"Teaching Creationism is Child Abuse"

[fantome profane]

Yes, I am interested.

Well I will see if I can find some research on the subject. But just off the top of my head think about what a tail is used for. Quadrupeds primarily use it for balance, it is also used to keep away pests. New world monkeys have prehensile (gripping) tails, but old world monkeys don't. Some animals use them for comunication and display.

So we, and the other great apes are bipeds. We don't really need it for balance. Our arms and hands are free to swat away pests so we really don't need it for that either. Ok so maybe you still think it would be useful, but consider the disadvantages as well.

If you had a tail you would have this extra appendage that you don't really need. Something else to get caught in things, something else a predator could grab onto. It would be something else that could get cut, hurt, infected. Can you really think of any advantage that would outweigh those disadvantages? For a quadruped or a tree dwelling animal sure, but not for an ape.

So our ancestors with longer tails may have been caught by predators more often. Those with smaller tails would have been selected for. It wouldn't take too many generations for the tail to disappear altogether.

Does this explanation make sense?

 

[Euphoria]

When science comes to its final conclusion on truth, I will just push a button to see what this truth is. Until then I will live a life of true love, joy and peace. You know, all of the richness in life that science doesn't bring!

I created an account just to ask you this question.

I'm reading into that last line a bit, but I can't help but ask:

Is it not science that allows you a longer lifespan due to advances in medicine?

Is it not science that has picked away at the various diseases and ailments that might have riddled and damaged an otherwise healthy person?

Has it not made living more comfortable by providing the normal day with all sort of electronic alterations? Air conditioning when we might otherwise be overheating, heat when we might otherwise lose our ears to the cold, instant connections to ambulances, to relatives, to friends. Speedier travel and fast-paced living give all of us the chance to cram as many adventures are we can afford into our short little lives.

No, you do not need science to lead a rich life, and I would not claim that it is science itself that gives happiness... merely that it affords a great many of us the opportunity to discover love, joy, and peace for ourselves.

Science is one thing that gives you the opportunity to live your life as you see fit. It is not a hindrance, nor is it a helper. Science is knowledge, and with knowledge we have the ability to understand, and with understanding... well, all we have to do is apply ourselves, and we can do almost anything!

Why would you want to outright deny the effect that science has on the quality of your life?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Does this explanation make sense?

Yes it does.

 

[Walkntune]

I created an account just to ask you this question.

I'm reading into that last line a bit, but I can't help but ask:

Is it not science that allows you a longer lifespan due to advances in medicine?

Is it not science that has picked away at the various diseases and ailments that might have riddled and damaged an otherwise healthy person?

Has it not made living more comfortable by providing the normal day with all sort of electronic alterations? Air conditioning when we might otherwise be overheating, heat when we might otherwise lose our ears to the cold, instant connections to ambulances, to relatives, to friends. Speedier travel and fast-paced living give all of us the chance to cram as many adventures are we can afford into our short little lives.

No, you do not need science to lead a rich life, and I would not claim that it is science itself that gives happiness... merely that it affords a great many of us the opportunity to discover love, joy, and peace for ourselves.

Science is one thing that gives you the opportunity to live your life as you see fit. It is not a hindrance, nor is it a helper. Science is knowledge, and with knowledge we have the ability to understand, and with understanding... well, all we have to do is apply ourselves, and we can do almost anything!

Why would you want to outright deny the effect that science has on the quality of your life?

Maybe your right it doesn't add to or take away.Maybe we can enjoy our electronic toys but only under the threat of weapons of mass destruction.Maybe we can stay in constant touch with loved ones but strangers don't get aquainted nowhere near as often.It seems to me people are living in more of a state of fear but I could be wrong.We seem to live in more of a self serving enviornment now then years ago when people were more dependant on each other.I wonder how many families are so caught up on facebook they don't really communicate to each other anymore?
There might be some conveniences in the progression of science but I don't see it as advancing our love,joy, or peace.

 

[Riverwolf]

I created an account just to ask you this question.

I'm reading into that last line a bit, but I can't help but ask:

Is it not science that allows you a longer lifespan due to advances in medicine?

But does that add to the richness of life?

Is it not science that has picked away at the various diseases and ailments that might have riddled and damaged an otherwise healthy person?

See above.

Has it not made living more comfortable by providing the normal day with all sort of electronic alterations? Air conditioning when we might otherwise be overheating, heat when we might otherwise lose our ears to the cold, instant connections to ambulances, to relatives, to friends. Speedier travel and fast-paced living give all of us the chance to cram as many adventures are we can afford into our short little lives.

And does this not trivialize those adventures into routine? Do these comforts add richness to life or make it something that's taken so for granted that death is forgotten and life is likewise trivialized?

No, you do not need science to lead a rich life, and I would not claim that it is science itself that gives happiness... merely that it affords a great many of us the opportunity to discover love, joy, and peace for ourselves.

Science is one thing that gives you the opportunity to live your life as you see fit. It is not a hindrance, nor is it a helper. Science is knowledge, and with knowledge we have the ability to understand, and with understanding... well, all we have to do is apply ourselves, and we can do almost anything!

Why would you want to outright deny the effect that science has on the quality of your life?

While I love science to death, I consider myself not enriched by my standard of living, but spoiled by it.

Through technological innovations I have glimpsed the eyes of those whose lifespans are but a fraction of what mine will likely be. I have glimpsed the eyes of a mother who had 12 children, nine of whom had died. In those eyes, I see a fire that I can never have.

I have heard the words of a man who left his family to seek a life of asceticism. His words: when you only eat once every 24 hours, you know the truth.

Bushido of Japan has taught that the immediacy of death and the constant recognition of that brings a richness and fulfillment to life that can otherwise never be had. When death is something that can happen at any time, and this is remembered though not to the extent of despair, our duties will more likely be fulfilled, and we will value even more our families and loved ones, for they may not be there on the morrow.

These are pearls of wisdom that I can never truly understand and internalize because I have been spoiled by my quality of life.

 

[Me Myself]

But does that add to the richness of life?.

Yes and no. It gives you more time and thus oportunities to make it rich

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes and no. It gives you more time and thus oportunities to make it rich

Very true.

But who would take advantage of such opportunities?

 

[Skwim]

I don't care; you were the one who pretended to ask me a question only to decide to decide to answer it on my behalf, and then you still have the gall to get uppity when I've told you it's rude and not to do it? Seriously?

"I suspect you have a personal investment in limiting its meaning to X, Y or Z" is not answering the question I asked, which was "So just what is child abuse, actually?" It's a remark explaining why you need not answer; not what the answer to the question may be. *

I'm not going to play nice guy to people who're not being nice to me. Play nice and I will.

Curious as to what I said that you construe as not nice. And, just so you don't have to hunt up the post to point it out, here it is (post #73).

So just what is child abuse, actually? No need to answer because I suspect you have a personal investment in limiting its meaning to X, Y or Z. While an attempt to hijack a label for a narrow interest is understandable--it reinforces the importance one needs to invest it with, it's a dishonest one. In this case, "THESE and ONLY THESE are worthy of the title" proclaims limits that were never intended. The fact is, the simple two-word description "child abuse" is vague enough to admit a whole list of conditions, and by suggesting that using it to describe these other abuses, trivializes it, one can easily conclude your reasoning is less than rational. Sexual and physical child abuse will always be reprehensible in their own right, and need no special label to make them so. That you seem to need one may be saying more than you care to disclose.

In any case, as it stands your argument isn't persuading.

Is there something wrong with that.

Nope.

Why bring it up if you don't want to discuss it?

You mean you can't discuss an observation? I'm disappointed.

 

[outhouse]

I created an account just to ask you this question.

I'm reading into that last line a bit, but I can't help but ask:

Is it not science that allows you a longer lifespan due to advances in medicine?

Is it not science that has picked away at the various diseases and ailments that might have riddled and damaged an otherwise healthy person?

Has it not made living more comfortable by providing the normal day with all sort of electronic alterations? Air conditioning when we might otherwise be overheating, heat when we might otherwise lose our ears to the cold, instant connections to ambulances, to relatives, to friends. Speedier travel and fast-paced living give all of us the chance to cram as many adventures are we can afford into our short little lives.

No, you do not need science to lead a rich life, and I would not claim that it is science itself that gives happiness... merely that it affords a great many of us the opportunity to discover love, joy, and peace for ourselves.

Science is one thing that gives you the opportunity to live your life as you see fit. It is not a hindrance, nor is it a helper. Science is knowledge, and with knowledge we have the ability to understand, and with understanding... well, all we have to do is apply ourselves, and we can do almost anything!

Why would you want to outright deny the effect that science has on the quality of your life?

Im giving you frubals for the truth.



Most people do not understand that without science, we would probably all be dead now.

We are only alive due to the efforts of the highly trained people at CDC who use technology surronding evolution to try and stay one step ahead of diseases that would wipe us out, without the valid effort science commits to on a daily basis.


Ancient mythology doesnt stop severe diseases, no deity has ever stopped a severe disease ever, less faith in such providing a will to live.

Science however is on the front line in a daily effort that does keep us all alive.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I don't know, if that's what you really believe happened then it really did happen to you. Honestly, we were taught evolution in our Biology class, but that didn't bother me because I believe evolution really did happen. Am I biologist? Have I looked into and studied evolution myself? No.

Literally, creationism is just trusting a bunch of ministers, books, and recorded experiences. But because I haven't tested the carbon dating on these fossils myself, so am I.

Just be happy Creationism is only taught in private schools.

 

[outhouse]

Very true.

But who would take advantage of such opportunities?

Everyone.

I think we all owe our lives to science. Yet it requires no worship.


Population levels this high, could not sustain these levels or quality, without sciences help.


Advancements in science is exactly why we dont have 40% mortality rates for shildren up to 5 years of age, like they did in Galilee in the first century.

 

[Riverwolf]

Everyone.

I think we all owe our lives to science. Yet it requires no worship.

Population levels this high, could not sustain these levels or quality, without sciences help.

Advancements in science is exactly why we dont have 40% mortality rates for shildren up to 5 years of age, like they did in Galilee in the first century.

That's not what I meant.

How, exactly, are lower mortality rates and higher life expectancies automatically enriching?

From what I've observed, most people don't enrich their lives at all with such high standards of living, but just... exist, enjoying all the new toys we have with little or no regard for their own mortality or specialness. Sure, we all know we die, but how many youngsters truly recognize that they will one day die? How many people have to suffer a midlife crisis before enriching their own lives?

I think we need to more specifically agree upon what exactly enriching life actually means.

 

[outhouse]

That's not what I meant.

How, exactly, are lower mortality rates and higher life expectancies automatically enriching?

From what I've observed, most people don't enrich their lives at all with such high standards of living, but just... exist, enjoying all the new toys we have with little or no regard for their own mortality or specialness. Sure, we all know we die, but how many youngsters truly recognize that they will one day die? How many people have to suffer a midlife crisis before enriching their own lives?

I think we need to more specifically agree upon what exactly enriching life actually means.

Your asking a great question.

But more of personal issues that wouldnt exist without sciences intervention.

But to address your primary concern, would be the advancement in communication and the ability now to have so much information at your fingertips.


Knowledge is know easier to access, and im not sure anyone would argue knowledge isnt enriching.

 

[outhouse]

And to compound on that, it is exactly the reason why the bible is such an epic icon the likes and beauty will be hard pressed to ever get condensed into one version again.

For primitive and modern people, the knowledge shared through mythologuy, parables, poems, songs, metaphors and legends was able to spread vast knoweldge to the far ends of the earth for all to learn from.

Its to bad so many people were wrongfully taught to take it out of context and try and take a book ment to heal and fix, and replace modern science with ancient mans beauty and mythology.

I guess it goes to prove, a little knowledge can be dangerous.

 

[Walkntune]

We are only alive due to the efforts of the highly trained people at CDC who use technology surronding evolution to try and stay one step ahead of diseases that would wipe us out, without the valid effort science commits to on a daily basis.

How can you be so sure we are not the cause of this evolutionary race?

 

[outhouse]

How can you be so sure we are not the cause of this evolutionary race?

I dont understand your question friend.

Diseases factually evolve.

 

[outhouse]

Riverwolf

In this country it isnt as noticeable. But if you have ever been to thirld world countries and seen the way these poor people barely survive, you would understand religion gives them hope while science is busy working to keep them alive.

We are on the edge of a epidemic as malaria has evolved to the point our drugs are not working anymore. The mosquito is the number one killer in the world today.

Im not argueing against you by the way, just bring the importance of evolution to the forfront of this conversation, to show certain people how imortant science really is compared to ancient mans books doing nothing at all to stop the progression of disease that is tearing peoples lives to shreds in poor poverty stricken places.

 

[Walkntune]

I dont understand your question friend.

Diseases factually evolve.

Just saying the more dependant we are on meds than our immune system to overcome disease, the more disease will evolve to our meds and the more dependant we will have to be on meds.

 

[outhouse]

If we want to help people the way religion is supposed to teach us to really help others, you dont put up road blocks as a theist do claiming their mythology trumps science. You dont fight science if you want to help your fellow man, you dont fight to replace knowledge in schools with mythology.

Theist have a responsibility to stand behind and back science 100% and not try and limit knowledge, if their goal is really to help their fellow man, you advance knowledge.

 

[outhouse]

Just saying the more dependant we are on meds than our immune system to overcome disease, the more disease will evolve to our meds and the more dependant we will have to be on meds.

But its to the point where they are only trying to save lives theism cannot.

Malaria has factually evolved to teh point it may be hard to contain.

Without science work in HIV who knows how many would now be dead. Not a big deal here, google the issue in africa where ignorance is the real killer.

Pandemics are a very very real threat facing us every year.


talk about quality of life

Look at how bad the flue is this year in the usa due to the different strains evolving ahead of the cure.

My life is directly affected by the quality of health in my family, and religion isnt lifting a finger to help a single person in my religious family, but science is fighting right now desperately trying to stay one step ahead.