Teachers opinions in public schools

[drsatish]

[FONT=&quot]For eg.[/FONT]
"Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia”
could Mean or Become
Thunderous Clouds in the Calm Waters of a Classroom…
..one interpretation.
Satish

By the way, though I am not a Muslim,
let me say..
"JUSTIFY" ANY WAR ..is right now in the HANDS of...so-called
ANTI-JESUS NON-VIOLENT ...."Christian" countries....
or Atheist Russia
rather than in ANY MUSLIM OUTFIT.

Prevalence of Pedophilia COUNTRYWISE...is
Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...if there is any country or religion mentioned in it.

Satish

 

[jarofthoughts]

[FONT=&quot]For eg.[/FONT]
"Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia”
could Mean or Become
Thunderous Clouds in the Calm Waters of a Classroom…
..one interpretation.
Satish

By the way, though I am not a Muslim,
let me say..
"JUSTIFY" ANY WAR ..is right now in the HANDS of...so-called
ANTI-JESUS NON-VIOLENT ...."Christian" countries....
or Atheist Russia
rather than in ANY MUSLIM OUTFIT.

Prevalence of Pedophilia COUNTRYWISE...is
Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...if there is any country or religion mentioned in it.

Satish

Nope.

Still not getting your point. :sarcastic

Plain English please?

 

[drsatish]

Nope.

Still not getting your point. :sarcastic

Plain English please?

In Plain English...can you tell me
1. What WAR is.
2. What Pedophilia is.
3. What AN AGENCY that could be DOING it.

Satish

 

[kepha31]

Then the teacher said that: "Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia".

Apparently that resulted in an immediate end of discussion, the students were shocked and didn't know how to respond, many of them were bothered by the statement and discussed it among themselves after class.

I called the school to complain, and I wonder if I should have taken that step. What do you all think? Teachers have opinions too, should they be allowed to express them in class? Should that statement have been preceeded by a disclaimer, such as "my opinion is..."? Or should the teacher have kept his opinions to himself and just let the students discuss the topic?

You would have gotten faster results had you called the nearest mosque to complain. The teacher would have been fired. We know nothing would happen if the teacher made some bigotted remark about the Catholic Church or the Pope. I am well aware of the widespread barbarism in the name of Islam, and on the other hand I think the majority of Muslems are children-caring peace loving responsible citizens. Teachers need to be diplomatic when it comes to their opinions, especailly when it comes to the religious sensibilities of their students and thei parents.

 

[jarofthoughts]

In Plain English...can you tell me
1. What WAR is.

War:
- a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country, a state of competition or hostility between different people or groups or a sustained campaign against an undesirable situation or activity.
definition of war from Oxford Dictionaries Online

2. What Pedophilia is.

- sexual feelings directed towards children.
definition of paedophilia from Oxford Dictionaries Online

The exact definition of what is considered children might vary based on culture and geographic location.

3. What AN AGENCY that could be DOING it.

This sentence makes no sense.

 

[kepha31]

Then the teacher said that: "Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia".

Children say a lot of things about what their teacher allegedly said. It's third party info otherwise known as hearsay. It can't be reliable without a documented consensus. The teacher could have said: "Fringes of Islam are warelike but they do not represent Islam. Mohammed's marriage to a 9 year old was common for that culture, and the marraige would have been consummated when the child was old enough." Maybe that's what the teacher meant. It would have been politically correct and inoffensive to Muslems. We don't know for sure the exact context of the teacher's remarks.

 

[ChristineES]

Then the teacher said that: "Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia".

Children say a lot of things about what their teacher allegedly said. It's third party info otherwise known as hearsay. It can't be reliable without a documented consensus. The teacher could have said: "Fringes of Islam are warelike but they do not represent Islam. Mohammed's marriage to a 9 year old was common for that culture, and the marraige would have been consummated when the child was old enough." Maybe that's what the teacher meant. It would have been politically correct and inoffensive to Muslems. We don't know for sure the exact context of the teacher's remarks.

We would hope that if the principal spoke to the teacher, he would hear her out before making any judgments towards her and ask others about what they heard.

Welcome to the RF.

 

[drsatish]

War:
- a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country, a state of competition or hostility between different people or groups or a sustained campaign against an undesirable situation or activity.
definition of war from Oxford Dictionaries Online



- sexual feelings directed towards children.
definition of paedophilia from Oxford Dictionaries Online

The exact definition of what is considered children might vary based on culture and geographic location.



This sentence makes no sense.

So you agree there is NO Single Agency on Earth with its manifesto being War and Pedophilia.

War usually arises in the ‘mind’ of a single man and/or his close buddies. It usually arises due to the ‘greed for expansion and dominance.’
Alexander the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Genghis Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ashoka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
However, in the ‘modern’ world, the common man has to be ‘incessantly brainwashed’ first, for him to accept the risk of ‘glory’ & ‘death’. An example would be:
Google image search : Adolf Hitler Speech
However, very few of such minds finally realize the ‘utter folly’ of their initial thoughts and the resultant carnage. One such fine example would be King Ashoka.
Kalinga War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Edicts of Ashoka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So, using the analogy “cart before the horse”
Google Image Search: cart before the horse
I would recommend that the “common man” (cart) of ALL NATIONS & ALL RELIGIONS, SECTS, CULTS spend 50% of their non-personal time in watching such expansive tendencies in their ‘leaders’ (horses) and take collective action to CURB and DESTROY such aspirations to prevent the INEVITABLE CARNAGE of This Cart and That Cart. If the ‘horses’ are feeling too restless, they can be deported to a remote pacific island, where they can fight it out and the WINNER STAYS THERE!
Satish

 

[jarofthoughts]

So you agree there is NO Single Agency on Earth with its manifesto being War and Pedophilia.

I don't think I ever suggested there were.
What's your point?

 

[drsatish]

I don't think I ever suggested there were.
What's your point?

Neither did I.
It is for the “Teacher” to understand that “NO AGENCY exists in the world with the sole manifesto of War and Pedophilia.”
My point in general is “Don’t be Violent in Thoughts, Speech and Action.”
Satish

 

[drsatish]

Reading all these messages, the “Teacher” contacted me and asked how best he/she can get out of the situation. I said no probs, my fee is $ 9999. He/she agreed!
Here is what I suggested:

When you meet the Principal, ...SAY

Dear prince, don’t you know what I really am…

..what I SAID was…

.statements like

“Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia”

SHOULD NEVER be UTTERED by a Teacher in ANY CLASSROOM

…or in fact in the corridor or even in the canteen!

(same tactics/formula used by Politicians All over the World…when cornered!)

I guarantee that NOT ONLY will you NOT LOSE YOUR JOB,
but
Get a Medal from the Principal
&
Get Your Portrait hung in the School’s Hall of Fame as a “Teacher Exemplaire…”
Satish

 

[Dirty Penguin]

My daughter came to me last week about a concern she had. It had to do with a comment made by a teacher.

Apparently in her English class the students are asked to bring in newspaper articles to discuss, and the class is encouraged to give their opinions and discuss the article in class. I think this is a wonderful exercise in learning how to read and interpret the news, understanding different perspectives, expressing your own opinions, and reasoning through your own thoughts... No complaints about the exercise!!

However, one of the discussions led to religion. It was entirely appropriate based on the article and the direction that the discussion went in. Again, I have no problem with this in general...

Then the teacher said that: "Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia".

Apparently that resulted in an immediate end of discussion, the students were shocked and didn't know how to respond, many of them were bothered by the statement and discussed it among themselves after class.

I called the school to complain, and I wonder if I should have taken that step. What do you all think? Teachers have opinions too, should they be allowed to express them in class? Should that statement have been preceeded by a disclaimer, such as "my opinion is..."? Or should the teacher have kept his opinions to himself and just let the students discuss the topic?

I work as an IT professional for a local public school and we are taught to sensor our opinions around the kids.

That teacher's comment was inappropriate, the opinion itself was uneducated and flat out wrong.

 

[SarahRuth]

Reading all these messages, the “Teacher” contacted me and asked how best he/she can get out of the situation. I said no probs, my fee is $ 9999. He/she agreed!
Here is what I suggested:

When you meet the Principal, ...SAY

Dear prince, don’t you know what I really am…

..what I SAID was…

.statements like

“Islam only exists to justify war and pedophilia”

SHOULD NEVER be UTTERED by a Teacher in ANY CLASSROOM

…or in fact in the corridor or even in the canteen!

(same tactics/formula used by Politicians All over the World…when cornered!)

I guarantee that NOT ONLY will you NOT LOSE YOUR JOB,
but
Get a Medal from the Principal
&
Get Your Portrait hung in the School’s Hall of Fame as a “Teacher Exemplaire…”
Satish

There is no situation to get out of. Action was taken, it is on record as having happened, the classroom got an apology, the teacher kept his job. I didn't make a big stink out of this, I just made mention of it as something that was bothersome and might need to be addressed.

I don't approve of telling teachers to lie. I don't approve of anyone lying or telling anyone else to lie, period. The teacher made the statement, and it was his actual opinion, and that was verified by others in the class. The statement was inappropriate, and it was dealt with. Situation over. I think that went pretty well, actually.

 

[linwood]

I am baffled by this response. And I am typing this on my phone, so please overlook and typos and such...

"Authority figure" is not synonymous with "perfect". There are many people who fall into the category of an authority figure, and I don't see how you can avoid that fact. Police officers would be one. Your boss at work might be another. And, for kids, teachers. Those of us who do not homeschool... we send our children to a school everyday and they are expected to listen to and show respect for the teachers and school administrators. That makes them am authority figure. And we expect authority figures to hold themselves to a slightly higher standard. We expect them to set an example. That doesn't mean they never make mistakes.

We simply look at the world in different ways.

My child is taught that "no person" is deserving of a special level of respect due to nothing more than the title they hold or job they work.
My child is taught to respect those who have earned respect regardless of what standards society deems appropriate to hold them to.

Unfortunately many of the people in traditional positions of authority are the last people I want my child "giving" undeserved respect to.

I don`t see why that`s so "baffling".

The school addressed the situation by talking to a few students to get a better idea of exactly what happened and they then had a conversation with the teacher about being a role model. It was addressed and is now on record as having happened in case it happens again. I am happy with that. And the wellher did apologize to the class as well.

Excellent outcome it seems you handled a tricky situation quite well.

 

[SarahRuth]

We simply look at the world in different ways.

My child is taught that "no person" is deserving of a special level of respect due to nothing more than the title they hold or job they work.
My child is taught to respect those who have earned respect regardless of what standards society deems appropriate to hold them to.

Unfortunately many of the people in traditional positions of authority are the last people I want my child "giving" undeserved respect to.

I don`t see why that`s so "baffling".

I just don't understand how you can teach your children that nobody is derserving of respect until it's earned. So many people you run into in life and have to just assume they have earned their title until proven otherwise. And so many of them don't have much of a chance to prove anything... Police officers are the first such titles that come to mind. You can't just immediately disrespect a police officer, they ARE in a position of authority whether we like it or not. You wouldn't disrespect a judge. Hopefully you wouldn't disrecpect your boss and his/her authority. And I would hope my children would arrive in a classroom showing respect for the teacher, until the teacher proved him/herself unworthy of such respect.

 

[jarofthoughts]

There is no situation to get out of. Action was taken, it is on record as having happened, the classroom got an apology, the teacher kept his job. I didn't make a big stink out of this, I just made mention of it as something that was bothersome and might need to be addressed.

I don't approve of telling teachers to lie. I don't approve of anyone lying or telling anyone else to lie, period. The teacher made the statement, and it was his actual opinion, and that was verified by others in the class. The statement was inappropriate, and it was dealt with. Situation over. I think that went pretty well, actually.

Fully agree.

We teachers are humans like everyone else and as such we hold opinions that may or may not be mainstream or PC. But because of the position we hold it is extremely important that we maintain a professional attitude in the classroom and that we are very careful when expressing opinions, if doing that at all.
The classroom is a place for children to receive the best education we can provide them and it is not our personal soapbox from which we should express all our personal opinions about the world.

Present the facts.
Present the curriculum.
And while there is nothing wrong with doing so in an interesting and engaging manner, even with the use of sometimes provocative statements, the purpose is NOT for us to express our opinions.

The purpose is for the pupils to learn and think, and to form their OWN opinions.

Let me give you an actual example from one my my Science classes.

As I entered the class I started by saying:
“You’re all a right bunch of apes, aren’t you?”
The class of sixth-graders looked at me as if I had just told them that the sky was falling.
“No we’re not!”
I grinned.
“Oh, yes you are. Apes, one and all of you.”
More protests abounded. Some just sat there shocked that a teacher had just called them an ape.
I waited until the protests had died down.
“And now, I’m going to show you why.”

Thus began our class on Taxonomy.

When we were done the class agreed that not only were they all Apes, but also Eukaryotes, Animals, Vertebrates, Mammals and Primates belonging to the family of Hominidae.

Good times. ^_^

 

[linwood]

I just don't understand how you can teach your children that nobody is derserving of respect until it's earned.

I never said I teach nobody is deserving of respect until it`s earned.
I said I teach that no one is deserving of any "special" level of respect until it is earned.

So many people you run into in life and have to just assume they have earned their title until proven otherwise. And so many of them don't have much of a chance to prove anything... Police officers are the first such titles that come to mind.

The actions of police officers in my area over the past 30 years are a major reason why I teach my child NOT to offer them any respect above and beyond what they would offer anyone else.

I teach my kids to play their game but to know the truth..
I have informed my kids that the police are potentially the most dangerous group they will ever encounter.
They hold a great respect for their ability to harm them.

You can't just immediately disrespect a police officer, they ARE in a position of authority whether we like it or not. You wouldn't disrespect a judge. Hopefully you wouldn't disrecpect your boss and his/her authority. And I would hope my children would arrive in a classroom showing respect for the teacher, until the teacher proved him/herself unworthy of such respect.

Not at all, I wouldn`t outwardly disrespect any of the people mentioned above.
However the fact that I appear respectful of their positions should not be interpreted to mean I do in fact hold them in high regard because for the most part...I don`t.

I`m just playing their game because I have no other choice.

The fact that they hold power over me is no reason for me to hold legitimate respect for them.
I simply have to acknowledge/respect their power.
Respect for the position held would be going against my moral foundations.

 

[drsatish]

Fully agree.

We teachers are humans like everyone else and as such we hold opinions that may or may not be mainstream or PC. But because of the position we hold it is extremely important that we maintain a professional attitude in the classroom and that we are very careful when expressing opinions, if doing that at all.
The classroom is a place for children to receive the best education we can provide them and it is not our personal soapbox from which we should express all our personal opinions about the world.

Present the facts.
Present the curriculum.
And while there is nothing wrong with doing so in an interesting and engaging manner, even with the use of sometimes provocative statements, the purpose is NOT for us to express our opinions.

The purpose is for the pupils to learn and think, and to form their OWN opinions.

Let me give you an actual example from one my my Science classes.

As I entered the class I started by saying:
“You’re all a right bunch of apes, aren’t you?”
The class of sixth-graders looked at me as if I had just told them that the sky was falling.
“No we’re not!”
I grinned.
“Oh, yes you are. Apes, one and all of you.”
More protests abounded. Some just sat there shocked that a teacher had just called them an ape.
I waited until the protests had died down.
“And now, I’m going to show you why.”

Thus began our class on Taxonomy.

When we were done the class agreed that not only were they all Apes, but also Eukaryotes, Animals, Vertebrates, Mammals and Primates belonging to the family of Hominidae.

Good times. ^_^

Congratulations! On your EXPLAINING to your Class
that Humans ARE Apes!
But did you ALSO explain to them, that…..

APES…….are……ALSO……humans?

Satish

 

[jarofthoughts]

Congratulations! On your EXPLAINING to your Class
that Humans ARE Apes!
But did you ALSO explain to them, that…..

APES…….are……ALSO……humans?

Satish

I usually explain it something like this:
You know how BMWs are cars (excepting motorcycles and such), right?
And we also know that there are other types of cars, like Audis, Fords and so on.
Thus we can say that -all- BMWs are cars, but that not all cars are BMWs.

(Feel free to exchange "cars" with any similar category we use to denote something that is similar to each other. Many of the boys in my classes are way into cars so this analogy seems to get their attention... )

It's the same with the ape question.

All humans are apes, but not all apes are human.
Some of them are chimpanzees, orang-utans, gorillas and bonobos.

"Ape" is just a term we have chosen to represent a group of animals that taxonomically and genetically are closely related.

 

[drsatish]

I usually explain it something like this:
You know how BMWs are cars (excepting motorcycles and such), right?
And we also know that there are other types of cars, like Audis, Fords and so on.
Thus we can say that -all- BMWs are cars, but that not all cars are BMWs.

(Feel free to exchange "cars" with any similar category we use to denote something that is similar to each other. Many of the boys in my classes are way into cars so this analogy seems to get their attention... )

It's the same with the ape question.

All humans are apes, but not all apes are human.
Some of them are chimpanzees, orang-utans, gorillas and bonobos.

"Ape" is just a term we have chosen to represent a group of animals that taxonomically and genetically are closely related.

Sorry, I don’t understand WHAT you are Talking ABOUT!
Coz, I am a GIRL!
“All humans are apes, but not all apes are human.
Some of them are chimpanzees, orang-utans, gorillas and bonobos.”
WHAT does “SOME” MEAN in your statement?
1. Some of HUMANS are chimpanzees, orang-utans, gorillas and bonobos.
2. Some of APES are chimpanzees, orang-utans, gorillas and bonobos.
Though I MAY agree with Statement No. 1
I DEFINITELY DISAGREE….with a SCIENCE TEACHER who EQUATES
APES…with chimpanzees, orang-utans, gorillas and bonobos..
Taxonomically speaking Of Course!
Satish