higher learning.

And yes, we ARE speaking of American education in this thread, not Aussie.

Can we PLEASE stay on topic. Thank you.

Education should be the same throughout so that the jumps between each stage of learning are mitigated. Thats how it is here. Maybe thats another issue in your "awesome" system of learning.

The constant comparison i make to Aussie schooling it to highlight just how rediculous American education really is. I couldn't imagine learning science without examples, it would detract from the beauty of science itself. If some stupid christian doesn't like his rediculous beliefs getting challenged his place is in a dark cave somewhere, not in the real world he is being prepared to join.