Telling someone from a different faith/belief

[SalixIncendium]

I think you are mixing up things.

Well, let’s see if that’s indeed the case...

Just because a certain belief meets a certain "need" of the individual, has no bearing at all on the actual accuracy of said beliefs.

By what standard are we demonstrating “accuracy?”

If a belief is demonstrably incorrect, I see no problem at all in pointing that out.

Yes. I said that.

And if a belief is without rational justification, meaning there is no rational reason to believe it, I see no problem at all in pointing that out as well.

Regardless of any "needs" being met by said belief.

What is your justification in pointing it out? What do you to accomplish aside from satiating your own ego?

I certainly get that beliefs, religious beliefs in particular, can be "comfortable" for people in all kinds of ways.
But I don't care about what feels nice, when it comes to belief. I care about what is actually true and rationally justified.

Again, to what end? Does it give you some sort of sense of pleasure robbing people of their own comfort or understanding to bask in the feeling of being “right?”

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

As you know, i am a sufi muslim, that does not give me a right to tell others they are wrong in their belief in a different teaching. It only means my understanding of sufi teaching fit how i understand life.
If others want to believe different it's no problem for me

Not the point.

You can say things without actually saying them. Hence the terms "by implication"


If you thought Hinduism was correct, you'ld be a hindu right? ....right?
But you are not a hindu. What does that say about your opinion / beliefs concerning hinduism?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not the point.

You can say things without actually saying them. Hence the terms "by implication"


If you thought Hinduism was correct, you'ld be a hindu right? ....right?
But you are not a hindu. What does that say about your opinion / beliefs concerning hinduism?

Why would i tell a Hindu or any other believer something negative like "your belief or religion is wrong" ?

I have a personal belief in what i practice as a sufi. What other people practice or believe is non of my business. Nor is it my business why some people do not believe in spiritual teaching.

Being gentle in words, action or thoughts toward others is very important. No need to tell what they "should or should not believe "

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

By what standard are we demonstrating “accuracy?”

Always a funny question, imo, in context of "beliefs".

In a nutshell:
Accurate: those things that verifiably match observable reality.
Inaccurate: those things verifiably do NOT match observable reality.

What is your justification in pointing it out? What do you to accomplish aside from satiating your own ego?

Rationality is its own reward.

Again, to what end?

Minimizing false beliefs and maximizing accurate beliefs.
Which in turn leads to better and more responsible decision making.
And that leads to a better world for all of us.

Does it give you some sort of sense of pleasure robbing people of their own comfort or understanding to bask in the feeling of being “right?”

No.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If you thought Hinduism was correct, you'ld be a hindu right? ....right?
But you are not a hindu. What does that say about your opinion / beliefs concerning hinduism?

And I’m not a Jew.

Hinduism fits my personal views and relates to my experiences most accurately. Judaism does not.

However, I don’t think most Jews share my worldview or have shared my experiences, so it’s likely Hinduism wouldn’t best fit their views, just as Judaism isn’t the best fit for mine.

That doesn’t make Hinduism any more or less correct than Judaism.

Worldviews are based on experiences. You and I have not shared the same experiences, therefore, you and I are not likely to share the same worldview. That doesn’t make atheism any more or less accurate than transtheism.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why would i tell a Hindu or any other believer something negative like "your belief or religion is wrong" ?

I have a personal belief in what i practice as a sufi. What other people practice or believe is non of my business. Nor is it my business why some people do not believe in spiritual teaching.

Being gentle in words, action or thoughts toward others is very important. No need to tell what they "should or should not believe "

Why is it so hard for you to answer my question...


If you though hinduism was correct, you'ld be a hindu, right?
But you are not a hindu. So what does that say about your opinion / belief concerning the hindu religion?


It's not necessary to keep repeating your statement that you won't explicitly say something. I'm talking about implications. Not explicit statements.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why is it so hard for you to answer my question...


If you though hinduism was correct, you'ld be a hindu, right?
But you are not a hindu. So what does that say about your opinion / belief concerning the hindu religion?


It's not necessary to keep repeating your statement that you won't explicitly say something. I'm talking about implications. Not explicit statements.

I am a sufi because i follow Sufi teaching and have a sufi teacher.

That does not mean hindu, Christianity og other religious faith can not be correct for others.

Why do I seldom answer your questions directly? Because you asking the wrong questions.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Always a funny question, imo, in context of "beliefs".

Accurate: those things that verifiable match observable reality.

Was the eye roll really necessary?

I’m not sure what you’re arguing. I said this in my first post in the thread.

Rationality is its own reward.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

Minimizing false beliefs and maximizing accurate beliefs.

Please tell me by what measure you are assessing accuracy of belief.

Which in turn leads to better and more responsible decision making.
And that leads to a better world for all of us.

How does someone believing in a personal god affect your world?

Better still, please tell me how my beliefs specifically or Hindu beliefs in general have affected your world.

No.

Based on your responses here, I remain largely unconvinced.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I have thought a lot about this, and come to the conclusion that as a Muslim, it would be wrong of me to tell a person from a different faith or belief that they are wrong.

I can discuss with an other muslim about the understanding of the teaching, and accept that even fellow muslims understanding the teaching differently than my self. And be ok with it.

Any thoughts?

Having read about 2/3 of the Qu'ran (in English) and all of Bible, I see two main differences:

1 Qur'an - do your best/hope Allah saves (relative goodness to other people)

1 Bible - trust Jesus and Allah shall save (make you morally perfect in Heaven)

Therefore,

2 Qur'an - do not invite to mosque (they must invite themselves) - let them do, Allah will sort people

2 Bible - tell everyone Jesus wants them saved because that is His will

 

[Spirit of Light]

Having read about 2/3 of the Qu'ran (in English) and all of Bible, I see two main differences:

1 Qur'an - do your best/hope Allah saves (relative goodness to other people)

1 Bible - trust Jesus and Allah shall save (make you morally perfect in Heaven)

Therefore,

2 Qur'an - do not invite to mosque (they must invite themselves) - let them do, Allah will sort people

2 Bible - tell everyone Jesus wants them saved because that is His will

You view or understanding is not a problem for me

In my understanding, the quran ask of me to better my self, to adjust according to the teaching. I must do the job my self

 

[Estro Felino]

But surely, by not accepting their faith you are by implication telling them , "It is wrong".

I guess one thing does not exclude another one.
I can believe in something which does not necessarily imply other beliefs are wrong.

 

[Inquire of God]

Why is that "unkind"?

The best answer I can give you is this, Ask Yourself.

 

[Quiddity]

It's unlikely you'll get far if you start with "you're wrong". But I don't agree it should be avoided necessarily. Free discourse is the fundamental problem-solving mechanism. With that, comes the necessity to allow people to say the stupidest of things. No one starts off knowing how to engage or what exactly offends. You need to allow people to work that out. Yes, some things are obviously offensive or rude, but that is in part the price we must pay if we wish to make actual progress.

I'd much rather have someone tell me I'm wrong than to leave me in ignorance. That is a form of salvation.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would be able to constructively give advice within my knowledge of the faith i believe in, but i no longer have a wish or need to correct people from other spiritual paths.
As i already mention in a previoues post, i am still learning to understand aspects of the teachings i believe in, so how can i guide or critique others, when I my self have a lot to understand?

I don't follow too much of your posts cause I know you're still learning so asking about your faith, teachings, and your reasoning is very difficult.

Nonetheless, not many people correct others in their spiritual path either unless they are of the same faith (I mostly see it in christians). I'd say outside of that, most agree with you.

How I'd approach it is if someone said the Trinity is in the bible, and knowing Im not a christian, I'd say and do say from what I learned/practiced/studied this is how I see it...so you can still have good conversations and offer a difference of opinion on others beliefs without telling them they are wrong in their spiritual journey.

Not trying to say you're wrong or devalue your thoughts, just offering another perspective.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The best answer I can give you is this, Ask Yourself.

Pretty pointless. If I knew the answer, I wouldn't ask the question.

Sounds like you don't know it yourself and just say it for the sake of saying it?

You made the claim... I would expect you to have some reasoning behind it. All I'm asking is what that reasoning is.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'd much rather have someone tell me I'm wrong than to leave me in ignorance. That is a form of salvation.

This.

When I have a belief which is wrong - I want to know.
I'ld be hugely dissappointed if people didn't tell me I'm wrong and explained why I'm wrong simply for the sake of "not hurting my feelings".

In fact, my feelings would be hurt if I find out that people deliberatly leave me wallowing in ignorance and / or false beliefs.


If I'm wrong about something, I WANT people to point it out.
I like to avoid having false beliefs.


And considering "the golden rule" of treating others like I would want to be treated myself.... ;-)

 

[Inquire of God]

Pretty pointless. If I knew the answer, I wouldn't ask the question.

Sounds like you don't know it yourself and just say it for the sake of saying it?

You made the claim... I would expect you to have some reasoning behind it. All I'm asking is what that reasoning is.

You caustically address me, then you demand an answer and now you want reasoning.
I can't help you and I do not want to play childish games or do put downs.

 

[Quiddity]

This.

When I have a belief which is wrong - I want to know.
I'ld be hugely dissappointed if people didn't tell me I'm wrong and explained why I'm wrong simply for the sake of "not hurting my feelings".

In fact, my feelings would be hurt if I find out that people deliberatly leave me wallowing in ignorance and / or false beliefs.


If I'm wrong about something, I WANT people to point it out.
I like to avoid having false beliefs.


And considering "the golden rule" of treating others like I would want to be treated myself.... ;-)

It's not just beliefs. Scientists aren't immune from this either. No one is immune from this.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You view or understanding is not a problem for me

In my understanding, the quran ask of me to better my self, to adjust according to the teaching. I must do the job my self

I understand. Can any religion of any kind PERFECT someone so they may live in a utopia?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I understand. Can any religion of any kind PERFECT someone so they may live in a utopia?

If Utopia is the Paradise, then yes