Teacher's Unions

[Ponder This]

The methods were more effective than the alternative.

The methods were less effective as evidenced by the drop in student capability. If remote learning is more effective, then why return to in-school learning without masks?

I disagree that it is done for a selfish reason but rather they saw the two options of "ah lets just super spread during a pandemic that may kill several people vs having to do the next best thing of online learning."

Okay... you agree that there was a higher priority among teachers than learning. You just don't regard it as "self-interest".

I can't believe we are disrupting school to leave the burning building. Do you really think that leaving the school during a fire is the best way for the kids to learn? Kinda selfish of the teachers to do so.

This is not a comparable situation. Maybe try to not use an analogy. For example, Covid does not destroy school property nor is it a significant danger of death for children. Maybe if you had a fire that killed teachers but not children (?) and didn't destroy school buildings (?)... so just don't use an analogy. Try to talk directly about the issue.

 

[Friend of Mara]

The methods were less effective as evidenced by the drop in student capability. If remote learning is more effective, then why return to in-school learning without masks?

It is more effective than spreading the virus. Every single job on the planet got harder and less efficient due to things as we attempted to mitigate the harm of of the pandemic.

Okay... you agree that there was a higher priority among teachers than learning. You just don't regard it as "self-interest".

No more self interest than the rest of the world that has continued to work from home or to take other precautions during their workplace. I still have to stay 6 feet away from everyone and wear a mask. On occasion I even have to wear gloves. That isn't done for "self-interest" but rather playing a part in a greater goal.

This is not a comparable situation. Maybe try to not use an analogy. For example, Covid does not destroy school property nor is it a significant danger of death for children. Maybe if you had a fire that killed teachers but not children (?) and didn't destroy school buildings (?)... so just don't use an analogy. Try to talk directly about the issue.

It is clear that you do not care about the risks of covid therefore you don't believe anyone should be taking precautions against it. I cannot force you to come to reality on this matter. But if it helps you assume that covid is real and dangerous. Does their actions then not make sense?

 

[Shaul]

was the glasses to show a "gotchem"? Given the republican track record on funding education every single person within 10 square mile radius better vote democrat.

Unfortunately false. Yes there are many problems with public schools. It begins, ends and is filled in the middle with "funding". But charter schools often are exempt from standard of education which makes then nothing more than glorified daycares. At the end of the day public schools have an obligation to provide education. Even that bare necessity is sometimes not reached with charter schools.

I don't. Violence is as violence needs to be. Everyone is an advocate for violence in some way or another. It seems you are fine with the violence inflicted on employees by employers but not the other way around. Even the language of "thugs" was invented by the powers that be to dehumanize the struggles of the lower class. Though no unions have ever required a member to commit violence if that is what you are implying. Staunchly illegal at best and Ludacris at worst.

Having union requirements is fine. If they don't like it ...what was the saying..."find a different job"?

I suggest you more research the evidence shows that charter schools out perform public schools. This book might help, Charter Schools and Their Enemies by Thomas Sowell

Having union requirements to work are not only not fine they are flat out wrong. It used to be that the law forbid public employee unions. Even Franklin Delano Roosevelt opposed them. The laws outlawing public employee unions should be brought back.

 

[Friend of Mara]

I suggest you more research the evidence shows that charter schools out perform public schools. This book might help, Charter Schools and Their Enemies by Thomas Sowell

I'm somewhat familiar. Not greatly though. I do know he had issues with cherry picking as the average is slightly lower than public schools though some charter schools have significantly out preformed public schools. However in those instances every time one was investigated there were issues of bias. A common issue was that charter schools rejected candidates that didn't meet up to their criteria which would raise their overall preformance.

Some charter schools work great. But the reason why their average is so low despite all of these statistical advantages is that for every good charter school there is a terrible one. Mostly used in the south as a way of pushing creationist propaganda to crooks who are basically swindling money out of the hands of unsuspecting parents with a dream of a private education for their child.

Fix those issues. And then we can talk.

Having union requirements to work are not only not fine they are flat out wrong. It used to be that the law forbid public employee unions. Even Franklin Delano Roosevelt opposed them. The laws outlawing public employee unions should be brought back.

I disagree and since you didn't really give a reason why I can't respond other than "no". Though I am curious are you for abolishing the police union as well?

 

[metis]

I suggest you more research the evidence shows that charter schools out perform public schools.

Not here in Michigan as they are close to being the same according to a study done a few years ago by the Detroit Free Press but done through an independent study.

 

[Kooky]

Perhaps you failed to comprehend my post.
Do you disagree that since the pandemic started teaching methods have been less effective?
Do you disagree that teachers placed priority on their own self-interest as advocated by teacher's unions?
Do you disagree that teachers are aware of this?

Yes.

 

[Kooky]

Having union requirements to work are not only not fine they are flat out wrong.

I agree, the proper way to do it, is to simply have every worker be a union member by default.

 

[Ponder This]

It is more effective than spreading the virus. Every single job on the planet got harder and less efficient due to things as we attempted to mitigate the harm of of the pandemic.

I'm sorry but this statement of yours doesn't make sense. You are simultaneously claiming that learning was more effective and less efficient. Don't be attached to the outcome and examine the question with a calm mind.

No more self interest than the rest of the world that has continued to work from home or to take other precautions during their workplace. I still have to stay 6 feet away from everyone and wear a mask. On occasion I even have to wear gloves. That isn't done for "self-interest" but rather playing a part in a greater goal.

At the expense of learning.

It is clear that you do not care about the risks of covid therefore you don't believe anyone should be taking precautions against it. I cannot force you to come to reality on this matter. But if it helps you assume that covid is real and dangerous. Does their actions then not make sense?

Covid is real and dangerous. Moreover, their actions made sense.
Do you understand that actions have consequences (even when they seem to make sense)?
This isn't about hate. This is about knowledge. It was known that the risk of Covid to children was very very low and that closing schools would cause their learning to suffer greatly. It was also known that teachers had a risk from Covid. Teacher's unions made their decisions prioritizing... teachers... over students. Is there anything about that that doesn't make sense?

I get it, you want to argue that teachers were really thinking of the "greater good" and that they were instead willing to sacrifice the learning of the children for that "greater good". That also makes sense... it's just that it makes more sense that teacher's unions prioritized... teachers... because that is the primary purpose of teacher's unions - their raison d'existence. I think we can agree to disagree on whether or not teacher's unions acted out of "self-interest" or "greater good".

 

[metis]

I'm sorry but this statement of yours doesn't make sense. You are simultaneously claiming that learning was more effective and less efficient. Don't be attached to the outcome and examine the question with a calm mind.



At the expense of learning.



Covid is real and dangerous. Moreover, their actions made sense.
Do you understand that actions have consequences (even when they seem to make sense)?
This isn't about hate. This is about knowledge. It was known that the risk of Covid to children was very very low and that closing schools would cause their learning to suffer greatly. It was also known that teachers had a risk from Covid. Teacher's unions made their decisions prioritizing... teachers... over students. Is there anything about that that doesn't make sense?

I get it, you want to argue that teachers were really thinking of the "greater good" and that they were instead willing to sacrifice the learning of the children for that "greater good". That also makes sense... it's just that it makes more sense that teacher's unions prioritized... teachers... because that is the primary purpose of teacher's unions - their raison d'existence. I think we can agree to disagree on whether or not teacher's unions acted out of "self-interest" or "greater good".

I think you are underestimating a great many, if not most, teachers.

Let me put it this way: Probably most certainly didn't go into it for the money.