Terrorist attack in Paris: 12 dead, 7 injured

[Estro Felino]

now all the French people, including Tariq Ramadan, who said that Marine Le Pen is a paranoid, will shut up.

so Tariq Ramadan will lose consensus

 

[oldbadger]

oldbadger, I literally had my life threatened by jihadee types in London who were openly showing their colors and bias. There are a lot of them there.

Actually, perhaps I should ask, any members of Al Queda in France here on RF?

Wow! I'm sorry to hear that.
I'm glad that you were not hurt, though, although the shock of the threats would alone be a trauma never forgotten.

 

[oldbadger]

The key words are "this time". I think you'll agree that this is not just France's problem.

Correct....... sadly!
I don't believe that we are ever going to resolve these frictions, hatreds and conflicts.

 

[sandandfoam]

She's not paranoid. She is right wing, nationalist and anti immigration. Much like UKIP. I cannot abide her attitudes.

I am really overwhelmed that this massacre happened.
so all the French people, including Tariq Ramadan, who said that Marine Le Pen is a paranoid, will shut up.

so Tariq Ramadan will lose consensus
Tarid Ramadan, cher monsieur, think of educating the French Muslims to the respect of secularism, instead of saying idiocies...

 

[oldbadger]

So we must never be intimidated by thugs of any variety. As for teasing, I think it's a sign of a mature religion that it can laugh at itself. You could make jokes about Buddha all day, I might get a bit irritated after a while, but I'm not going to start murdering people over it. That's the point, surely.

I preferred the Doctor Evil!!!!
When the dust has settled, maybe we could debate the issues of free speech, free expression, criticising, teasing, ridiculing, goading etc..... ??

I think that at this time we are too close to these disgusting acts of terrorism for such a debate to take place ....... what d'you reckon?

 

[oldbadger]

Suffolk coast. No problems out here, apart from pesky seagulls.

Sophisticated Aldeburgh?
Smelly old Lowestoft?
Not bloody Ipswich!

 

[Estro Felino]

She's not paranoid. She is right wing, nationalist and anti immigration. Much like UKIP. I cannot abide her attitudes.

I am against the Euro and against the European Union. so I support UKIP

 

[sandandfoam]

I am against the Euro and against the European Union. so I support UKIP

Like you I don't support the Euro or the EU. At the same time I don't much like right wing nut jobs like UKIP or FN either.

 

[Estro Felino]

Like you I don't support the Euro or the EU. At the same time I don't much like right wing nut jobs like UKIP or FN either.

I know little about UKIP, but I know everything about Marine Le Pen, and I don't think she's a lunatic. She is a true politician; if I were a statesman, I would behave exactly as her.

 

[Riverwolf]

That's semantics.

No, it's accuracy.

Frankly I'm getting tired of the "semantics" card. It sounds too much like an excuse.

Civilization is the ability to live as a group. These monsters apparently can't make it that far, and doing everything you can to appease them isn't civilization, it's surrender.

I have no intention of appeasing them. However, even by your new definition(and still wrong; humans can't live except in social context), they seem to live just fine as a group.

The Roman Civilization is my ancestral enemy. But I still acknowledge their status as civilization, as opposed to my ancestral cultures they tried to wipe out, who lived primarily in villages and thus were not civilizations.

 

[Wu Wei]

Civilization: noun

1. an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and government has been reached.

2. those people or nations that have reached such a state.

3. any type of culture, society, etc., of a specific place, time, or group: Greek civilization.

4. the act or process of civilizing, as by bringing out of a savage, uneducated, or unrefined state, or of being civilized : Rome's civilization of barbaric tribes was admirable.

5. cultural refinement; refinement of thought and cultural appreciation:
The letters of Madame de Sévigné reveal her wit and civilization.

6. cities or populated areas in general, as opposed to unpopulated or wilderness areas:
The plane crashed in the jungle, hundreds of miles from civilization.

7. modern comforts and conveniences, as made possible by science and technology:
After a week in the woods, without television or even running water, the campers looked forward to civilization again.

 

[Wirey]

More literalists!

 

[Pastek]

I hope they got at least one Islamic terrorist for interogation. Islamic terrorists have many languages.

They said there was 2 terrorists in the supermarket but one died.
Now they aren't talking about that second terrorist, and the girl is still missing. So maybe we'll have more information very soon.

 

[ShivaFan]

Looks like more chasing down is in order ... but ...

I want to THANK and congratulate the French Police and French forces and strike forces. They did an OUTSTANDING job! Viva la France!

 

[Wu Wei]

More literalists!

Nah... words have meanings and generally we follow those meaning to have a conversation. If one decides to make up his or her own meaning then the conversation goes awry and there is no conversation. It becomes two (Or more people) making statements that have little meaning to the topic at hand

If you may define civilization as 3 caves together but the rest of the world doesn't based on the actual definition then it is not semantics..... it is miss understanding of the meaning of the word.

Also if you are applying literalist it is not generally applied to definitions of words (or numbers) those are excepted as the meaning of those words. Literalist interpretation would be applied to law, translations or an expression or a portrayal of something.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are right, people should not kill for such things, but they should not kill anyway.
But as you show the vid from the late Hitchen, I need to say that it is not religion that is responsible for this, but the politics of religion. Politics is always the problem. It is that that takes us into war, and has done now. People can believe whatever, that is unimportant; but it is important what they do with their believes, just as the communist atheist did in the past; and who would want that to return.

As a passerby said in america when stopped by a tv crew, ''They must really hate us to fly planes into buildings''. Wise words I think. Perhaps we should have stopped and listened to him, instead of fighting two wars, one of which was illegal, but a good way to get an oil line in according to RT news (if I recall correctly).

You can't continually abuse people and think there will be no retaliation, whether we accept their actions or not. Why don't we all just grow up a bit and put down our weapons. i have heard one of the cartoonists say in France that 'the will continue on with their cartoons' or words to that effect. So we have learnt nothing again! And so the sorry story of the human race continues.

How about these terrorists grow up a bit and join the rest of us in the twenty-first century and stop killing innocent people for drawing cartoons in order to expose bad ideas? The ideas these people have are bad ones. Killing someone because you've personally been offended is not acceptable. It is a bad idea. Killing innocent people because you think they've offended your god is a bad idea. Can't your god take care of such people on his own? What does he need you for?

I used to say the same thing you do ... that clearly they have a problem with us invading and occupying their countries and if we just stopped doing that, they'd probably stop murdering innocent people on airplanes, in supermarkets, on the streets, in news rooms, etc. But then I realized these are all just the excuses of fanatics. Salmon Rushdie didn't invade any of their countries, he just wrote a book they didn't like. But he now has to spend the rest of his life in hiding from these people because they want to kill him. Ayaan Hirsi Ali didn't invade anybody's country. She simply pointed out the terrible and oppressive ideas she finds within Islamic belief to the world, and now she too has to face the rest of her life under constant threat of death from these people. Theo Van Gogh didn't invade anybody's country. He drew some cartoons and for that he was murdered in the streets. The cartoonists from Charlie Hebdo who were murdered by these thugs didn't invade anybody. But now they're dead because they exercised their right to free speech in order to expose bad ideas.

I think it's our duty as human beings to expose bad ideas wherever they are. Especially bad ideas that result in harm and death to people. Whether it's a religious belief, or a political belief or anything else. People who use their words to do this do not deserve death. How about fighting back with words instead of confirming that your belief is in fact a bad one by murdering people who say things you don't like.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Salmon Rushdie didn't invade any of their countries, he just wrote a book they didn't like. But he now has to spend the rest of his life in hiding from these people because they want to kill him.

Yes, how quickly people forget.

 

[Robert.Evans]

How about these terrorists grow up a bit and join the rest of us in the twenty-first century and stop killing innocent people for drawing cartoons in order to expose bad ideas? The ideas these people have are bad ones. Killing someone because you've personally been offended is not acceptable. It is a bad idea. Killing innocent people because you think they've offended your god is a bad idea. Can't your god take care of such people on his own? What does he need you for?

I used to say the same thing you do ... that clearly they have a problem with us invading and occupying their countries and if we just stopped doing that, they'd probably stop murdering innocent people on airplanes, in supermarkets, on the streets, in news rooms, etc. But then I realized these are all just the excuses of fanatics. Salmon Rushdie didn't invade any of their countries, he just wrote a book they didn't like. But he now has to spend the rest of his life in hiding from these people because they want to kill him. Ayaan Hirsi Ali didn't invade anybody's country. She simply pointed out the terrible and oppressive ideas she finds within Islamic belief to the world, and now she too has to face the rest of her life under constant threat of death from these people. Theo Van Gogh didn't invade anybody's country. He drew some cartoons and for that he was murdered in the streets. The cartoonists from Charlie Hebdo who were murdered by these thugs didn't invade anybody. But now they're dead because they exercised their right to free speech in order to expose bad ideas.

I think it's our duty as human beings to expose bad ideas wherever they are. Especially bad ideas that result in harm and death to people. Whether it's a religious belief, or a political belief or anything else. People who use their words to do this do not deserve death. How about fighting back with words instead of confirming that your belief is in fact a bad one by murdering people who say things you don't like.

You certainly should not kill, but you should not provoke either. If you read the OT, they killed for blasphemy.
There is a difference between the East and West. We in the West often put ourselves above people and look down on them when they are in different countries, but in our own we accept them. Time to accept them all I say. Provocation is not acceptable nor should it be allowed under the guise of freedom of speech, when in fact, there is no such thing as freedom of speech.
In the main, I agree with you, but we have to remember we are on planet earth, and dealing with the human race. They are not perfect. So don't wind up toy soldiers is what I say lest they turn round and shoot you. I do not think it is our duty, however, to point out when someone else is not in line with our morals or thinking. That is there country not ours. we have no right to judge them. We have done enough atrocities in the West to our own and theirs. We should sweep our own doorstep before we try to sweep someone else's.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I do not think it is our duty, however, to point out when someone else is not in line with our morals or thinking.

I agree, and the west's "crusades" in the Middle East have done a great deal of damage. On the other hand though, if people choose to live in a secular democracy then surely they need to accept the values and laws of that society, and not attempt to undermine them with cowardly terrorist atrocities.

 

[oldbadger]

Like you I don't support the Euro or the EU. At the same time I don't much like right wing nut jobs like UKIP or FN either.

True....... true........ UKIP seems to be crazier than a box of frogs on hallucinogen mushrooms.
But I'm going to vote for 'em, because our comfortable, over-paid, over-expensed, lazy and complacent system needs to be woken up, and I would like to see a box of frogs emptied out, straight into bed with the lot of 'em!