Tennessee bans lots of Drag Shows and gender-affirming care for kids

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Isn’t that what the parents or guardians are for? Why would you assume the government knows better than a parent?

I don’t understand the American attitude towards government. When we discuss something like universal healthcare on this board you always hear many Americans saying they don’t trust the government to handle the financial aspects of healthcare care. But when we discuss this issue they want the government to override parental rights.

I don't think the government knows better how to raise my child. But when abuse happens the government should step in, don't you agree? You know that people are harmed by these procedures right? There are people that are detranistioning and are speaking out about their experiences. This is different than a government program.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Which study was that? Because every study I've had puts detransitioning below 10%, and the highest included intersex people that detransitioned from their assigned and surgically reinforced sex at birth, as well as people who detransitioned but didn't have regrets, such as detransitioning due to lack of financial access to HRT, or health reasons that made HRT impossible.

Generally the regret over transitioning is three times less than your average knee surgery.

We should definitely listen to detransitioners and why most detransition. But we also should definitely not use them as politically motivated ammunition against gender affirming care for anyone, minors included. As there are also plenty of stories where trans kids say gender affirming care saved their lives.

This site talks about the study.

Detransition: a Real and Growing Phenomenon

Over the last few years, a growing community of detransitioners has formed online. Despite the visibility recently given to the topic in mainstream media, including a recent 60 Minutes episode featuring detransitioners and their stories, detransition is still a poorly understood phenomenon. A...

segm.org

Detransition-Related Needs and Support: A Cross-Sectional Online Survey

The aim of this study is to analyze the specific needs of detransitioners from online detrans communities and discover to what extent they are being met. For this purpose, a cross-sectional online ...

www.tandfonline.com

45% of the people in the study said they were not fully informed of the health implications before undergoing them.

It is not politically motivated to be concerned about this treatment done to children. That is my objection that it is done to children. Do whatever you want as an adult. I think this qualifies as abuse.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This site talks about the study.

Detransition: a Real and Growing Phenomenon

Over the last few years, a growing community of detransitioners has formed online. Despite the visibility recently given to the topic in mainstream media, including a recent 60 Minutes episode featuring detransitioners and their stories, detransition is still a poorly understood phenomenon. A...

segm.org

Detransition-Related Needs and Support: A Cross-Sectional Online Survey

The aim of this study is to analyze the specific needs of detransitioners from online detrans communities and discover to what extent they are being met. For this purpose, a cross-sectional online ...

www.tandfonline.com

45% of the people in the study said they were not fully informed of the health implications before undergoing them.

It is not politically motivated to be concerned about this treatment done to children. That is my objection that it is done to children. Do whatever you want as an adult. I think this qualifies as abuse.

This has no mention of how many detransitioners out of total transitions there are. All it does is survey a detransitioning website.

In that study, (not actual medical case studies, just surveyed) less than a quarter reported starting any medical transition below 18 (and doesn't account for people forcefully transitioned by parents and doctors as intersex, and also retransitioners who detransitioned temporarily due to health concerns and went on to transition later when it was safe to do so). And over half of those respondents reported that there were unforseen health concerns which caused them to detransition.

This still sounds like knee surgery to me. Something with a very very high success rate and low failure rate, and the low failure rate mostly to unforseen other medical events which cause complication.

Certainly it's best to give all the health information for informed consent that's possible, especially in the US where engaging with patients holostically in general is incredibly weak, but hardly a reason to call the entire proceedings 'child abuse' or even less force the vast number who are happily transitioning to stop or reverse as conservatives are doing.

 

[fantome profane]

I don't think the government knows better how to raise my child. But when abuse happens the government should step in, don't you agree? You know that people are harmed by these procedures right? There are people that are detranistioning and are speaking out about their experiences. This is different than a government program.

How is it determined that abuse has actually occurred? If the parent, and the child, and the medical community all agree that no abuse has occurred, should the government step in? You do understand that lives are actually saved by these procedures right?

 

[SkepticThinker]

An example of young kids being taught that "evil is really good" is what is acceptable in society these days compared to the past.
What is acceptable is what teaches kids what society sees as good even if it was seen as evil in the past.
I have not got a specific example to share except the one I did say about the expectations on teens that they will have sex as teens, and this seems to be seen as a good thing these days, or certainly not as a bad thing.

If you don't actually have an example, then I don't know how or why you're making the claim.
Teens having sex is evil? I don't see how it's evil. Teens (or anyone for that matter) having unprotected sex is problematic though. But I wouldn't call it evil.

 

[metis]

I don't think the government knows better how to raise my child. But when abuse happens the government should step in, don't you agree? You know that people are harmed by these procedures right? There are people that are detranistioning and are speaking out about their experiences. This is different than a government program.

You got it backwards as it's some of the state governments who are trying to stop any transgender hormone therapy, not the family and their doctors.

 

[Brian2]

If you don't actually have an example, then I don't know how or why you're making the claim.
Teens having sex is evil? I don't see how it's evil. Teens (or anyone for that matter) having unprotected sex is problematic though. But I wouldn't call it evil.

We do have different ideas about what is right and wrong of course, and I did have an example even though it was not kids in a class room being taught evil things and being told they are not evil. But society teaches our values in a big way.

 

[SkepticThinker]

We do have different ideas about what is right and wrong of course, and I did have an example even though it was not kids in a class room being taught evil things and being told they are not evil. But society teaches our values in a big way.

Can you explain why you think teens having sex is evil?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Three days ago in Ohio a drag story hour had unambiguous, swastika flying, saluting, actual Nazi protesting. (Photo of said nazi and their flags under spoiler.)

Spoiler

We are now in a situation where states are ready to ban the sight of men in dresses or women in suits (drag kings are also a thing) around children. But literal nazi, the quintessential hate group so fundamentally evil it's become meme? They're free to come and go with their colors held high as they please.

What a ****ed up country this is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wish those who call themselves "conservatives" would actually act as if they were truly conservatives and not tell parents and doctors what they supposedly must or must not do or read. Trump and DeSantis are not acting like conservatives but more like neo-fascists dictating largely personal choices that others supposedly must follow.

I see them as going back in time, like when it was illegal throughout America to wear clothing of the opposite sex. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an effort among them to speak of being LGBT as though it's clinical and pathological as it used to be. Abortions are illegal, discrimination more easy and legal, contraceptions are poised for reillegalizing and instead of commies they are obsessed with drag queens.
Looks a pretty hardened Conservative bunch to me. This is, afterall, a group that has never been ok with interracial pairing and they aren't today.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Three days ago in Ohio a drag story hour had unambiguous, swastika flying, saluting, actual Nazi protesting. (Photo of said nazi and their flags under spoiler.)

Spoiler

View attachment 73149

We are now in a situation where states are ready to ban the sight of men in dresses or women in suits (drag kings are also a thing) around children. But literal nazi, the quintessential hate group so fundamentally evil it's become meme? They're free to come and go with their colors held high as they please.

What a ****ed up country this is.

Yup.

 

[metis]

I see them as going back in time, like when it was illegal throughout America to wear clothing of the opposite sex. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an effort among them to speak of being LGBT as though it's clinical and pathological as it used to be. Abortions are illegal, discrimination more easy and legal, contraceptions are poised for reillegalizing and instead of commies they are obsessed with drag queens.
Looks a pretty hardened Conservative bunch to me. This is, afterall, a group that has never been ok with interracial pairing and they aren't today.

With all of the problems this country should be facing, this is the nonsense these pseudo-conservatives can muster. Ask McCarthy & Co what to do with the Ukraine, as he was asked yesterday, and he let the room. Ask about what his budget proposal is going to be, and he doesn't answer. Ask how the banking defaults should be handled, and I betcha you won't get a serious answer. But they have their "culture wars" down pat.

 

[Kenny]

The Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation warned the Hyatt Regency Miami against hosting a "sexually explicit show with children present," but the hotel did anyway, according to a statement from Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' office.

"Therefore, the Department is revoking the venue’s license for the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages," the statement adds. "Sexually explicit content is not appropriate to display to children and doing so violates Florida law. Governor DeSantis stands up for the innocence of children in the classroom and throughout Florida."

...
During the event, performers showed their prosthetic breasts and genitals, rubbed their prosthetic female breasts on the faces and mouths of audience members, intentionally exposed their rears, were "simulating masturbation" and had "graphic depictions of childbirth and/or abortion," according to a complaint that the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation filed.

DeSantis administration is revoking Hyatt Regency Miami alcohol license after it hosted 'A Drag Queen Christmas'

The facility admitted people under the age of 18 as long as they were accompanied by an adult, but Florida regulators said that wasn't allowed.

www.businessinsider.com

Somehow I like DeSantis show better for the little children. (in this case)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation warned the Hyatt Regency Miami against hosting a "sexually explicit show with children present," but the hotel did anyway, according to a statement from Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' office.

"Therefore, the Department is revoking the venue’s license for the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages," the statement adds. "Sexually explicit content is not appropriate to display to children and doing so violates Florida law. Governor DeSantis stands up for the innocence of children in the classroom and throughout Florida."

...
During the event, performers showed their prosthetic breasts and genitals, rubbed their prosthetic female breasts on the faces and mouths of audience members, intentionally exposed their rears, were "simulating masturbation" and had "graphic depictions of childbirth and/or abortion," according to a complaint that the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation filed.

DeSantis administration is revoking Hyatt Regency Miami alcohol license after it hosted 'A Drag Queen Christmas'

The facility admitted people under the age of 18 as long as they were accompanied by an adult, but Florida regulators said that wasn't allowed.

www.businessinsider.com

Somehow I like DeSantis show better for the little children. (in this case)

Now lets see them prove there were actually any kids present.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

With all of the problems this country should be facing, this is the nonsense these pseudo-conservatives can muster. Ask McCarthy & Co what to do with the Ukraine, as he was asked yesterday, and he let the room. Ask about what his budget proposal is going to be, and he doesn't answer. Ask how the banking defaults should be handled, and I betcha you won't get a serious answer. But they have their "culture wars" down pat.

I agree there are far greater issues. But in Fly Over America this is just how they've always been. For them, it is conserving traiditional ways that they feel have been yanked from them. And keep in mind, these are the sort to believe their god sent a hurricane to New Orleans to punish it for being ok with gays.

 

[Brian2]

Can you explain why you think teens having sex is evil?

I choose not to.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I choose not to.

Okay. I was just asking because I had sex as a teenager and I didn't realize that I was evil.

 

[metis]

Okay. I was just asking because I had sex as a teenager and I didn't realize that I was evil.

Oh, shame on you!!!

Oh, wait a minute, I did as well! However, I did it probably a bit different than you, which may explain why I still love sushi so much.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Oh, shame on you!!!

Oh, wait a minute, I did as well! However, I did it probably a bit different than you, which may explain why I still love sushi so much.

I just choked on my coffee!

 

[metis]

I just choked on my coffee!

Well, there's a bit more to this story.

When 21, I accidentally knocked up my wife now of 56 years, but just when I found out she might be pregnant, another woman I was dating said she wanted to spend the night with me. I can't remember which movie it was whereas the main character had two women going into labor at the same hospital and he was going to be the father. Needless to say, I didn't go along with my other girlfriend but just smiled.

OK, so I wasn't a saint-- but I am now!