teen pregnancy

[Smoke]

Okay, since I couldn't find a map for teen pregnancies, I made my own. This is based on the data for 2005 for girls 15 to 19, and is for pregnancies, not for births.

[Hold on, I posted the wrong map.]

Okay, corrected now, and I went ahead and added Canada while I was at it.

Yet another edit:

The highest teen pregnancy rates (per 1,000) in the U.S. and Canada are:

1. District of Columbia: 165
2. Nunavut: 146
3. New Mexico: 93
4. Nevada: 90
5. Arizona: 89
6. Texas: 88
7. Mississippi: 85
8. Delaware: 83
9. Arkansas: 80
10. Georgia: 80

 

[MW0082]

No - the important thing would be to reduce the teen PREGNANCY rate rather than rely on abortion to cull the ranks.

And you would accomplish this how?

Celebicy does not work, Scare tactics do not work. It's obvious the more you try to prevent them from having sex the more they do, and the more they end up having issues of gettign pregnant.

Maybe it's time to start talking to our youth about safe sex, and making sure they are provided with the right tools they will need not to get pregnant. Too bad religion is blind not to see what is REALLY needed....

 

[Kathryn]

And you would accomplish this how?

Celebicy does not work, Scare tactics do not work. It's obvious the more you try to prevent them from having sex the more they do, and the more they end up having issues of gettign pregnant.

Maybe it's time to start talking to our youth about safe sex, and making sure they are provided with the right tools they will need not to get pregnant. Too bad religion is blind not to see what is REALLY needed....

Oh, we're not talking to our youth about safe sex? Wow, where do you live? I graduated from high school thirty years ago and even THEN we were learning about safe sex - and this was in rural Georgia.

Also, I was raised in a Christian home, and my parents talked with me about sex in a very open manner.

Like I've said, the issue is not so simple. It's not simply a matter of fault with RELIGION. It's a combination of factors, which also include subcultures that CONDONE OR ACCEPT a high teen pregnancy rate. We have to look at ALL factors when trying to solve this problem.

Unfortunately, there are several subcultures in play in these states/areas which accept and in some cases support teen pregnancy. For the most part, these subcultures also include higher-than-average poverty rates and lower-than-average educational levels.

Most kids these days are INUNDATED with programs and education that touts safe sex, and in fact, teen pregnancy rates have fallen over the past 20 years. But until we can reverse the norms and expectations of socioeconomic subcultures, there will continue to be higher-than-average rates of teen pregnancy.

 

[MW0082]

Oh, we're not talking to our youth about safe sex? Wow, where do you live? I graduated from high school thirty years ago and even THEN we were learning about safe sex - and this was in rural Georgia.

You're only ONE person, we cannot sit here and judge how good of a job one place does to another or as whole by just one person. This doesn't take into account the many young teens who no matter what they hear in school, they end up being told the total opposite by their parents and church. So no we are not talking and preparing our youth properly,... I mean thats blatanly obvious

Also, I was raised in a Christian home, and my parents talked with me about sex in a very open manner.

Good for you, were you encouraged to use condoms and birth control? I will tell you right now that most are not.... It's celibicy, and I don't care where you were raised or how. Again your one person and there is always an exception to the rule.

Like I've said, the issue is not so simple. It's not simply a matter of fault with RELIGION. It's a combination of factors, which also include subcultures that CONDONE OR ACCEPT a high teen pregnancy rate. We have to look at ALL factors when trying to solve this problem.

I never said it was ALL religion, but it is partial to religion. Again lets not use just you as the subject matter here, you're not the median for us all.

Unfortunately, there are several subcultures in play in these states/areas which accept and in some cases support teen pregnancy. For the most part, these subcultures also include higher-than-average poverty rates and lower-than-average educational levels.

I think this is ignorance, if they are not being provided the right tools and ideas to have sefa sex, then we are not doing something right.

Most kids these days are INUNDATED with programs and education that touts safe sex, and in fact, teen pregnancy rates have fallen over the past 20 years. But until we can reverse the norms and expectations of socioeconomic subcultures, there will continue to be higher-than-average rates of teen pregnancy.

This is ignorance pure and simple, maybe even racist. It has nothing to do with the subcultures. It has eveyrthing to do with how we deal with it, from the get go. I hate to tell you this, but look around the world. Take South America or Africa. Teen pregnancy rates and AIDS are higher because the churches convinced them not to use protection. You think for one instance that is not an issue in the USA? It is very muchso....

 

[Kathryn]

This is ignorance pure and simple, maybe even racist. It has nothing to do with the subcultures. It has eveyrthing to do with how we deal with it, from the get go. I hate to tell you this, but look around the world. Take South America or Africa. Teen pregnancy rates and AIDS are higher because the churches convinced them not to use protection. You think for one instance that is not an issue in the USA? It is very muchso....

So you think that teen pregnancy rates in Africa are due to RELIGION?

Give me a freaking break.

You keep throwing the race card out. The fact of the matter is that teen pregnancy rates ARE higher in the black and hispanic populations, as well as poorer and less educated populations, regardless of race. In some cases, these classes overlap - in other words, teen pregnancy rates are HIGHEST among low income and/or minority populations.

Also - teen pregnancies are more ACCEPTED in these cultures. This isn't due to simply religious teachings, which OPPOSE sex before marriage in most cases. This is a societal issue that goes much deeper than religion.

 

[MW0082]

So you think that teen pregnancy rates in Africa are due to RELIGION?

Give me a freaking break.

You keep throwing the race card out. The fact of the matter is that teen pregnancy rates ARE higher in the black and hispanic populations, as well as poorer and less educated populations, regardless of race. In some cases, these classes overlap - in other words, teen pregnancy rates are HIGHEST among low income and/or minority populations.

Also - teen pregnancies are more ACCEPTED in these cultures. This isn't due to simply religious teachings, which OPPOSE sex before marriage in most cases. This is a societal issue that goes much deeper than religion.

Yes your racist attitude is right...

Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids | World news | The Guardian

BBC NEWS | Africa | Pope condemns condoms: Your views

The big church IS IN FACT telling these poor ridden countries not to use condoms. Don't know where you're getting your facts from, but they are wrong. I also would not go with they accept teen pregnancies. I am gonna need a source for that....

 

[Kathryn]

The source is the communities THEMSELVES. Whether you believe it or not, there are many subcultures which accept teen pregnancy and unwed motherhood more readily than others. Among those subcultures are: poorer and more uneducated groups, and, in the US, the black community. Hispanic groups have a higher than national average teen MARRIAGE rate, and in fact, teen marriage is more accepted in many Hispanic cultures, so naturally their teen pregnancy rate is higher.

I personally work with a girl from a very wealthy Hispanic family. In fact, her parents live right across the street from me. She got married, with her family's blessings, at age 16, and got pregnant in that marriage at age 18, after graduating from high school. This is not an uncommon scenario. She's still married to the guy, and their little boy is about four now. It's amazing to me that they have actually stayed married now for six years. I don't condone that - but in their particular culture, it's not unusual or unexpected.

 

[MW0082]

The source is the communities THEMSELVES. Whether you believe it or not, there are many subcultures which accept teen pregnancy and unwed motherhood more readily than others. Among those subcultures are: poorer and more uneducated groups, and, in the US, the black community. Hispanic groups have a higher than national average teen MARRIAGE rate, and in fact, teen marriage is more accepted in many Hispanic cultures, so naturally their teen pregnancy rate is higher.

I personally work with a girl from a very wealthy Hispanic family. In fact, her parents live right across the street from me. She got married, with her family's blessings, at age 16, and got pregnant in that marriage at age 18, after graduating from high school. This is not an uncommon scenario. She's still married to the guy, and their little boy is about four now. It's amazing to me that they have actually stayed married now for six years. I don't condone that - but in their particular culture, it's not unusual or unexpected.

If that were true there would be some information some where, not just your general observation. Pregnant at 18 is not the issue, pregnant at 14 IS. That is what I think we are discussing, and I am sure there are no cultures that accept that.

Also I provided proof that the Church does indeed convince poorer countries not to use condoms. Which is ****** up if you ask me....

 

[Kathryn]

If that were true there would be some information some where, not just your general observation. Pregnant at 18 is not the issue, pregnant at 14 IS. That is what I think we are discussing, and I am sure there are no cultures that accept that.

Also I provided proof that the Church does indeed convince poorer countries not to use condoms. Which is ****** up if you ask me....

"The church" in question is the Roman Catholic church - hardly a bastion of fundamentalism, though there are some small fundamentalist sects and groups within that very large organization.

Nor is the RCC the dominant religion in most of the states in question. The OP is discussing teen pregnancy rates in the US - and I'm limiting my discussion to the US as well.

Teen is teen - I wasn't aware that "we" were discussing pregnancies limited to 14-15 year olds on this thread.

You may have been, but I haven't been limiting my discussion to younger teens. I've been simply discussing TEEN pregnancies - in other words, ages 13-19. The stats I've provided have included all teens as well.

So apparently you are expanding the OP to include discussion of teen pregnancies in other countries, and limiting the OP to discussing only younger teens.

I'm sticking to the original issues presented - teen pregancy rates in the US, and whether or not they are directly tied to religious beliefs. Bringing up Vatican proclamations directed at other countries, and limiting the discussion to younger teens is essentially changing the focus of the OP.

One final note - I've already posted the information on teen pregnancy rates in the black, hispanic, and white populations in the US. So it's not just "my general observation," but rather, it's a FACT that the teen pregnancy rates in the black and Hispanic populations far outpaces the rates in the white population.

It's also pretty easy to find info on marriage ages in different groups. I've researched that before, and posted it on another thread once, but I'm disinclined to research it again since apparently you're not really all that interested in facts - but instead seem more interested in simply screaming "Racist!" instead.

I can assure you that I'm about as far from racist as a person can get.

 

[MW0082]

"The church" in question is the Roman Catholic church - hardly a bastion of fundamentalism, though there are some small fundamentalist sects and groups within that very large organization.

It doesn't matter I was giving a prime example of a religion that tells our youth not to use condoms. However, it happens in the USA all the time. Mainly in catholic churches, but it happens. So lets not deny this please....

Nor is the RCC the dominant religion in most of the states in question. The OP is discussing teen pregnancy rates in the US - and I'm limiting my discussion to the US as well.

Fine lets limit to the US, your stats are still wrong. the information you are providing is inaccurate and biased.

Teen is teen - I wasn't aware that "we" were discussing pregnancies limited to 14-15 year olds on this thread.

No teen is not teen and if you want to discuss the US then we can take out 17 and above bc that is legal consent ok..... We are talking about dependent teens not teens who can have jobs and buy cigarettes and even their own places. There is a HUGE difference between a 13 year old having achild and an 18 year old.

You may have been, but I haven't been limiting my discussion to younger teens. I've been simply discussing TEEN pregnancies - in other words, ages 13-19. The stats I've provided have included all teens as well.

Your stats are wrong

So apparently you are expanding the OP to include discussion of teen pregnancies in other countries, and limiting the OP to discussing only younger teens.

I am expanding it to give you an example of how religion does in fact play a role in the deciding factors if the teen is getting the right info. Which they are not..... Do try to keep up

I'm sticking to the original issues presented - teen pregancy rates in the US, and whether or not they are directly tied to religious beliefs. Bringing up Vatican proclamations directed at other countries, and limiting the discussion to younger teens is essentially changing the focus of the OP.

No it is not, the Vatican has a role in the US. You don't think for one second that people in the US took that to heart?? Come on..... it will influence all those that take the popes word, including AMERICANS!!!

One final note - I've already posted the information on teen pregnancy rates in the black, hispanic, and white populations in the US. So it's not just "my general observation," but rather, it's a FACT that the teen pregnancy rates in the black and Hispanic populations far outpaces the rates in the white population.

No, again your information is wrong. it's all wrong, your judging and making a biased and some what racist claim. This cannot posibbly include the rural white areas of middle America. Which I can gaurantee is as bad if not worse than any other culture in America....

It's also pretty easy to find info on marriage ages in different groups. I've researched that before, and posted it on another thread once, but I'm disinclined to research it again since apparently you're not really all that interested in facts - but instead seem more interested in simply screaming "Racist!" instead.

Marriage ages in America should not be different since there are laws on that. Again you're discussing independent teens and I am discussing dependent teens. There is a difference when a 13 has a child an 18 year old. the 18 can raise the child ina loving environment and have stability. A 13 year old cannot.....

I can assure you that I'm about as far from racist as a person can get.

The stop acting like the different cultures in our country cause different teen pregnenciy rates, for they DO NOT!!!

 

[Kathryn]

LOL, are you slap crazy?

Different cultures in our society DO have DIFFERENT TEEN PREGNANCY RATES. I didn't say WHAT CAUSED the difference (in fact, I've stated repeatedly that it's a combination of elements that cause this difference, not any one issue) - I simply stated that there IS a difference. Are you denying this?

 

[MW0082]

LOL, are you slap crazy?

Different cultures in our society DO have DIFFERENT TEEN PREGNANCY RATES. I didn't say WHAT CAUSED the difference (in fact, I've stated repeatedly that it's a combination of elements that cause this difference, not any one issue) - I simply stated that there IS a difference. Are you denying this?

I am saying your stats are wrong, there is no way they could have talked to EVERYONE.....

And I am sorry but I know hispanics, I know blacks, I know Arabics, none of them accept teen pregnencies. So yeah I am dening your illogic..... Obviously someone didn't get slappy happy enough with you....

 

[Kathryn]

I notice that I posted stats (from the US census bureau and the CDC) and yet you have not posted any stats to support your claims. Do so and then we can talk.

Until then, I'm unimpressed with your personal experiences. I also know hispanics, and blacks, and arabs, and white folks. And Asians too. So what?

 

[MW0082]

I notice that I posted stats (from the US census bureau and the CDC) and yet you have not posted any stats to support your claims. Do so and then we can talk.

Until then, I'm unimpressed with your personal experiences. I also know hispanics, and blacks, and arabs, and white folks. And Asians too. So what?

So what? So you're sitting here trying to tell me that they accept teen pregnancies when in fact they do not. Your spreading ignorance, and I hope people can see through it.

And you think the census bureu is spot on don't you?

 

[Kathryn]

I think that the stats provided by the US Census Bureau AND the Department for Disease Control trump your non existent sources. That's what I think.

And what I said was that some cultures are more accepting of teen pregnancies than others. Are you saying this is not the case?

Teen pregnancy does not carry the same stigma in all societies. I'm not saying that ANY society thinks it's a great thing. But let me give you an example - from my own life experience if you will allow me (since you're using your own real life experiences I guess that's OK).

My ex sisters in law (who happen to be black), had several (EACH) pregnancies in their teens. Though not actively ENCOURAGED, there simply wasn't a stigma attached to it in their culture. It was an accepted lifestyle choice - and still is in many black societies in the US.

My daughter just adopted a baby from Korea. In Korea, abortion is against the law except in cases of danger to the mother. But also - single motherhood is considered a very shameful disgrace. Therefore, babies are given up for adoption. They have a lowest teen pregnancy rate in the WORLD at 2.9 per 1000 live births. Just for the record, they also have an excellent adoption process that places illegitimate babies (voluntarily of course) immediately with foster parents till they are adopted, rather than putting them in orphanages.

An aside note - the teenage pregnancy rate for Asians is the lowest for any racial group in the US.

Teenage pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Respectfully, I do not believe that I am the one spreading ignorance here. At least i can back up my claims with factual statistics.

Project America: Social Issues: Teen Birth Rate

 

[MW0082]

I think that the stats provided by the US Census Bureau AND the Department for Disease Control trump your non existent sources. That's what I think.

LOL, yes because every American ALWAYS fills out the Census and tells the truth correct? LOL

And what I said was that some cultures are more accepting of teen pregnancies than others. Are you saying this is not the case?

You are saying Hispanics and Blacks, which you are wrong. This has nothign to do with their actual culture, it has to do with how they are educated. Unfortunately Blacks and Hispanics happen to be part of that lower income. So thye do not always receive the proper education they need. That has absolutely nothign to do with their culture..... I mean com on.

My ex sisters in law (who happen to be black), had several (EACH) pregnancies in their teens. Though not actively ENCOURAGED, there simply wasn't a stigma attached to it in their culture. It was an accepted lifestyle choice - and still is in many black societies in the US.

No in poor societies not black.

My daughter just adopted a baby from Korea. In Korea, abortion is against the law except in cases of danger to the mother. But also - single motherhood is considered a very shameful disgrace. Therefore, babies are given up for adoption. They have a lowest teen pregnancy rate in the WORLD at 2.9 per 1000 live births. Just for the record, they also have an excellent adoption process that places illegitimate babies (voluntarily of course) immediately with foster parents till they are adopted, rather than putting them in orphanages.

Ok, so they use a scare tactic and it is working. What does that have to do with teen pregnancy rates in the USA?

An aside note - the teenage pregnancy rate for Asians is the lowest for any racial group in the US.

Teenage pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Respectfully, I do not believe that I am the one spreading ignorance here. At least i can back up my claims with factual statistics.

Project America: Social Issues: Teen Birth Rate

just keep beleiving what they feed you, ok?

 

[no-body]

My daughter just adopted a baby from Korea. In Korea, abortion is against the law except in cases of danger to the mother. But also - single motherhood is considered a very shameful disgrace. Therefore, babies are given up for adoption. They have a lowest teen pregnancy rate in the WORLD at 2.9 per 1000 live births. Just for the record, they also have an excellent adoption process that places illegitimate babies (voluntarily of course) immediately with foster parents till they are adopted, rather than putting them in orphanages.

An aside note - the teenage pregnancy rate for Asians is the lowest for any racial group in the US.

Korea may have the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in the world based on the stats, but you aren't looking at the whole of the stats, what about illegal/covered up abortions? :

South Korea Looks at Legalizing Abortion

However, the government has for decades turned a blind eye to the flourishing illegal abortion trade, with the result that South Korea already has one of the highest abortion rates in the world.
According to JoongAng Daily, members of the government committee justified their move toward legalization by citing the widespread acceptance of abortion in the country, pointing out that it is “common for other advanced countries, such as the United States or Germany, to allow abortions within a limited time frame.”
Official data from the Ministry of Health indicates that doctors perform about 350,000 abortions per year, while they deliver on average just 450,000 babies, meaning 43.7 percent of pregnancies end in abortion.
However, the actual number of abortions may be at least five times the official estimate, with a spokesman from the ruling Grand National Party saying that a National Assembly inspection last October found that the number of illegal abortions in Korea exceeds 1.5 million a year or roughly 4,000 babies aborted per day.

As long as we're being "objective" here, Asian culture probably have a lot less teen pregnancy rates not because they prevent it, but because they cover it up.

The data indicates what always happens when you outlaw abortion, people find a way around it and a lot of women die. But at least a little mass of unthinking cells will be saved to grow up into suffering unwanted children eh?

 

[Smoke]

So what? So you're sitting here trying to tell me that they accept teen pregnancies when in fact they do not. Your spreading ignorance, and I hope people can see through it.

And you think the census bureu is spot on don't you?

There's no doubt that teen pregnancies are higher among black and Hispanic girls than among white girls. That's just the way it is and it's the way it's been since anybody started keeping statistics. In the case of live births, it's just a matter of compiling data from birth certificates. One of the reasons we have vital records is so health departments and government agencies can compile such statistics. And of course they can gather data in other ways, too.

You don't have to like Kathryn's explanation for the facts, but there's no doubt about what the facts are.

One of the interesting things, though, is that teen birthrates are higher for white girls in the Southeast than anywhere else. They're higher for Hispanic girls in the Southeast than anywhere else. They're higher for black girls in the Southeast and Upper Midwest than anywhere else.

Clearly, the Southeast has a problem. I took a look at the data for Mississippi. It's not a state that's friendly toward abortion; it still has an abortion ban in place that would take effect if Roe v. Wade were to be overturned. Counseling intended to discourage abortion is mandated, and there's a 24-hour waiting period, meaning women must make two trips -- one for the counseling session and another for the abortion. In the case of minors, both parents must consent, and in the case of state employees, insurance coverage is restricted or limited. There are only two abortion providers in the state, and 99% of Mississippi counties have no abortion provider.

So, since Mississippi hates abortion, you'd think Mississippi would encourage contraception. Not so. Mississippi allows anybody -- doctors, pharmacies, pharmacists, and any healthcare facility -- to deny contraceptive services, and state law requires sex education to stress abstinence.

It's a state where young girls are not encouraged to have information, contraception, or abortions. Of course the birth rate's going to be higher.

The question is, do black and Hispanic teens have more babies because of "cultural" factors (which is what Kathryn seems to think), or do they have more babies because they're concentrated in areas that aren't very friendly to sex education, contraception, or abortion? (Which is what I tend to think.)

 

[MW0082]

Korea may have the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in the world based on the stats, but you aren't looking at the whole of the stats, what about illegal/covered up abortions? :

South Korea Looks at Legalizing Abortion

As long as we're being "objective" here, Asian culture probably have a lot less teen pregnancy rates not because they prevent it, but because they cover it up.

The data indicates what always happens when you outlaw abortion, people find a way around it and a lot of women die. But at least a little mass of unthinking cells will be saved to grow up into suffering unwanted children eh?

Precisely, and I would imagine in a white religious comunnity, it is even more taboo and covered up better.

Statistics are not always the truth, you need to look at where they are coming from and what the subject is.

 

[BadBeast]

On a purely biological level, 14-19 is the optimum age for women to bear healthy children, and recover quickest from the birth. Whatever moral considerations are applied, they don't detract from the biological imperative that this puts upon us. It's instinct that drives us, and this is why so many teenage girls get pregnant. Not any lack of morals, or the decline of Christian values, or the decadence of modern society. It's Biological, and Instinctual. Those two factors are going to over-ride any cultural considerations, every time I'm afraid.