"Teaching Creationism is Child Abuse"

[outhouse]

But friend.

Without the meds we die.

Without science we die. So why fight science ?

Nature has a way of protecting over population, its called bacteria and viruses.

 

[Walkntune]

But its to the point where they are only trying to save lives theism cannot.

Malaria has factually evolved to teh point it may be hard to contain.

Without science work in HIV who knows how many would now be dead. Not a big deal here, google the issue in africa where ignorance is the real killer.

Pandemics are a very very real threat facing us every year.


talk about quality of life

Look at how bad the flue is this year in the usa due to the different strains evolving ahead of the cure.

My life is directly affected by the quality of health in my family, and religion isnt lifting a finger to help a single person in my religious family, but science is fighting right now desperately trying to stay one step ahead.

I suppose man may come to the end of himself one day against nature. May grace be there.

 

[Father Heathen]

You mean because I don't bow down to the alter of science like many of you do?

If I accept that 2 + 2 =4, does that mean I "bow down to the altar of math"?

Many things turn out to be false like when science told me we where headed for another ice age not so long ago. Who was willfully ignorant then?

It's about gaining knowledge and understanding, whereas religion wallows in stagnation.

Science acts like it has all the answers, but I am still waiting on a cure for cancer or at least show me the missing link.

Science is a method, limited only by human knowledge, which is something that grows.

Why do I not observe evolution? Is it still happening?

It is observable (bacteria that becomes resistant to disease, for one example) and it is still happening.

If I came from apes, why do we still have apes?

We came from a primate ancestor, not from our modern ape cousins. This is yet another question that has been answered repeatedly. If you're not paying attention, why are you bothering to show up?

Should I not see any changes in any species over my life time or at least pictures from earlier periods?

Changes are very gradual and takes place over many millennia. There is a plethora of information on evolution readily available with the a few clicks of the mouse, if you had a genuine desire to learn and understand.

Why no fossil evidence?

There is. Open those eyes and ears, son.

I guess I should just take science all on faith right?

No, it's called observation, testing and examination of data. Science brought you the medicine and technology that you enjoy. What business do you have being on a computer if you disavow science?

 

[Walkntune]

But friend.

Without the meds we die.

Without science we die. So why fight science ?

Nature has a way of protecting over population, its called bacteria and viruses.

Not against it.There is just more to life than living and dying.

 

[Riverwolf]

Riverwolf

In this country it isnt as noticeable. But if you have ever been to thirld world countries and seen the way these poor people barely survive, you would understand religion gives them hope while science is busy working to keep them alive.

We are on the edge of a epidemic as malaria has evolved to the point our drugs are not working anymore. The mosquito is the number one killer in the world today.

Im not argueing against you by the way, just bring the importance of evolution to the forfront of this conversation, to show certain people how imortant science really is compared to ancient mans books doing nothing at all to stop the progression of disease that is tearing peoples lives to shreds in poor poverty stricken places.

But, to be fair, modern medicine is still stemmed from ancient and medieval medicinal techniques and knowledge, which was still considerable. It just wasn't as all-encompassing or necessarily effective as it is today.

I'm certainly not trying to trivialize scientific advancements, or sound ungrateful. I'm also CERTAINLY NOT trying to imply that "third-world countries have it better", 'cause they most certainly do not. I wasn't talking about them when I referred to the fiery-eyed people earlier.

Knowledge of how evolution works has given us opportunities that we didn't have before to further enrich our lives in ways our ancestors only could with the omnipresent threat of impending death, since we now can live much longer. Our standard of living certainly hasn't automatically taken away that enriching force anymore than it's automatically added to it.

It was, after all, the civilizations who had the best medicine and highest standards of living that pioneered mathematics, philosophy, and science, and at least had enough enrichment to maintain and appreciate such things, even if the majority of people simply lived passively from day to day as we do now.

(Thanks for bringing evolution back to the forefront, BTW.)

 

[Riverwolf]

If we want to help people the way religion is supposed to teach us to really help others, you dont put up road blocks as a theist do claiming their mythology trumps science. You dont fight science if you want to help your fellow man, you dont fight to replace knowledge in schools with mythology.

Theist have a responsibility to stand behind and back science 100% and not try and limit knowledge, if their goal is really to help their fellow man, you advance knowledge.

A wise philosophy that ancient and medieval people certainly knew... mostly.

They didn't let their mythologies and religions hold them back.

 

[Euphoria]

Maybe your right it doesn't add to or take away.Maybe we can enjoy our electronic toys but only under the threat of weapons of mass destruction.Maybe we can stay in constant touch with loved ones but strangers don't get aquainted nowhere near as often.It seems to me people are living in more of a state of fear but I could be wrong.We seem to live in more of a self serving enviornment now then years ago when people were more dependant on each other.I wonder how many families are so caught up on facebook they don't really communicate to each other anymore?
There might be some conveniences in the progression of science but I don't see it as advancing our love,joy, or peace.

I didn't quite mean that when I said "not hindering nor helping", I meant that science itself is a neutral force. People will always be able to choose to use for the advancement or the detriment of others. It is a human choice.

As to your other points, I just don't see a problem with those things. It is up to the individual person if they fail to connect with others, if they rely too much on technology to solve their problems. It would be great if these things were rectified within society, but denouncing science just because people interact differently than they did years ago is throwing the baby out with the bathwater imo.

A child surviving any disease and growing up to be healthy is something that brings love and joy to the family of that child. And this is something that is often achievable only because of science. Why is the way strangers are disconnected with each other less favorable than, like outhouse said, a very high infant mortality rate?

Most people do not understand that without science, we would probably all be dead now.

Yes, exactly. I would have died from appendicitis a few years back if it we didn't understand infections. And it would have been pretty darn horrible, too. And I would never have the rest of my life to explore "peace and joy".

But does that add to the richness of life?

No, and I never said it did. I merely said it gives us excess health, time, and variety, and thus the ability to enrich our lives in many more ways than we would have without it, if we were even alive at all.

It's hard to enjoy life if you died as an infant...

And does this not trivialize those adventures into routine? Do these comforts add richness to life or make it something that's taken so for granted that death is forgotten and life is likewise trivialized?

Only if you let it? It seems to me it's up to the individual to find meaning in their adventures... It's only trivialized if you believe it is. It seems self-fulfilling to me. Is the last drink of water you take less satisfying than the first, just because you've drunken water before? I don't see why it would be.

Sitting comfortable on a couch does not trivialize life. It means you'll have less back aches than if you sat with no back support at all.

Or maybe I don't understand what you're saying.

We do not need to suffer plague and our eyes need not witness death wherever they go, so that we may love life, live well, and live fulfilled.


I'm a little late to this race and it probably wasn't necessary replying, but I am enjoying the end of my two-year long lurk and feel very much like joining in.

 

[outhouse]

A wise philosophy that ancient and medieval people certainly knew... mostly.

They didn't let their mythologies and religions hold them back.

Understood.

Its what made Jesus so popular.

he offered what has been described as free health care to the poor oppressed people. Back then he did what he could do to help as many as possible.

People often forget he was possibly a real healer, not just magically wishing away disease.

 

[outhouse]

But, to be fair, modern medicine is still stemmed from ancient and medieval medicinal techniques and knowledge, which was still considerable. It just wasn't as all-encompassing or necessarily effective as it is today.

I'm certainly not trying to trivialize scientific advancements, or sound ungrateful. I'm also CERTAINLY NOT trying to imply that "third-world countries have it better", 'cause they most certainly do not. I wasn't talking about them when I referred to the fiery-eyed people earlier.

Knowledge of how evolution works has given us opportunities that we didn't have before to further enrich our lives in ways our ancestors only could with the omnipresent threat of impending death, since we now can live much longer. Our standard of living certainly hasn't automatically taken away that enriching force anymore than it's automatically added to it.

It was, after all, the civilizations who had the best medicine and highest standards of living that pioneered mathematics, philosophy, and science, and at least had enough enrichment to maintain and appreciate such things, even if the majority of people simply lived passively from day to day as we do now.

(Thanks for bringing evolution back to the forefront, BTW.)

And I agree whole hearted.

 

[Walkntune]

A child surviving any disease and growing up to be healthy is something that brings love and joy to the family of that child. And this is something that is often achievable only because of science. Why is the way strangers are disconnected with each other less favorable than, like outhouse said, a very high infant mortality rate?

Not denouncing it.It is just far from having the value of the love and joy.

 

[Euphoria]

Not denouncing it.It is just far from having the value of the love and joy.

Fair enough. Though I, again, am not saying science itself = love. I am only suggesting that it can be used as a tool that can and often does bring about joy. Though I guess that that wouldn't be widely disputed in the first place.

 

[Walkntune]

Fair enough. Though I, again, am not saying science itself = love. I am only suggesting that it can be used as a tool that can and often does bring about joy. Though I guess that that wouldn't be widely disputed in the first place.

No not at all!(smiling)

 

[Walkntune]

If we want to help people the way religion is supposed to teach us to really help others, you dont put up road blocks as a theist do claiming their mythology trumps science. You dont fight science if you want to help your fellow man, you dont fight to replace knowledge in schools with mythology.

Theist have a responsibility to stand behind and back science 100% and not try and limit knowledge, if their goal is really to help their fellow man, you advance knowledge.

I don't personally feel it is the road blocks to knowledge that is interfering with the salvation of man .I think skeptics (not the church)have always held back more progress than anyone in the field of science. I think in the end though it will be hate and not lack of knowledge(at least scientific) that will take us out.

 

[shawn001]

Science studies the chemical and electrical signals of love and the brain.

Oxytocin and dopamine are extremely important "love" chemicals.

"Love Activates Same Brain Areas as Cocaine, Study Shows"

Love Activates Same Brain Areas as Cocaine, Study Shows - The New York Sun

Learning is extremely good for a healthy brain and brain growth.

 

[shawn001]

I don't personally feel it is the road blocks to knowledge that is interfering with the salvation of man .I think skeptics (not the church)have always held back more progress than anyone in the field of science. I think in the end though it will be hate and not lack of knowledge(at least scientific) that will take us out.

The church has help back or ignored a ton of science discoveries and still does.

There is a lot of Hate between religions because of the lack of religious tolerance.

Science has the potential to treat hate in the not to distant future.

There are no facts to teach creationism and science is based on facts otherwise it would be a science.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, and I never said it did. I merely said it gives us excess health, time, and variety, and thus the ability to enrich our lives in many more ways than we would have without it, if we were even alive at all.

It's hard to enjoy life if you died as an infant...

Indeed, it is.

Only if you let it? It seems to me it's up to the individual to find meaning in their adventures... It's only trivialized if you believe it is. It seems self-fulfilling to me. Is the last drink of water you take less satisfying than the first, just because you've drunken water before? I don't see why it would be.

Sitting comfortable on a couch does not trivialize life. It means you'll have less back aches than if you sat with no back support at all.

Or maybe I don't understand what you're saying.

We do not need to suffer plague and our eyes need not witness death wherever they go, so that we may love life, live well, and live fulfilled.

You are correct. But it can be more difficult depending on the situation. The more you have, the more you have to lose, as it were.

Besides, we actually do get acclimated to stimuli over time, so that it loses its potency. Once novelty wears off, we have to go chasing after some new novel thing.

A friend of mine has reported that people who engage in extreme sports are often very nice people, and can be very wise in their own way. I don't know how true it is, but it does make sense.

I'm a little late to this race and it probably wasn't necessary replying, but I am enjoying the end of my two-year long lurk and feel very much like joining in.

Welcome. I see you have a lot to contribute, and look forward to more discussions and debates with you.

 

[Walkntune]

=shawn001;3234629]The church has help back or ignored a ton of science discoveries and still does.

Well we are still working on controlling the internet!

There is a lot of Hate between religions because of the lack of religious tolerance.

Or maybe just power and control as one man tries to control how another should or should not believe.

Science has the potential to treat hate in the not to distant future.

I don't think cocaine is the answer. We have tried already.

There are no facts to teach creationism and science is based on facts otherwise it would be a science

Is all science based on facts?

 

[Riverwolf]

Is all science based on facts?

Well... actually, science is based on observation, either direct or indirect.

 

[Me Myself]

Very true.

But who would take advantage of such opportunities?

S/he who does

I am not sure I understand e question. Almost nothing is good or bad in itself. You can say only happiness or love may be good or bad in itself. Everything else is what we make of it. Science is a knowledge, and can be used as a tool. Purposegully closing your eyes and ears to is tool is denial, denial is rarely conducive to the fullest of lifes in any aspect.

Closing oneself to knowledge means closing oneself to oportuties, doing so because of wishiwishing is a dangerous attitude for life in general.

 

[Walkntune]

Well... actually, science is based on observation, either direct or indirect.

Some can only observe on a surface level with a materialistic view and some observe with depth beneath the surface.This can always create a dilema even among the sciences.