Terrorist attack in Toronto

[Vinayaka]

Seems to me this was a suicide attempt caused by anger at society, and unfortunately he decided to take a few folks with him. Sad stuff.

 

[BSM1]

I agree. What do we do? Engineer our cities so that nothing can possibly go wrong?

Actually I was painting with a broader brush.

No, no - let everyone drive on the sidewalk. The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a van is a good guy with a van. Once we have lots of people driving on the sidewalk, then we’ll be safe.

Not a bad idea. The sidewalks would be so congested no one could move.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Seems to me this was a suicide caused by anger at society, and unfortunately he decided to take a few folks with him. Sad stuff.

Probably true. Whether it is directed anger or just generalised to all others, these kinds of incidents are almost impossible to prevent. They often arise from suicidal intentions with the aim to take as many others as possible, regardless of their innocence. They don't care. All they seem to want to do is to get others to feel the pain that they might feel. The more we exclude people, the more we will get such stuff - the means to carry them out are basically irrelevant - van or car or whatever.

 

[Stevicus]

I read this morning that the attacker apparently identified with Elliot Rodger.

What We Know About Toronto Van Attack Suspect Alek Minassian

Minassian reportedly praised the University of California, Santa Barbara killer
A Facebook profile that appeared to belong to Minassian included a post Monday that praised Elliot Rodger, who killed six people and injured 14 others at the 2014 attack at the University of California, Santa Barbara, CNN reports.

The message read, in part, “All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!”

Rodger had crashed his car into pedestrians, shot at passersby and stabbed others during the incident.

Toronto van attack suspect Alek Minassian 'an involuntary celibate' and 'praised mass killer Elliot Rodger' in Facebook posts before massacre

The second article indicates that Minassian called himself an "involuntary celibate" (???) and praised Elliot Rodger.

There was also another guy with a similar name, Alex Minassian, who was not involved at all. But he was apparently getting flak over this as well.

 

[Revoltingest]

I see the NRA apologists are already out. Not seen many vans driven around classrooms lately though

btw my condolences to all involved

Ho hum....and the anti-gun types are out making hay with this tragedy too.
I prefer to imagine solutions to problems.

Mark my word....invest in bollard manufacturers & installers.

 

[David1967]

After all, the October 1, 2017 Las Vegas attack killed 58 people and injured 851 in exactly ten minutes. Is that what you think a van can do?

I guess it depends on how crowded the street is. Bump stocks IMO, should not be legal just to be clear. Sad thing is, evil people will always find alternate means to carry out tragic things like we seen in Toronto or Las Vegas, etc. Sadly.

 

[Axe Elf]

You would prefer the dude in the van had used a bump stock equipped rifle at a concert? After all, the October 1, 2017 Las Vegas attack killed 58 people and injured 851 in exactly ten minutes. Is that what you think a van can do?

A van equipped with a bump stock could easily mow down 1000 people or more in less than ten minutes.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't know how many more of these incidents it will take for the government to institute some kind of sensible van control.

It's time for some proper legislation.

I've been shouting off the rooftop over the insanity of vehicles killing people on both sides of the Border!

 

[Twilight Hue]

A van equipped with a bump stock could easily mow down 1000 people or more in less than ten minutes.

Think Death Race 2000!

 

[Sunstone]

I guess it depends on how crowded the street is. Bump stocks IMO, should not be legal just to be clear. Sad thing is, evil people will always find alternate means to carry out tragic things like we seen in Toronto or Las Vegas, etc. Sadly.

Dave, the thing I don't get is the reluctance of some of us to grasp that a stick of dynamite thrown into a crowd is going to cause more damage than a rock, and a firearm discharged into a crowd is going to cause more damage than a knife. I mean, I just don't get it. I can understand wishing it were as simple as "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and "if they hadn't used a gun, they would have used something else just as lethal". I can understand wishing those things were true. I cannot understand being able to convince myself those things are true.

If it were up to me, the whole country would treat guns like my hometown did when I was growing up. As things never to be used against another human except in last resort self-defense. My county had one murder by firearm in the whole of its 127 year history until I left for university. Just one murder in all that time. But I can't say that ethic of self-control when it comes to firearms is something you see everywhere in this country. People lose their liberties by first becoming corrupt.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Toronto van attack suspect Alek Minassian 'an involuntary celibate' and 'praised mass killer Elliot Rodger' in Facebook posts before massacre

The second article indicates that Minassian called himself an "involuntary celibate" (???) and praised Elliot Rodger.

"Incels" are a whole can of worms, if you want to go there. But the TL:dr version, imagine the most self entitled person you can, who is absolutely enraged that the rest of the world doesn't deliver his entitlements to him on a plate, and genuinely thinks people should pay dearly for that unacceptable state of affairs.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It's time for some proper legislation.

I've been shouting off the rooftop over the insanity of vehicles killing people on both sides of the Border!

And everyone has been shouting back at you that guns should be at least as regulated as vans already are, a point you seem unable to entertain.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I guess it depends on how crowded the street is. Bump stocks IMO, should not be legal just to be clear. Sad thing is, evil people will always find alternate means to carry out tragic things like we seen in Toronto or Las Vegas, etc. Sadly.

But is there any reason to make it easy for them?

 

[Stevicus]

"Incels" are a whole can of worms, if you want to go there. But the TL:dr version, imagine the most self entitled person you can, who is absolutely enraged that the rest of the world doesn't deliver his entitlements to him on a plate, and genuinely thinks people should pay dearly for that unacceptable state of affairs.

Yeah, I remember when this came up during the Elliot Rodger case, and from what I was reading earlier, this seems to be a similar case. I'm sure we'll hear more about this in the coming days.

"Incel" seems like such an absurd term to me. On its face, "involuntary celibate" makes it seem like there's some sort of physical disability, which can and does happen to a lot of unfortunate men out there. But with "incels," it's not physical; it's all mental.

I was looking for more information on this, and I found this link: What Is Incel? Alek Minassian Cited a Reddit-Banned Group on Facebook | Inverse

They referenced a post he made on Facebook:

“Private (Recruit) Minassian Infantry 00010, wishing to speak to Sgt 4chan please. C23249161. The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys!"

What is Incel?
There is a lot to unpack in his post, but the first thing is incel. The term is shorthand for involuntary celibate, and it’s a moniker used by a subsection of men’s rights activists that blame women and alpha males for their inability to have sex. The group’s subreddit, r/Incel, which Business Insider claims had around 40,000 members, was shut down by Reddit in November of 2017. The move came after Reddit updated its content policies, prompting a wave of bans on communities that incited hate speech or violence.

The subreddit served as one of several online spaces for self-described incels to mope about not being liked by women, and the forum apparently often veered into territory that was aggressive and misogynistic enough to merit being banned. According to Business Insider, the subreddit also often praised Elliot Rodger, the 22-year-old who killed six people and wounded 14 near the University of California in 2014. Rodger’s killing spree ended with him turning the gun on himself, but he left behind a 107,000-word manifesto detailing his inability to lose his virginity because of the “cruelness of women.” R/incel often referred to Rodger as “Saint Elliot.”

"I laugh at the death of normies": How incels are celebrating the Toronto mass killing

https://nypost.com/2018/04/24/misogynist-internet-incels-praise-deadly-toronto-attack/

Reddit is like a toxic waste dump for the internet.

 

[Ellen Brown]

9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians in north Toronto | CBC News

There's a video circulating showing the driver attempting to get the police to shoot him by quick drawing his cell phone. The cop held fire, fortunately. I hope this butthole gets exactly what he has coming.

When you said, "terrorist attack" I automatically thought Muslim. Hmmm Perhaps he is just another nutter off his meds?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Yeah, I remember when this came up during the Elliot Rodger case, and from what I was reading earlier, this seems to be a similar case. I'm sure we'll hear more about this in the coming days.

"Incel" seems like such an absurd term to me. On its face, "involuntary celibate" makes it seem like there's some sort of physical disability, which can and does happen to a lot of unfortunate men out there. But with "incels," it's not physical; it's all mental.

I was looking for more information on this, and I found this link: What Is Incel? Alek Minassian Cited a Reddit-Banned Group on Facebook | Inverse

They referenced a post he made on Facebook:





"I laugh at the death of normies": How incels are celebrating the Toronto mass killing

https://nypost.com/2018/04/24/misogynist-internet-incels-praise-deadly-toronto-attack/

Reddit is like a toxic waste dump for the internet.

I Reddit, I think it's generally pretty good, as such things go. The whole point of the platform is to give everyone a venue. That said, some of the groups who make use of the platform are pretty scary and toxic. Incels and Red Pillers particularly.

Incels DO talk about their celibacy as though it is a disability beyond their control, and literally expect other people should fix the problem for them, that they are owed sex. As a case study in internalised self destructive belief, they're very interesting. Unfortunately actually talking to them is rather like auto eroticism with a cheese grater.

 

[Twilight Hue]

And everyone has been shouting back at you that guns should be at least as regulated as vans already are, a point you seem unable to entertain.

You can't apparently entertain the fact that cars/vehicles kill more people. Givin the oh so great regulations on cars/vehicles with the death toll so high using them, why on God's green earth do you think that gun regs are going to get better results??

You need to get off that high horse. It's clouding your perspective when it comes to human death tolls as a lever for debate.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You can't apparently entertain the fact that cars/vehicles kill more people. Givin the oh so great regulations on cars/vehicles with the death toll so high using them, why on God's green earth do you think that gun regs are going to get better results??

Having some trouble with the concept of risk exposure, eh?

 

[David1967]

But is there any reason to make it easy for them?

Absolutely not.

 

[Revoltingest]

You can't apparently entertain the fact that cars/vehicles kill more people. Givin the oh so great regulations on cars/vehicles with the death toll so high using them, why on God's green earth do you think that gun regs are going to get better results??

You need to get off that high horse. It's clouding your perspective when it comes to human death tolls as a lever for debate.

I seen an opportunity for useful gun control in this event.
Consider the Canuckistanian cop's reaction to Alek Minassian's (AM) attempt to commit "suicide by cop".

In the video Minassian shouts that he has a gun and then says: "Kill me." The officer, hailed a hero for not opening fire, declines and demands Minassian "get down" before he is arrested.

This appears to differ with standard practice in Americastan, which is "When in doubt, shoot".
I recommend that our cops be trained more in the direction of preserving life.

Ref...
Toronto suspect begged police to shoot him after van ploughs into pedestrians leaving ten dead