Terms of Use and Right to Repair

[Shadow Wolf]

Even without reading boilerplate, other users can
speak about their experiences with the product.

Yeah, and most of them probably don't routinely modify things. I do. It's why stories like this are of interest to me. And even though for me it's a personal interest, it is something that directly effects all of us in many ways. And a part of that is people do not read what they agree to, and they mostly aren't doing things that would violate those agreements. But everyone in awhile someone comes along who wants to customize an item they conventionally own to be better tailed and suited for a specific need or purpose. These are the outlier users, and occasionally one of them is taken to court (Nintendo is currently struggling to comprehend they can't squeeze blood from a dry turnip they uprooted and cut off from it's source of sustenance). Basically because they are stuck living in a society that everybody else blindly agreed to.

 

[Revoltingest]

You were probably just an egg in your mom when this happened. It didn't effect you. It was 1924. Clearly we've moved on since then.
This thread is a modern example of the same behavior - increase and protect profits to ends that are anti-consumer.

Then this spells opportunities for other
companies to sell products people will like.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Then this spells opportunities for other
companies to sell products people will like.

Didn't happen then.
Or, to better illustrate it: Edison "won" the War of the Currents because he was first and foremost a Capitalist looking to profit (He really wasn't an inventor. His name is just on a bunch of stuff that others invented), and he did deliberately hold back Tesla's ideas and did deliberately smear AC because it's cheaper and would require far fewer power plants than his DC.
Today, companies like AT&T have legally rigged the game so that no one else can come along and challenge them in any meaningful, effective, or competitive way.

 

[Valjean]

Odd....I'm getting tens of thousands of hours out of light bulbs.

Old style, incandescent bulbs?
The Great Light Bulb Conspiracy

 

[Revoltingest]

Didn't happen then.
Or, to better illustrate it: Edison "won" the War of the Currents because he was first and foremost a Capitalist looking to profit (He really wasn't an inventor. His name is just on a bunch of stuff that others invented), and he did deliberately hold back Tesla's ideas and did deliberately smear AC because it's cheaper and would require far fewer power plants than his DC.
Today, companies like AT&T have legally rigged the game so that no one else can come along and challenge them in any meaningful, effective, or competitive way.

Edison is long gone.
And for products I buy, there is much competition.

 

[Revoltingest]

Old style, incandescent bulbs?
The Great Light Bulb Conspiracy

I use all LED bulbs these days.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Edison is long gone.
And for products I buy, there is much competition.

Have you ever noticed internet availability in a city doesn't depend on what is available in the city but what is available at a specific address?
That was by design to stifle and deter competition.

 

[Revoltingest]

Have you ever noticed internet availability in a city doesn't depend on what is available in the city but what is available at a specific address?
That was by design to stifle and deter competition.

Explain.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Explain.

A good example was an AT&T store in Indiana that can't use AT&T internet at that location because it's not available at that address.
Where I am currently, Spectrum is available in this city but not at this address.
This is because cable and later internet companies would lobby for a system that does this, to not classify as a utility, throttled connections, but also why cable boxes have not had any real significant design updates in decades and in the average home is the most power hungry device. There's no real reason to improve or redesign when people dont have an alternative to turn to because of successful lobbying that clubbed the compitition in the knee.

 

[Revoltingest]

A good example was an AT&T store in Indiana that can't use AT&T internet at that location because it's not available at that address.
Where I am currently, Spectrum is available in this city but not at this address.
This is because cable and later internet companies would lobby for a system that does this, to not classify as a utility, throttled connections, but also why cable boxes have not had any real significant design updates in decades and in the average home is the most power hungry device. There's no real reason to improve or redesign when people dont have an alternative to turn to because of successful lobbying that clubbed the compitition in the knee.

I've never run across such restrictions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I've never run across such restrictions.

I can assure you, it's common.
I did try to find stories but all I got were ads for internet service. There is an example where one was able to use this against AT&T and beat them out in it. But that story is rare.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Watched this the other day. Basically Biden's administration has directed that right to repair is important and that FCC etc should tighten rules about it and find ways to get manufactures to stop ripping people off, preventing repairs.

The order mentions cell phones and tractors.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Electronics firms colluded many decades ago to limit the lifespan of light bulbs to ~1,000 hours.
HP issued a product update preventing anyone from using non-HP ink cartridges in their printers.
Several printer manufacturers programmed their machines to break down after a certain number of copies. (there are hacks to reset them on You Tube.)

Planned Obsolescence.

It's way out of control now.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Watched this the other day. Basically Biden's administration has directed that right to repair is important and that FCC etc should tighten rules about it and find ways to get manufactures to stop ripping people off, preventing repairs.

The order mentions cell phones and tractors.

His infrastructure bill also looks at expanding municipal internet services and lifting state restrictions against it.
It'll be great to see it happen, but it's a long, uphill battle on a very steep slope.

 

[pearl]

But Tesla doesn't believe in Right to Repair or consumer choice.

In Massachusetts the 'Right to Repair' was on the ballot, and won.

 

[Heyo]

It's an important issue. Corporations put anti-consumer clauses in their terms of use, and they don't care if we are excessively burdened by it.
We need a formal right to repair.
Tesla’s $16,000 Quote for a $700 Fix Is Why Right to Repair Matters

And the fix was relatively simple.

But Tesla doesn't believe in Right to Repair or consumer choice.

So, do a repair they don't authorize or approve, and lose access to a charging network. I don't see how that isn't extortion.
And have a complaint or question about it? Oh well. Telsa did away with that department.

Another sign of "late stage capitalism". The capitalists mantra of "the market will take care of it" was never right and it doesn't really work any more as propaganda when the experience contradicts it.
Yes, competition is good for the consumer - that's why corporation try to stifle it at all costs.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I actually support right to repair.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Another sign of "late stage capitalism". The capitalists mantra of "the market will take care of it" was never right and it doesn't really work any more as propaganda when the experience contradicts it.
Yes, competition is good for the consumer - that's why corporation try to stifle it at all costs.

It's never worked. The "Crisis of the Commons" was not solved with privatization. The entire system is based on faculty assumptions about human nature. It's actually gotten worse with the an mentality that feels entitled to whatever as long as you can pay for it. That has stripped the Earth of resources way quicker than thousands and thousands of years of common ownership ever managed to do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I actually support right to repair.

We also should teach basic repair in school. That alone I feel can change society.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We also should teach basic repair in school. That alone I feel can change society.

I think trades will be a boon as an alternative to college.

Anything to help people achieve independence and self capable I'm all for. No partisanship along those lines for sure.

I'm still miffed I need to register my ONN television just to have a repair with an agreement it's only at an authorized repair shop of its choosing and not mine.


I just donated my TV to the self taught module of television repair for dummies. *grin*