Terms of Use and Right to Repair

[Shadow Wolf]

It's an important issue. Corporations put anti-consumer clauses in their terms of use, and they don't care if we are excessively burdened by it.
We need a formal right to repair.
Tesla’s $16,000 Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

One Tesla Model 3 leasee discovered this first-hand after hitting road debris and damaging his battery pack. After taking his vehicle to a Tesla service center, he was handed an estimate for more than $16,000 to replace said pack. After seeking an alternative solution online, the owner reached out to Rich Benoit and the team at Electrified Garage who got him on the road again for just $700.
The problem started after the rear-wheel-drive Tesla Model 3 struck some road debris which damaged the electric vehicle's cooling system. Underneath the car, a coolant line runs sideways along the tunnel where the front drive unit would normally sit and attaches to a nipple located on the battery pack. The debris struck the part and cracked the flange, resulting in coolant leaking from the battery pack.
After the vehicle was towed to a Tesla service center and inspected, the driver was told that he would need a completely new pack since the cracked part was molded into the existing one's outer shell. And because a Model 3's pack isn't serviceable at a standard Tesla service center, it can only be swapped out for another unit rather than be repaired.

And the fix was relatively simple.

Fortunately, the shop had another significantly cheaper solution it had used once before. The existing nipple was cut off of the pack, cleaned up, and threaded back into the battery pack housing using a brass fitting like you'd find at any home improvement store. The total cost? Around $700, but we suspect the majority of that cost was diagnostics and labor.

But Tesla doesn't believe in Right to Repair or consumer choice.

Tesla's Legal page has an "Unsupported or Salvage Vehicle Policy" which covers salvaged vehicles as a whole, whether or not the reason for being salvaged is related to the high voltage battery pack. Specifically, it states that Tesla will permanently disable access to its Supercharging network for any unsupported repairs to protect its own vehicles and its repair technicians. Tesla also reportedly decided to disable fast charging using third-party chargers under the same reasoning last year.

So, do a repair they don't authorize or approve, and lose access to a charging network. I don't see how that isn't extortion.
And have a complaint or question about it? Oh well. Telsa did away with that department.

Normally, this is where we would ask Tesla about this, but since it dissolved its public relations department, there's nobody to officially comment.

 

[Valjean]

The corporate grip on our lives only increases. We're forced to buy new products when the old ones wear out -- by design. What should be an easy repair is prevented -- by design. Products are engineered to use only their own, proprietary, parts and supplies -- read: costly. They're engineered to break or become non-functional whenever a new model is released. Read: You must throw out your perfectly serviceable "old" model now, and buy a new one.

 

[Revoltingest]

Easy solution....
Don't buy a Tesla.
I've fixed all sorts of things on a Ford, Chevy,
Buick, Dodge, VW, International, & Rolls Royce.

 

[Valjean]

Easy solution....
Don't buy a Tesla.
I've fixed all sorts of things on a Ford, Chevy,
Buick, Dodge, VW, International, & Rolls Royce.

And don't even think about buying any new farm equipment... like a tractor...

 

[Revoltingest]

And don't even think about buying any new farm equipment... like a tractor...

The wise purchaser would investigate
the brand & model before buying.

 

[icehorse]

Great OP.

In the states (and probably elsewhere), there is a thing called the maker movement that's been around for maybe 15 years or so. One of their sayings is: "If you can't open it, you don't own it."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Easy solution....
Don't buy a Tesla.
I've fixed all sorts of things on a Ford, Chevy,
Buick, Dodge, VW, International, & Rolls Royce.

It's all going this way.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Great OP.

In the states (and probably elsewhere), there is a thing called the maker movement that's been around for maybe 15 years or so. One of their sayings is: "If you can't open it, you don't own it."

 

[Revoltingest]

It's all going this way.

We will see.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We will see.

John Deere has sued farmers for moding the software of tractors the farmer paid for with his own money, along with being very stubborn when it comes to selling repair parts to non-licensed vendors. Amazon pulled a file/print that contained animal farm and 1984 off people's kindles. Nintendo has sued over breeches of contract for modding tings. Sony issued a cease and desist to a company making custom face plates for the ps5. And they can all update, change, modify, or terminate an agreement without reason and without notifying the user.
Cars are increasingly taking this route as they become more computerized. We'll probably see more examples of extortion from other companies as electric vehicles become more common and replace ICE cars.

 

[Revoltingest]

John Deere has sued farmers for moding the software of tractors the farmer paid for with his own money, along with being very stubborn when it comes to selling repair parts to non-licensed vendors. Amazon pulled a file/print that contained animal farm and 1984 off people's kindles. Nintendo has sued over breeches of contract for modding tings. Sony issued a cease and desist to a company making custom face plates for the ps5. And they can all update, change, modify, or terminate an agreement without reason and without notifying the user.
Cars are increasingly taking this route as they become more computerized. We'll probably see more examples of extortion from other companies as electric vehicles become more common and replace ICE cars.

If people don't take care to understand what they're
buying, they should expect unpleasant surprises.

 

[Valjean]

John Deere has sued farmers for moding the software of tractors the farmer paid for with his own money, along with being very stubborn when it comes to selling repair parts to non-licensed vendors. Amazon pulled a file/print that contained animal farm and 1984 off people's kindles. Nintendo has sued over breeches of contract for modding tings. Sony issued a cease and desist to a company making custom face plates for the ps5. And they can all update, change, modify, or terminate an agreement without reason and without notifying the user.
Cars are increasingly taking this route as they become more computerized. We'll probably see more examples of extortion from other companies as electric vehicles become more common and replace ICE cars.

Electronics firms colluded many decades ago to limit the lifespan of light bulbs to ~1,000 hours.
HP issued a product update preventing anyone from using non-HP ink cartridges in their printers.
Several printer manufacturers programmed their machines to break down after a certain number of copies. (there are hacks to reset them on You Tube.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Electronics firms colluded many decades ago to limit the lifespan of light bulbs to ~1,000 hours.
HP issued a product update preventing anyone from using non-HP ink cartridges in their printers.
Several printer manufacturers programmed their machines to break down after a certain number of copies. (there are hacks to reset them on You Tube.)

Odd....I'm getting tens of thousands of hours out of light bulbs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If people don't take care to understand what they're
buying, they should expect unpleasant surprises.

This "responsible consumer" thing has beyond failed. It's so unreliable that those few of us who do take the time to learn about this stuff are stuck in a world dominated by people who've been mindlessly clicking "I agree" without every actually knowing what they are agreeing to. This has been such a long standing issue that I read a story on Compuserve news in the days of dialup on how these agreements are becoming increasingly wordy and complicated, with the average one having a higher word count than Hamlet.
It's gotten to the point it's agree to very heavily one-sided agreements or don't participate in society.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Odd....I'm getting tens of thousands of hours out of light bulbs.

The Phoebus Cartel : Throughline

Prior to 1924, the average lifespan of a light bulb was around 2,500 hours. But in December 1924, a global organization known as the Phoebus Cartel hatched a secret plan to increase sales by bringing the average bulb's lifespan down to just 1,000 hours. This began one of the first known examples of planned obsolescence.

 

[Revoltingest]

This "responsible consumer" thing has beyond failed. It's so unreliable that those few of us who do take the time to learn about this stuff are stuck in a world dominated by people who've been mindlessly clicking "I agree" without every actually knowing what they are agreeing to. This has been such a long standing issue that I read a story on Compuserve news in the days of dialup on how these agreements are becoming increasingly wordy and complicated, with the average one having a higher word count than Hamlet.
It's gotten to the point it's agree or don't participate in society.

Anyone buying a tractor costing $100k+ would do well
to talk to other owners of the same tractor before buying.
When I needed a forklift specifically for moving machinery,
I sought advice from the company I use for service.
(Not all forklifts are suitable.)

 

[Revoltingest]

The Phoebus Cartel : Throughline

No matter what conspiracy theories there are,
my light bulbs are doing fine.
Oh, when I buy HVAC equipment & appliances, I
choose brands based upon who can service them.
(I have preferred companies for pre & post warranty
work.) It's just common sense. It works.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Anyone buying a tractor costing $100k+ would do well
to talk to other owners of the same tractor before buying.

They probably do. But what do you suppose they are discussing? Reliability? Maintenance schedule? Durability? This little clauses scattered in that made them agree to not modify the software and to agree to any legal consequences that arise should they violate those clauses?
How many people do you suppose even read that? They bought, they [rightfully should] own it. But we can't assume that anymore because it's been taken away from us. And not just with repair techs but owning the actual devices and software itself. A lot of that we do not legally own. We paid for the privilege of use, and agreed to it. That's also how these corporations are able to get away with it.

 

[Revoltingest]

They probably do. But what do you suppose they are discussing? Reliability? Maintenance schedule? Durability? This little clauses scattered in that made them agree to not modify the software and to agree to any legal consequences that arise should they violate those clauses?
How many people do you suppose even read that? They bought, they [rightfully should] own it. But we can't assume that anymore because it's been taken away from us. And not just with repair techs but owning the actual devices and software itself. A lot of that we do not legally own. We paid for the privilege of use, and agreed to it. That's also how these corporations are able to get away with it.

Even without reading boilerplate, other users can
speak about their experiences with the product.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No matter what conspiracy theories there are,
my light bulbs are doing fine.
Oh, when I buy HVAC equipment & appliances, I
choose brands based upon who can service them.
(I have preferred companies for pre & post warranty
work.) It's just common sense. It works.

You were probably just an egg in your mom when this happened. It didn't effect you. It was 1924. Clearly we've moved on since then.
This thread is a modern example of the same behavior - increase and protect profits to ends that are anti-consumer.