Temple of Set & Satan Interview

[EtuMalku]

Interview with Ipsissimus Don Webb from the Temple of Set on SIRIUS points
Point of Inquiry

 

[EtuMalku]

Please feel free to comment . . . positively or negatively :yes:

 

[Hagbard]

Thank you for the link.

I generally find Webb an interesting author...of fiction. His Left Hand Path books tend to be quite repetitious. I think this interview is similar...in fact I feel that I have heard the same interview numerous times throughout the years. I also find that his connection of Western Left Hand Path to Eastern Left Hand Path displays a misunderstanding of the goals of vamamarga. In general I think Webb and others set up a straw man argument with the whole Right Hand Path vs. Left Hand Path and then define themselves against a non-existant counter philosophy.

Webb is a long time resident of my home town and I love his fiction but his occult philosophy seems a bit like fast food for the magician.

 

[Kori Houghton]

Thank you for posting the link.

I listened to the interview. While I am not a fan of Webb's, I thought he presented the TOS viewpoint very well. Noted that he mentioned that the Satanic Panic (so-called) of the 1980s-90s in the USA involved the (medical) insurance industry and the "health care" (snort) system, a point I'd made in discussions of the "panic" on alt.satanism years ago. Overall, I'd say this was the closest a high ranking Setian has ever gotten to keeping it real in an interview.

Two thumbs up :yes:

 

[Sireal]

@Hagbard-it is really good that things are rarely what they seem, and if you have never actually Worked with Setian philosophy your opinion remains just that, uninformed.

@Kori, I missed that whole SP thing, I did open one of the largest occult bookstores in western Canada at the time though, I always wondered why there would be xtians praying for me on my doorstep?? but no one got nasty with me beyond that. It was amusing really.

 

[Kori Houghton]

@Kori, I missed that whole SP thing, I did open one of the largest occult bookstores in western Canada at the time though, I always wondered why there would be xtians praying for me on my doorstep?? but no one got nasty with me beyond that. It was amusing really.

I missed the SP thing, too. At the time I was working for a major corporation, as an analyst for a department that did custom work for clients such as a major financial institution and a government security agency. I had some good natured ribbing about some of my choices of lunch break reading material, but no hassles whatsoever.

Where I live now, having any kind of largish personal library is cause for suspicion. And it's not the subject matter of the books, it's just the quantity! Not an issue, unless you're having your home appraised. Then you need to anticipate the possibility of (illegal) questions about your ethnicity and/or religious culture...and that is what makes me laugh. People see what they expect to see based on their prejudices and preconceptions, rather than what is staring them dead in the face. Often without the "help" of a greedy head-shrinker.

 

[Hagbard]

There is a quite lively conversation regarding this interview (including the opinions of Dr. Aquino) over at the 600 Club. If anyone is interested they might want to check it out.

Regarding uniformed opinion: thankfully in the year 2011 one does not need to spend the time, money, etc. to join an esoteric Order in order to examine the relevance of the philosophy in question. Many documents, articles, interviews, papers and such are a mere keystroke away. Furthermore, Don Webb has written numerous books espousing his version of the Left Hand Path and made them available for public sale for many years now. He has done a few public interviews as well. He also maintains a public blog where he explains his philosophy and practice and answers questions regarding the same. One does not need to be a member of his Order to have the ability to make personal judgements regarding the philosophy.

Having explained that, I would like to emphasize that I work under the assumption that there are many paths to Illumination. It is up to each individual to Work their own.

 

[Kori Houghton]

Here's a link to the topic on 600Club:

Don Webb on ToS Cos Magic Egypt etc. enjoy - Satanism Community

Some feisty discussions on that forum!

 

[EtuMalku]

There is a quite lively conversation regarding this interview (including the opinions of Dr. Aquino) over at the 600 Club. If anyone is interested they might want to check it out.

Regarding uniformed opinion: thankfully in the year 2011 one does not need to spend the time, money, etc. to join an esoteric Order in order to examine the relevance of the philosophy in question. Many documents, articles, interviews, papers and such are a mere keystroke away. Furthermore, Don Webb has written numerous books espousing his version of the Left Hand Path and made them available for public sale for many years now. He has done a few public interviews as well. He also maintains a public blog where he explains his philosophy and practice and answers questions regarding the same. One does not need to be a member of his Order to have the ability to make personal judgements regarding the philosophy.

Having explained that, I would like to emphasize that I work under the assumption that there are many paths to Illumination. It is up to each individual to Work their own.

As one person who has been on both sides of the fence, I can say without a doubt, that initiation through the Temple of Set offers opportunities and insights not available on the outside.

Of course if you are merely examining the philosophy and/or making personal judgments of it, then I would agree, though one will never thoroughly comprehend Setian philosophy without being one on one with the Priesthood and having access to the non-public texts and media.

May I ask you to define Illumination?

 

[Sireal]

Thanks for the link Kori.

You can lead a horse to water......
I've listened to/watched most of JK's vids-I wonder how much a wiz kid like him actually experiences life? He wrote one decent beginner book on Satanism and is fairly intelligent but writing/being smart and Living it are two very different things. I will be observing his path unfold over the next twenty or so years and his life Will expose the being he truly is. Such is the nature of the LHP.

Both Don Webb and Michael Aquino have lived most of their lives as Satanic individuals and each has created a worthy body of knowledge that has made possible the LHP's expansion and each are responsible for teaching hundreds if not thousands of LHP Initiates over a long period of time. Whether one agrees with their philosophy or not is quite irrelevant, they have Done the Work for themselves, like everyone else on this path must do. Virtually every LHP organization of any substance that exists today has a former Setian at the helm. This is the purpose of the Temple-to create Teachers- and we do it very well. That information however is rarely published and there is truly only one way to get it. That there are unscrupulous individuals on the LHP is no secret-LHP Initiation will not cure you of being an assewhole it will simply make you more of one.

Though I hold a degree of admiration and respect for the current crop of groups and literature that is coming to bear on the subject, it is IMHO very much in its infancy and it really shows after having read the thread on the 600C.

There is so much more than meets the eye in what the general public has access to regarding Setian Initiation and what Setian Initiation truly is. I see some are under the impression that reading what material we have made public constitutes full knowledge~hardly. This is the part of Initiation that is only learned mouth to ear, and if one already believes their own bs they wont be listening and therefor wont be capable of learning. You have to admire the balls that young fella has to go off on Dr. Aquino like that-pricey path to take and he will almost certainly eat his words one day if he continues as a LHP Magician.

"I seek my Elect- none other"...Set

Here's a link to the topic on 600Club:

Don Webb on ToS Cos Magic Egypt etc. enjoy - Satanism Community

Some feisty discussions on that forum!

 

[Sireal]

?Why is this thread in the Luciferian DIR?

 

[EtuMalku]

?Why is this thread in the Luciferian DIR?

Because I'm an idiot and didn't post it in the relevant Setian DIR :run:

 

[Sireal]

ask the mods to move it

 

[Hagbard]

As one person who has been on both sides of the fence, I can say without a doubt, that initiation through the Temple of Set offers opportunities and insights not available on the outside.

Of course if you are merely examining the philosophy and/or making personal judgments of it, then I would agree, though one will never thoroughly comprehend Setian philosophy without being one on one with the Priesthood and having access to the non-public texts and media.

May I ask you to define Illumination?

EtuMalku,
I myself am extremely sceptical of any philosophy that requires "one on one" study with a priesthood to truly understand. This sounds like the tired, old Roman Catholic gimmick. I would also caution that the "hidden knowledge" and "secret teachings" scheme is a trick that has been used to pull the wool over peoples eyes for thousands of years. The only secrets are the ones we keep from ourselves. No priesthood or Order contain any secrets of relevance. Remember the great and mysterious secret that was revealed to Crowley upon his initiation into the Golden Dawn? The Hebrew alphabet!

Since we are discussing this under the graces of the good Lucifer I will define Illumination as the dawning of Light, LVX, and Light in Extension. No one can give this to you, not by "mouth to ear", not by secret code, not by membership in an Order. We ourselves must become as Lucifer and bring the Light down upon ourselves.

And just out of curiosity: if this topic is moved to the Setian DIR will respectful opinions critical of the Temple of Set be tolerated? If not, perhaps there is a more general LHP area into which it could be moved?

 

[Sireal]

EtuMalku,
And just out of curiosity: if this topic is moved to the Setian DIR will respectful opinions critical of the Temple of Set be tolerated? If not, perhaps there is a more general LHP area into which it could be moved?

Intelligent, respectful critique is Always welcome among Setians, as long as you don't mind it being reciprocated in kind. So far you say you are skeptical-good! but then you go on to say that you know how Initiatory knowledge is handled and passed on- the hidden within- how do you find it? If you already Know all this what is it you really want? I don't think you are being honest.

Khabs am Pekht is not transmitted mouth to ear, it is something that one finds on their own through the process of Initiation. But this is simply academic and Initiation is much more than academic...what does Light in Extension mean, how does this knowledge help you become your Self? what method did you undergo to acquire the initial awakening? it is simply an acquired skill and one of many, illumination is only the beginning and it happens for a reason-what is that reason? Where does this light come down from? Who did you learn this from? or did you find it within/above yourself and just decide you had it? If no Priesthood or Order contain any relevant information where do you get your knowledge from? From your self? that has a name and it is solipsism and it goes around in a big (or small) circle around ones self-big deal!
By all means come and reason with us, if that is indeed your intent?

 

[Hagbard]

Intelligent, respectful critique is Always welcome among Setians, as long as you don't mind it being reciprocated in kind. So far you say you are skeptical-good! but then you go on to say that you know how Initiatory knowledge is handled and passed on- the hidden within- how do you find it? If you already Know all this what is it you really want? I don't think you are being honest.

Khabs am Pekht is not transmitted mouth to ear, it is something that one finds on their own through the process of Initiation. But this is simply academic and Initiation is much more than academic...what does Light in Extension mean, how does this knowledge help you become your Self? what method did you undergo to acquire the initial awakening? it is simply an acquired skill and one of many, illumination is only the beginning and it happens for a reason-what is that reason? Where does this light come down from? Who did you learn this from? or did you find it within/above yourself and just decide you had it? If no Priesthood or Order contain any relevant information where do you get your knowledge from? From your self? that has a name and it is solipsism and it goes around in a big (or small) circle around ones self-big deal!
By all means come and reason with us, if that is indeed your intent?

Well perhaps before I attempt an answer to atleast some of your questions it would serve well if I offered a short introduction.

I have been a student of the Mysteries for approximately 20 years. In that time I have been formally initiated in the Vamamarga of both Hindu and Buddhist traditions. I have also recieved/obtained a few intitiations in the Hermetic traditions of the West. In the mid 90's I was (for a short time) a member of your Temple and made the acquaintenance of one or two members of your preisthood. I have also met and heard lectures from atleast one Magus in your Temple here locally. Frankly I learned more about the Temple as an outsider than an insider who worked with the philosophy. Ultimately I decided that I (personally) needed to seek deeper waters. The Temple is apparently a good fit for some but it was not for me...for various reasons.
Most recently I Work within what could be called a broad Thelemic current with an emphasis on the vamamarga (i.e. Left Hand Path).

I think a good example of a functioning Order that has avoided the secrecy trap would be the various lineages of the A.'.A.'. Here is a teaching Order that makes all of the teachings public. One can still join, to have direct contact with a teacher, but one can work the system on ones own as well. Most, if not all, of the teachings and practices have been published for many years and are continually updated on a fairly regular basis. They are made available to the public to scrutinize, experiment with and learn from. I fully understand the mystique of belonging to a secret club...I have been a Mason for years and it can be great fun, but I would be a fool if I expected people to believe that there was some secret that Masonry could reveal to them if they would join. All of our rituals have been exposed....for many, many years, published and available to the masses. The secrets are within each individual and it is up to the individual to discover them. No priest, teacher or Order can do that. In my opinion Mr. Webb and Dr. Aquino have exposed the teachings and practices of the ToS to the public. Dr. Aquino is doing this more and more lately (which I find both interesting and quite healthy). I think it is a bit silly to expect people to believe that somehow there are deeper and darker teachings that will berevealed to them if they join. My point is that the teachings are there and can be used by anyone with the brains and talent to use them. This applies to all occult Orders, not just the ToS.

You question my motivations for this discussion. Frankly, one of your Temple's members posted the link to Mr. Webb's interview and invited comments. I commented. I find the ToS interesting and enjoy keeping tabs on the current happenings and releases. I keep in contact with one or two members to discuss things every now and again and enjoy the back and forth. I have no ulterior motive other than a desire to spread agnosticism in regards to all priesthoods, religions, secret Orders, and philosophical sloppiness.

In regards to my practices and methods: I am a bit of a scavenger. I dig around in what I find interesting and try to seperate the wheat from the chaff and use what is useful to me. I practice ceremonial magick in the Hermetic Qabalistic tradition, along with some healthy LHP tantric meditation. I apply antinomianism as a life style, philosophy, and practice. Some of my deepest expereinces of Illumination have come while free-climbing in the gorgeous country of Central Texas.

Where does the Light come down from? Ah...there is an interesting question! I dont dare an answer...any answer I could give would be speculation. Sometimes I think it is one side of my brain sending the Light to the other. In wilder moments I can become convinced that it is coming from the Great Crazy Woman in the Sky. Other times I wonder if it is coming from outter space....all speculation. But quite fun.

What is the reason? Reason be damned! You wont trap me in the error of cause and effect!

With all sincerity though I love you ToS folk. I look forward to the day when you drop the unecessary secrecy and preisthood bit and come out and share and Work with the rest of us for the general advancement of humanity. It has been a couple of years since I have seen a new Ruby update or Scroll. I am sure there is some interesting reading to be done.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Thanks for the link Kori.

You can lead a horse to water......
I've listened to/watched most of JK's vids-I wonder how much a wiz kid like him actually experiences life? He wrote one decent beginner book on Satanism and is fairly intelligent but writing/being smart and Living it are two very different things. I will be observing his path unfold over the next twenty or so years and his life Will expose the being he truly is. Such is the nature of the LHP.

Both Don Webb and Michael Aquino have lived most of their lives as Satanic individuals and each has created a worthy body of knowledge that has made possible the LHP's expansion and each are responsible for teaching hundreds if not thousands of LHP Initiates over a long period of time. Whether one agrees with their philosophy or not is quite irrelevant, they have Done the Work for themselves, like everyone else on this path must do. Virtually every LHP organization of any substance that exists today has a former Setian at the helm. This is the purpose of the Temple-to create Teachers- and we do it very well. That information however is rarely published and there is truly only one way to get it. That there are unscrupulous individuals on the LHP is no secret-LHP Initiation will not cure you of being an assewhole it will simply make you more of one.

Though I hold a degree of admiration and respect for the current crop of groups and literature that is coming to bear on the subject, it is IMHO very much in its infancy and it really shows after having read the thread on the 600C.

There is so much more than meets the eye in what the general public has access to regarding Setian Initiation and what Setian Initiation truly is. I see some are under the impression that reading what material we have made public constitutes full knowledge~hardly. This is the part of Initiation that is only learned mouth to ear, and if one already believes their own bs they wont be listening and therefor wont be capable of learning. You have to admire the balls that young fella has to go off on Dr. Aquino like that-pricey path to take and he will almost certainly eat his words one day if he continues as a LHP Magician.

"I seek my Elect- none other"...Set

Here's a question for a Setian: Why is the current version of the website so bare as opposed to the website of the 90s? The site in the 90s had WAY more great information on it, and a wonderful e-list one could subscribe to. Balanone still has a great page, but the way ToS's current page is set up, it is very discouraging, and leaves one with the impression that the ToS has very little to offer.

 

[kai]

MOD POST

This thread has been moved to the Setian DIR​

 

[Sireal]

I have no ulterior motive other than a desire to spread agnosticism in regards to all priesthoods, religions, secret Orders, and philosophical sloppiness.

As a Setian Priest I take issue with your intent in this regard, and surely you must expect that. You say you were in the Temple for a "short time" I take it you never went beyond the I*? You will therefor understand my presence in this thread.There are no "secret" Orders in the Temple? and there is certainly no philosophical sloppiness, for that you would need to engage Qabala,Thelema, Luciferianism etc......I take it you've never read Dr. Aquino's essay on agnostics?

I have engaged several former members with the exact same agenda you put forth after leaving the Temple once they have a few documents and have it all figured out, you certainly are not the first.

In regards to my practices and methods: I am a bit of a scavenger. I dig around in what I find interesting and try to seperate the wheat from the chaff and use what is useful to me.

Well, what is useful to you will not be the same for Setians and you are in the wrong place for scavenging here-"I practice ceremonial magick in the Hermetic Qabalistic tradition, along with some healthy LHP tantric meditation." Which taken as pathways are imo are All more exotic forms of Sleep. Which also makes you a bit of a predator and I am a predators predator among other things and I Enjoy my Work.

In wilder moments I can become convinced that it is coming from the Great Crazy Woman in the Sky.

Now that is FUN

I did not ask 'the reason', I said come reason with us. "Reason be damned"- then you are certainly in the wrong place and are welcome to continue your scavenging elsewhere.

 

[Hagbard]

I was actually an Adept when I resigned from the Temple.

I apologize if I have come off wrong. I was simply interested in discussion. I have no desire to be a predator, or prey. I do not wish to debate or argue. Enjoy your space.