The Absolute Truth

[ecco]

Of course, it is obvious that ALL scripture can be misunderstood by fallible humans, many Christians and Muslims believe, as previously cited, that it cannot be misunderstood concerning foundation basics.

The Baha'i Faith does not make the claim that many believers make for ancient scripture. The Baha'i Faith considers all scripture evolving, temporal, and not Absolute.

So you are admitting that the writings of your Balulah are not to be trusted. I knew they couldn't be trusted shortly after a Bahai started quoting them to me many months go.

Your bias and ignorance proceed you.

My bias against rabid theists may indeed precede me.

But what am I ignorant of? Am I ignorant for recognizing that your religion is no different in essence from any other religion? It can't be that, because I know that Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahai, Mormonism, all had "Prophets" who proclaimed that their version was the only Real version. Am I ignorant of the fact that all these Prophets warned that other religions were false religions or that their teachings were not to be accepted as truth?

 

[shunyadragon]

So you are admitting that the writings of your Balulah are not to be trusted. I knew they couldn't be trusted shortly after a Bahai started quoting them to me many months go.

You knew, based on the post of one individual without knowledge of the Baha'i. I believe you have always distrusted the all theists without the posts of fallible human Baha'is, and just look for reasons to stereotype and judge the Baha'i Faith based narrow minded ignorance, and apparently all theists.

Trust does not require claims of 'Absolute Truth.'

My bias against rabid theists may indeed precede me.

Your stereotyping and condemning all theists based on your ignorance precedes you. Yes your rabid vicious condemnation of what others believe is more in common with the most radical Theists.

But what am I ignorant of? Am I ignorant for recognizing that your religion is no different in essence from any other religion? It can't be that, because I know that Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahai, Mormonism, all had "Prophets" who proclaimed that their version was the only Real version. Am I ignorant of the fact that all these Prophets warned that other religions were false religions or that their teachings were not to be accepted as truth?

Ignorant of the fact that the Baha'i scriptures are not considered 'Absolute Truth' and Revelation and understanding of scripture evolves and changes over time, and recognizes that, yes. fallible humans can misinterpret scripture.

 

[ecco]

You knew, based on the post of one individual without knowledge of the Baha'i. I believe you have always distrusted the all theists without the posts of fallible human Baha'is, and just look for reasons to stereotype and judge the Baha'i Faith based narrow minded ignorance, and apparently all theists.

"One individual without knowledge of the Bahai"?

First off, it doesn't matter who the Bahai is. I wasn't judging him, I was judging the writings of Ballulah. Do you suppose those writings take on different meaning depending on who is posting them.

Second, are you absolutely certain that my original conversations with a Bahai were not with you?

I will admit that prior to my first "conversation" with a Bahai, I was ignorant of your religion - I had never heard of it. However, it quickly became obvious that Bahai was just another Johnny-come-lately religion with nothing much to differentiate it from other religions.

Your stereotyping and condemning all theists based on your ignorance precedes you. Yes your rabid vicious condemnation of what others believe is more in common with the most radical Theists.

I guess you could consider my pointing out that your religion is pretty much the same as all other religions, "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.

I guess you could consider my pointing out that your belief that your religion is the only True religion is "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.

Ignorant of the fact that the Baha'i scriptures are not considered 'Absolute Truth' and Revelation and understanding of scripture evolves and changes over time, and recognizes that, yes. fallible humans can misinterpret scripture.

It's nice to see that you admit that things that God's Messenger, Ballulah, wrote are filled with errors. However, I do question your motives. You and other Bahai's in this forum have defended the accuracy of not only Ballulah's writings but those of Shogi Effendi as well.

So what you call "my ignorance" is perhaps better explained as my confusion caused by getting different messages from different Bahais or even the same Bhais at different times.

 

[Audie]

"One individual without knowledge of the Bahai"?

First off, it doesn't matter who the Bahai is. I wasn't judging him, I was judging the writings of Ballulah. Do you suppose those writings take on different meaning depending on who is posting them.

Second, are you absolutely certain that my original conversations with a Bahai were not with you?

I will admit that prior to my first "conversation" with a Bahai, I was ignorant of your religion - I had never heard of it. However, it quickly became obvious that Bahai was just another Johnny-come-lately religion with nothing much to differentiate it from other religions.



I guess you could consider my pointing out that your religion is pretty much the same as all other religions, "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.

I guess you could consider my pointing out that your belief that your religion is the only True religion is "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.



It's nice to see that you admit that things that God's Messenger, Ballulah, wrote are filled with errors. However, I do question your motives. You and other Bahai's in this forum have defended the accuracy of not only Ballulah's writings but those of Shogi Effendi as well.

So what you call "my ignorance" is perhaps better explained as my confusion caused by getting different messages from different Bahais or even the same Bhais at different times.

Certain religions seem especially noteworthy for
what they do to a person's brain.

 

[sojourner]

Able to 'perceive or feel' things does not equate to changing nor making reality.

All you can do based on this is argue for a degree of Free Will.

The ability to be aware of one’s existence is the essence of reality.

 

[shunyadragon]

The ability to be aware of one’s existence is the essence of reality.

No, being aware of one's existence is being aware of one's existence. Reality is the universal existence greater than the awareness of any individual.

 

[sojourner]

No, being aware of one's existence is being aware of one's existence. Reality is the universal existence greater than the awareness of any individual.

I disagree. The perception of reality requires third party agreement. If human beings weren't here, who would be self-aware, and who would corroborate it? No awareness + no perception of reality = no reality.

 

[shunyadragon]

"One individual without knowledge of the Bahai"?

First off, it doesn't matter who the Bahai is. I wasn't judging him, I was judging the writings of Ballulah. Do you suppose those writings take on different meaning depending on who is posting them.

Second, are you absolutely certain that my original conversations with a Bahai were not with you?

I will admit that prior to my first "conversation" with a Bahai, I was ignorant of your religion - I had never heard of it. However, it quickly became obvious that Bahai was just another Johnny-come-lately religion with nothing much to differentiate it from other religions.

Regardless, conversations with one or more Baha'is is not what the Baha'i Faith teaches, nor what the scriptures of the Baha'i read.


[quote\
I guess you could consider my pointing out that your religion is pretty much the same as all other religions, "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.

I guess you could consider my pointing out that your belief that your religion is the only True religion is "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts. [/quote]

This simply represents your rabid, biased, vindictive any religious shotgun approach to religions, and not reality of what the religions believe.

It's nice to see that you admit that things that God's Messenger, Ballulah, wrote are filled with errors. However, I do question your motives. You and other Bahai's in this forum have defended the accuracy of not only Ballulah's writings but those of Shogi Effendi as well.

How arrogant rabid unethical dishonest and condesending. I did not admit anything of the sort.

So what you call "my ignorance" is perhaps better explained as my confusion caused by getting different messages from different Bahais or even the same Bhais at different times.

Again, again, and again . . . getting messages (?) as the personal views of the believer does not represent the religion.

 

[shunyadragon]

I disagree. The perception of reality requires third party agreement. If human beings weren't here, who would be self-aware, and who would corroborate it? No awareness + no perception of reality = no reality.

Does the tree falling make a noise if no one is there.

It is not necessary for humans even to exist for the reality of our physical and/or our spiritual existence to exist.

What you propose is a hypothetical, anecdotal, subjective assertion.

 

[1213]

...
Would you feel that any action necessary to get this truth out to the rest of the world would be justified?

No.

 

[sojourner]

Does the tree falling make a noise if no one is there.

It is not necessary for humans even to exist for the reality of our physical and/or our spiritual existence to exist.

What you propose is a hypothetical, anecdotal, subjective assertion.

I suggest what’s anecdotal is for our existence to be reality if we don’t exist.

 

[shunyadragon]

I suggest what’s anecdotal is for our existence to be reality if we don’t exist.

I need not suggest. The objective verifiable evidence determines that our physical existence is not dependent on human existence. In fact physically humanity is a product of our physical existence.

There is absolutely no evidence that our physical existence is dependent on human existence.

Again . . . Does the tree falling make a noise if no one is there.

 

[Ponder This]

We should probably ask those who created the horrible fate of hell.

But if you believe in the horrible fate of Hell aka (The Problem of Hell), then any action is not justified, because some actions result in a horrible fate. You cannot 100% guarantee the fate of others.

 

[ecco]

I guess you could consider my pointing out that your belief that your religion is the only True religion is "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.

This simply represents your rabid, biased, vindictive any religious shotgun approach to religions, and not reality of what the religions believe.

Can you honestly deny that Christians believe Christianity is the True Religion and religions such as Islam, Hinduism, and even Bahai are False Religions?

 

[ecco]

I guess you could consider my pointing out that your religion is pretty much the same as all other religions, "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.

This simply represents your rabid, biased, vindictive any religious shotgun approach to religions, and not reality of what the religions believe.

All religions have god(s). Bahai has god().
All religions assert other religions are wrong. Bahai asserts other religions are wrong.
All religions have "Messengers". Bahai has "messengers".
All religions point to prophets making prophecies. Bahai asserts its prophet made prophecies.
All religions believe their religion is correct. Bahai asserts it is the correct religion.

That's five similarities. Now it's your turn. Show five distinct things that show that Bahai is the one and only True Religion.

 

[ecco]

Regardless, conversations with one or more Baha'is is not what the Baha'i Faith teaches, nor what the scriptures of the Baha'i read.


[quote\
I guess you could consider my pointing out that your religion is pretty much the same as all other religions, "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.

I guess you could consider my pointing out that your belief that your religion is the only True religion is "rabid vicious condemnation". I consider it pointing out indisputable facts.

This simply represents your rabid, biased, vindictive any religious shotgun approach to religions, and not reality of what the religions believe.[/QUOTE]

This must be getting to you. Slow down and try to properly use the "quote" "/quote" features.

 

[ecco]

Regardless, conversations with one or more Baha'is is not what the Baha'i Faith teaches, nor what the scriptures of the Baha'i read.

In your haste to respond, you missed this part...

"One individual without knowledge of the Bahai"?

First off, it doesn't matter who the Bahai is. I wasn't judging him, I was judging the writings of Ballulah. Do you suppose those writings take on different meaning depending on who is posting them.

In any case, there are not too many Bahai on this forum. I have never seen you correct the postings of other Bahais. Does that mean that what they posted correctly represents the Bahai religion or do you only criticize the comments of people who are not Bahai?

 

[sojourner]

I need not suggest. The objective verifiable evidence determines that our physical existence is not dependent on human existence. In fact physically humanity is a product of our physical existence.

There is absolutely no evidence that our physical existence is dependent on human existence.

Again . . . Does the tree falling make a noise if no one is there.

Huh? Our existence doesn’t depend on our existence? If we didn’t exist, our existence wouldn’t be reality!

 

[shunyadragon]

Huh? Our existence doesn’t depend on our existence? If we didn’t exist, our existence wouldn’t be reality!

The reality of our physical existence as a whole, ie everything that physically exists, is not dependent on human existence.

 

[sojourner]

The reality of our physical existence as a whole, ie everything that physically exists, is not dependent on human existence.

Are you sure? Aren’t “physical world” and “reality” different things?