Tell me the difference between these two.

[voskhod]

• Obey and worship me, God, or burn in hell.
• People have free will. They can choose to obey God's commands, or not. God does not send people to hell, they send themselves.

• Obey and worship me, Josef Stalin, or freeze in Gulag.
• People have free will. They can could choose to obey Stalin's commands, or not. Stalin does not send people to Gulags, they send themselves there by disobeying him.

• "But wait, the difference is that God is all knowing and perfect!"

• "Yes, but you see comrade, Father Stalin is also all knowing and perfect. I know this because this book written by the People's Ministry of Truth says so."

• "That's absurd! Stalin is very clearly imperfect, I'd even go so far as to call him EVIL!"

• "You must open up your heart to our glorious leader, only then can you truly see his love. Father Stalin cannot be evil since he is goodness personified. You must have faith in him."
  

 

[Skwim]

A rose by any other name . . . .

 

[Revoltingest]

All seem to be a Hobson's Choice with severe consequences.

 

[Quintessence]

More than you seem to believe, apparently.

But since you didn't actually supply direct quotes with references, I'm not inclined to take this little game too seriously.

 

[Bunyip]

The difference is that the Stalin version is patently wicked and immoral, but thousands of years ago such barbarous monomaniacal authoritarianism seemed godlike.

Imagine God sacrificing his son, which was seen as a good thing in the ancient past - whilst if a modern zealot was slaughtering his own kids we would frown upon it.

Human sacrifice whilst patently abominable now, was something that our primitive ancestors saw as rather glorious.

 

[1137]

One part is black and the other is red.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

It's easier to make grandiose statements about the nonexistent than the recently deceased.

 

[FearGod]

• Obey and worship me, God, or burn in hell.
• People have free will. They can choose to obey God's commands, or not. God does not send people to hell, they send themselves.

• Obey and worship me, Josef Stalin, or freeze in Gulag.
• People have free will. They can could choose to obey Stalin's commands, or not. Stalin does not send people to Gulags, they send themselves there by disobeying him.

• "But wait, the difference is that God is all knowing and perfect!"

• "Yes, but you see comrade, Father Stalin is also all knowing and perfect. I know this because this book written by the People's Ministry of Truth says so."

• "That's absurd! Stalin is very clearly imperfect, I'd even go so far as to call him EVIL!"

• "You must open up your heart to our glorious leader, only then can you truly see his love. Father Stalin cannot be evil since he is goodness personified. You must have faith in him."
  

The difference is that God sent the evil doers, but the similarity is that punishment does exist for disobeying the rules.

 

[voskhod]

The difference is that God sent the evil doers, but the similarity is that punishment does exist for disobeying the rules.

Stalin only sent evil doers to gulags, as they were evil for denying his will.

 

[FearGod]

Stalin only sent evil doers to gulags, as they were evil for denying his will.

I don't know how to compare a silly man to God,but for the sake of argument we will compare the incomparable.

Stalin didn't give any chances to his enemies,punishment done with no judgement and with no mercy.

God give us chances,i may be an atheist and disobey God but still God is merciful that he accepts repentance.

If God was rude then he won't let any atheist living on the face of earth, but he is merciful,meek and patient.

 

[1137]

If God was rude then he won't let any atheist living on the face of earth, but he is merciful,meek and patient.

Isn't that what hell is for?

 

[Sir Doom]

• Obey and worship me, God, or burn in hell.
• People have free will. They can choose to obey God's commands, or not. God does not send people to hell, they send themselves.

• Obey and worship me, Josef Stalin, or freeze in Gulag.
• People have free will. They can could choose to obey Stalin's commands, or not. Stalin does not send people to Gulags, they send themselves there by disobeying him.

• "But wait, the difference is that God is all knowing and perfect!"

• "Yes, but you see comrade, Father Stalin is also all knowing and perfect. I know this because this book written by the People's Ministry of Truth says so."

• "That's absurd! Stalin is very clearly imperfect, I'd even go so far as to call him EVIL!"

• "You must open up your heart to our glorious leader, only then can you truly see his love. Father Stalin cannot be evil since he is goodness personified. You must have faith in him."
  

One is fiction. The other is about God.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The difference is that Stalin allowed people to die while God makes you rot in a heated bucket for all eternity.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I don't know how to compare a silly man to God,but for the sake of argument we will compare the incomparable.

It is possible to compare a serf to a lord, in certain, specific things, though not generally. Similarly God can be compared to man to certain things. For example, if we have enough information given about God's eyesight, we from experience have enough information about human eyesight, we can compare God's eyesight to human eyesight.

Stalin didn't give any chances to his enemies,punishment done with no judgement and with no mercy.

They, of course, had the option to follow him and abide his orders which were given out first-handedly. God's was given out far from first-handedly; Second-handedly from prophets, third handedly from people recording the prophecies of the prophets, forth-handedly from people translating the prophecies of the prophets, fifth-handedly from people editing these translations, sixth-handedly from congregational interpretation.

God give us chances,i may be an atheist and disobey God but still God is merciful that he accepts repentance.

But why does he not accept atheism?

If God was rude then he won't let any atheist living on the face of earth, but he is merciful,meek and patient.

But how is one merciful if there is punishment? Also, the lack of existence would most likely be preferred than a state of eternal pain.

I do hope this conversation can be carried on like two reasonable people and not thrown aside. With this promise, perhaps one of us will come to another conclusion

 

[FearGod]

It is possible to compare a serf to a lord, in certain, specific things, though not generally. Similarly God can be compared to man to certain things. For example, if we have enough information given about God's eyesight, we from experience have enough information about human eyesight, we can compare God's eyesight to human eyesight.

God isn't a human being.

It is like comparing a human to ants

They, of course, had the option to follow him and abide his orders which were given out first-handedly. God's was given out far from first-handedly; Second-handedly from prophets, third handedly from people recording the prophecies of the prophets, forth-handedly from people translating the prophecies of the prophets, fifth-handedly from people editing these translations, sixth-handedly from congregational interpretation.

I don't think so, followers of Stalin were as bad as he was , but followers of prophets were as good as he was.

God asked us to do good deeds and to help people in need

But why does he not accept atheism?

We don't know , it returns to him, he may forgives ,he may punishes

But how is one merciful if there is punishment? Also, the lack of existence would most likely be preferred than a state of eternal pain.

Why there is life sentence, it looks to me as eternal punishment ?
What if the person in the prison never dies, will that change punishment of life sentence ?

I do hope this conversation can be carried on like two reasonable people and not thrown aside. With this promise, perhaps one of us will come to another conclusion

I hope so.

 

[FearGod]

Isn't that what hell is for?

The bad soul is a bad soul.

Would you ever be sad to see Gary Heidnik being tortured for eternity ?

 

[Sees]

The bad soul is a bad soul.

Would you ever be sad to see Gary Heidnik being tortured for eternity ?

I would...it would seem a failure that said soul couldn't be cleansed/fixed/rehabilitated through thousands of years or many lifetimes. That us other souls, God/Gods, angels, spirits, etc. could not have the knowledge or ability to have helped - even with an eternity of opportunity.

 

[FearGod]

I would...it would seem a failure that said soul couldn't be cleansed/fixed/rehabilitated through thousands of years or many lifetimes. That us other souls, God/Gods, angels, spirits, etc. could not have the knowledge or ability to have helped - even with an eternity of opportunity.

You are saying so because you don't know what bad soul is.

If murderers know that they'll be punished for some years and back to life and then punished for some years and back to life then it'll go in this way for eternity.

Not all souls are good and that is what the test for.

But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars.(6:28)

 

[Gjallarhorn]

You are saying so because you don't know what bad soul is.

If murderers know that they'll be punished for some years and back to life and then punished for some years and back to life then it'll go in this way for eternity.

Not all souls are good and that is what the test for.

But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars.(6:28)

If a bad soul can't change then why create it in the first place? Obviously if a soul is born bad it's pointless for a supreme being to make, unless God enjoys torture porn.

But, if the soul isn't made bad, then a soul can never truly be a "bad soul". Through rehabilitation any soul should be able to become good, or vice versa.

But let's pretend people can't change. It works so well in criminal systems of punishment compared to systems of rehabilitation. Oh wait!

 

[FearGod]

If a bad soul can't change then why create it in the first place? Obviously if a soul is born bad it's pointless for a supreme being to make, unless God enjoys torture porn.

But, if the soul isn't made bad, then a soul can never truly be a "bad soul". Through rehabilitation any soul should be able to become good, or vice versa.

But let's pretend people can't change. It works so well in criminal systems of punishment compared to systems of rehabilitation. Oh wait!

God accepts repentance and hence some souls will turn from being bad souls to being good souls.

In judgement day each soul will know what it did.

So how will it be when We assemble them for a Day about which there is no doubt? And each soul will be compensated [in full for] what it earned, and they will not be wronged.(3:25)

I don't agree with the opinion that says God created the bad soul, it is our choice.

For example, why the rapist rapes and even kills after doing his awful act, was he evolved by nature to do so, or God created him to be a rapist, if he was so bad due to nature then why to punish him at first place.