The Afterlife

[WalterTrull]

No matter what we say, or the thoughts we have,
we'll all lose are spirits to meld with the Cosmos' spirit.
And we won't be aware of it, and we won't even care.

Well... maybe. I have a hunch there's more structure and progression, but who knows.

 

[Cacotopia]

ah then but what would that vessel be?

 

[`mud]

hey Cac,
What vessel....I have'd to have missed something !

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

I was just wondering, since no one has reported on what it actually is. People just say it's a place your soul goes. Is it physical? Or is it ethereal? If the latter why recently are there questions that correlate to this current life, even remotely relevant to the afterlife. If it is a destination for souls then I'm guessing isn't physical.

The only think I can imagine would be close to 'heaven' would be a virtual world where any and all desires can be realized but not physically experienced. Although, new advances in technology may get us closer to feeling what happens to us in the digital realm.

But would such a place even grant you access to those desires when restriction of self in this world is part of the requirement to even get into heaven. What would have been the purpose of denial here if you had no restriction there? And once you get there can you still get banished to hell? There are so many questions. But a whole lot of it makes no sense.

A lot of Scriptures talk about Paradise and Hell. That there should come a Judgement Day after the current Universe will die out. And after that there will be created a new one. And on Judgement Day you will be granted what you deserve. A Paradise or a Hell.

 

[Cacotopia]

A lot of Scriptures talk about Paradise and Hell. That there should come a Judgement Day after the current Universe will die out. And after that there will be created a new one. And on Judgement Day you will be granted what you deserve. A Paradise or a Hell.

you know that will happen in a 10^1000 years? if we are going to take reality into account. Or is it just the heat death of our sun which is a fair bit sooner than that, but still a few billion years from now.

Some astrophysicists say earth's got a billion years left before the sun's radiation cooks the planet into annihilation. The suns brightness increases about 10% per billion years. that 10% is enough to cause the biosphere to collapse when it's too hot for water to form.

Scientists Have Figured Out When And How Our Sun Will Die, And It's Going to Be Epic

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, I believe in the afterlife from a preponderance of evidence and a variety of different phenomena. Here's just one website that tries to summarize the Afterlife Evidence

Do you have other sites that go into this in layman's terms? I tried reading it many of times on other threads unless you can go into detail and logic how you personally came to a conclusion there is life after death.

Edit.

By definition, no one is dead. Predicting correct info about events signals a person is alive making that observation. Since that person wasn't dead during their NDE experience (hence near) it can only assume what happens in an altered state of consciousness due to the cardiac arrest.

But to be evidence that anything exist after death, that person has to die in order to report it alive -again.-

You can argue it explains we have different consciousness during our living state but no where argument for what it's like after one dies.

 

[George-ananda]

Do you have other sites that go into this in layman's terms? I tried reading it many of times on other threads unless you can go into detail and logic how you personally came to a conclusion there is life after death.

Edit.

By definition, no one is dead. Predicting correct info about events signals a person is alive making that observation. Since that person wasn't dead during their NDE experience (hence near) it can only assume what happens in an altered state of consciousness due to the cardiac arrest.

But to be evidence that anything exist after death, that person has to die in order to report it alive -again.-

You can argue it explains we have different consciousness during our living state but no where argument for what it's like after one dies.

I’ve been saying throughout this thread there is evidence beyond the NDE. For example spirits communicating through mediums is one example. These people have been dead and gone for years or decades. Did you not see the post earlier by @Trailblazer about the private killed in WW1? That’s the type of evidence I am also talking about.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I’ve been saying throughout this thread there is evidence beyond the NDE. For example spirits communicating through mediums is one example. These people have been dead and gone for years or decades. Did you not see the post earlier by @Trailblazer about the private killed in WW1? That’s the type of evidence I am also talking about.

No. I asked an isolated question that I would have liked to look into further if our conversations werent put to a hault. Ive experienced spirits before; and, they are from my perception, my consciousness. Its not external but internal. People share their experiences not facts. Something true to them. There is no criteria for OBEs that makes one real and another not. No need for mystics. Its just life.

How does knowing something a person cannot possibily know proof of the afterlife?

It can be prove we have altered state of consciousness, but we are still alive. We arent decomposing. Our brains work (hence why we can express our experiences), our minds work (we can interpret them say as a religious connection), and we can experience them in our body (say love we feel from the white light).

We cant do this without these connections. When the person is clinically dead, by what means can he see life after death when his brain still picks up awareness just as if he were alive?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

remember when cell phones came out? If someone told you what a phone could do today, back then, you would blow em off like you are blowing of the possibility of limited immortality. Y ou would call em a techno cultist conspiracy theorist.

Yeah, because the mind and consciousness is totally on the same level as a phone.

 

[George-ananda]

No. I asked an isolated question that I would have liked to look into further if our conversations werent put to a hault. Ive experienced spirits before; and, they are from my perception, my consciousness. Its not external but internal. People share their experiences not facts. Something true to them. There is no criteria for OBEs that makes one real and another not. No need for mystics. Its just life.

How does knowing something a person cannot possibily know proof of the afterlife?

It can be prove we have altered state of consciousness, but we are still alive. We arent decomposing. Our brains work (hence why we can express our experiences), our minds work (we can interpret them say as a religious connection), and we can experience them in our body (say love we feel from the white light).

We cant do this without these connections. When the person is clinically dead, by what means can he see life after death when his brain still picks up awareness just as if he were alive?

It is impossible to say that the NDE proves life after death. However the fact that people can view things from an out of body perspective and report verifiable information during a time when no higher brain functioning was occurring is just strongly suggestive that consciousness is not what materialist science thinks it is and supports the idea that consciousness is not always dependent on a working brain. In fact it is evidence (not proof) of the teachings of esoteric wisdom traditions that say we have a physical body and subtle body that can separate.

Spirit communication years after death is even much stronger evidence that consciousness can exist without a physical brain.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is impossible to say that the NDE proves life after death. However the fact that people can view things from an out of body perspective and report verifiable information during a time when no higher brain functioning was occurring is just strongly suggestive that consciousness is not what materialist science thinks it is and supports the idea that consciousness is not always dependent on a working brain. In fact it is evidence (not proof) of the teachings of esoteric wisdom traditions that say we have a physical body and subtle body that can separate.

Spirit communication years after death is even much stronger evidence that consciousness can exist without a physical brain.

Since people are aware of what happens to them during OBEs etc, there is a level of brain/conscousness connection. Have you heard of the thin lining that connects a person to his body when experiencing OBEs? The Silver Cord and the Near-Death Experience I didnt read over this, but I remember in bed when I had my OBE (among other times when I wasnt in bed, if you like) there is a sense that you are still connected with your body. Its like you have to force yourself to stay present so the cord wont be broken. In dreams, things are disorted and lucid dreams you know youre dreaming.

But the difference is, I dont see a spiritual, godly, or religious connection to these experiences. I also see them as part of life, this life, regardless if we are semi aware and can detect whats happening or clinically dead but our brains still pick up things. My friend has cogenital heart disease and she had heart surgery. She explained correctly the nature of her surgery and the cotton swab stuck in her chest but she couldnt talk to tell them it was stuck.

I cant invalidate her experience anymore than the people on the websites you gave me because in both cases, these people are alive. Maybe altered state of consciousness but definitely not death. My friend felt it was a sign of god among other experiences we have shared.

Is there evidence that you have experienced personally to confirm what you read and observe is true?

Materalistic science is part of life just as the spiritual. They arent separate. No duality or dichotomy in spirituality; all are one.

What is consciousness and the nature of it apart from the brain and minds rudementary interpretation of its definition? Is this something you experienced in your own words or outside experience only?

Anyone can take personal other peoples experiences. Abrahamics do it all the time. I cant interview the OBE people and Paul, etc. How did you make the connection? and why do you know it is true regardless if it cant or can be explained?

That, and what is wrong with materialistic science?

 

[George-ananda]

That, and what is wrong with materialistic science?

Materialist science is great. But there is a problem when people insist it is the end-all of knowledge and deny phenomena that doesn't fit in the materialist paradigm.

Esoteric wisdom traditions posit realms/dimensions of reality beyond our known physical. I think these traditions have better explanatory models for discussing so-called paranormal phenomena. People overly attached to materialist science are too interested in denying and dismissing the evidence suggestive of reality beyond our physical senses and physical instruments.

 

[Dell]

This is a subject I find to be quite fascinating. I was brought up to believe that there was no such thing as an afterlife, but rather that God would resurrect those who were faithful into a New System.

I continued to believe this even after leaving that religion, but then various things occurred in my life with regard to losing family members and friends that caused me to begin to rethink what I had been taught. I'm now trying to look further into some of these ideas to try to fit all the pieces together.

There are a lot of problems with the resurrection:
1. What body will we have? Will it be recognizable to our previous identity? Infant dies will it have an resurrected infant body or will old lady have an old lady body or a 30ish body she once had..?
2. What memories will we have? Infants will have no memory while old people will have memories of all their sins and lost loved ones? If we dont carry all our memories dont we loose our identity.
3. If we are resurrected out of a frame of time, which frame of time will it be? If we are resurrected out of a frame of time will we be guilty of sins committed in future frames of time, i.e. would a 12yr old boy Adolf Hitler be responsible for what the 50yr old version of him did?

 

[Cacotopia]

Yeah, because the mind and consciousness is totally on the same level as a phone.

it's a similar comparison. you saying something is impossible when our own technology advances at an exponential rate.

You have no clue what the human race will be tapped into in half a century.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

it's a similar comparison. you saying something is impossible when our own technology advances at an exponential rate.

You have no clue what the human race will be tapped into in half a century.

"Advancing at an exponential rate"? Where? This year's crop of smart phones? We can't even go another planet, but you think we're going to invent some form of physical immortality in the next 50 years or so? As I said, we don't really know how the brain works, or even how to really define the mind or consciousness, let alone how those work. We're not any closer to solving the hard problem of consciousness then we were a century ago. So it's still very much science fiction. On top of this, we have overpopulation and disaster from climate change looming on the horizon. The last thing we need is people living for centuries. It would cause way too ethical, social, legal and philosophical issues. We're better off focusing on actual issues than pursuing fantasy **** because some people are terrified to die. Funds are much more urgently needed in other areas.

Interesting article: Has progress in science and technology come to a halt? | Aeon Essays

 

[Cacotopia]

If only we could ditch all the scientific illiterate folks. Do what we Americans did to the native americans. Find the most inhospitable land, put a big wall around it. And excommunicate em there. Surround the wall with a giant mine field and flame thrower towers too. Just to discourage them from leaving. And we just air drop the basic necessities down there and then the world moves on without them dragging us all down. They will have their own over population problem in their little walled in psuedoscience paradise.

Sorry Australia, you are a continent that might be big enough to house em all. And anyone that doesn't want to try to get off this rock gets kicked out of the planetary society. The goal is to leave, and colonize other worlds before we deplete our natural resources before we even figure out how to get out of the gravity well without wasting too much fuel. I say we get a space elevator. And go and find a big enough asteroid to use it as and anchor. maybe even one with the minerals and metals we need to maintain the space elevator.

But we first have to commit a few atrocities and genocides as "least invasive and least violently as possible" Maybe a bio weapon of some sort that doesn't kill but renders 50% of the population affected infertile. Cluster all the great minds in the world in bunkers and "run a test." I don't know but we have been too many for too long, and we are too self absorbed with our own lives and what's right in front of us to see deep into the future, and how we are grinding that gear that ends in another mass extinction.

Religious argument is a complete waste of time. No one can prove jack, and all those that are still trying I feel are trying in vain. Sadly though it still needs to be fought against as the religious nutjobs out there are trying to include their bogus beliefs into politics, and education and breeding more illiterate future inmates on my wished for dystopian prison colony. Humanity is sliced and diced up into so many different groups that I think it would be damn near impossible to pull enough of them together in order to get off this slowly dying rock.

 

[Cacotopia]

I was saying great minds that contribute to the further technological and medical advancement get the keys to longevity. no body else, period. Engineers, biochemists, computer programmers, doctors, chemists, biologists, the entire scientific community that agrees to the singular goal of achieving a type 1 civilization. they get long life to push that one agenda. Screw the rest, they are fodder for the long lifed ones to experiment on.

 

[viole]

I personally don't agree on the last part of that statement 'since no one has reported on what it actually is'.

I believe I have a reasonably clear picture of the afterlife from my objective consideration of Near Death Experiences, spirit communications and those with gifted psychic input.

I think the afterlife is part of a continuous growing experience that includes reincarnation after a stay on the higher (astral and mental) planes.

Near death is different from death. You make the assumption that near death is close to death. A sort of continuous flow.

It is not. The word “near” introduce a discontinuity.

For instance, I also have experience as a near lottery winner. No money. Ergo, according to your logic, winning the lottery also gives you no money, or very little, if near was close to the real thing.

See, how the word “near” introduce discontinuity in the line of reasoning?

Near death people are alive people, in the same way being near winning the lottery means losing the lottery. Ergo, it is lgically untenable that they can provide any witness of something that they did not experience. And even if they experienced cerebral death, whaever that means, you have no way whatsoever to prove that what they experienced happened exactly at the time when they were flatlining.

Unless they carried a spiritual watch, synchronized with the clock of the hospital, in the hereafter., of course.Lol.


Ciao

- viole

 

[George-ananda]

Near death is different from death. You make the assumption that near death is close to death. A sort of continuous flow.

It is not. The word “near” introduce a discontinuity.

For instance, I also have experience as a near lottery winner. No money. Ergo, according to your logic, winning the lottery also gives you no money, or very little, if near was close to the real thing.

See, how the word “near” introduce discontinuity in the line of reasoning?

Near death people are alive people, in the same way being near winning the lottery means losing the lottery. Ergo, it is lgically untenable that they can provide any witness of something that they did not experience. And even if they experienced cerebral death, whaever that means, you have no way whatsoever to prove that what they experienced happened exactly at the time when they were flatlining.

Unless they carried a spiritual watch, synchronized with the clock of the hospital, in the hereafter., of course.Lol.

I am fully aware of and understand the difference between 'near death' and 'death'. The Near Death Experience does strongly suggest consciousness can separate from brain activity (which would be the materialist's first objection to belief in an afterlife). The veridical experiences tell me something real and not explainable under the materialist paradigm is indeed occurring.

Also, if you re-read my comment I get into spirit communication (that includes those dead for years) and the input of those claiming gifted psychic input into the non-physical around us. Neither of these two things even involve the issue of 'near death' versus 'final death' controversy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If only we could ditch all the scientific illiterate folks. Do what we Americans did to the native americans. Find the most inhospitable land, put a big wall around it. And excommunicate em there. Surround the wall with a giant mine field and flame thrower towers too. Just to discourage them from leaving. And we just air drop the basic necessities down there and then the world moves on without them dragging us all down. They will have their own over population problem in their little walled in psuedoscience paradise.

Sorry Australia, you are a continent that might be big enough to house em all. And anyone that doesn't want to try to get off this rock gets kicked out of the planetary society. The goal is to leave, and colonize other worlds before we deplete our natural resources before we even figure out how to get out of the gravity well without wasting too much fuel. I say we get a space elevator. And go and find a big enough asteroid to use it as and anchor. maybe even one with the minerals and metals we need to maintain the space elevator.

But we first have to commit a few atrocities and genocides as "least invasive and least violently as possible" Maybe a bio weapon of some sort that doesn't kill but renders 50% of the population affected infertile. Cluster all the great minds in the world in bunkers and "run a test." I don't know but we have been too many for too long, and we are too self absorbed with our own lives and what's right in front of us to see deep into the future, and how we are grinding that gear that ends in another mass extinction.

Religious argument is a complete waste of time. No one can prove jack, and all those that are still trying I feel are trying in vain. Sadly though it still needs to be fought against as the religious nutjobs out there are trying to include their bogus beliefs into politics, and education and breeding more illiterate future inmates on my wished for dystopian prison colony. Humanity is sliced and diced up into so many different groups that I think it would be damn near impossible to pull enough of them together in order to get off this slowly dying rock.

I was saying great minds that contribute to the further technological and medical advancement get the keys to longevity. no body else, period. Engineers, biochemists, computer programmers, doctors, chemists, biologists, the entire scientific community that agrees to the singular goal of achieving a type 1 civilization. they get long life to push that one agenda. Screw the rest, they are fodder for the long lifed ones to experiment on.

You're doing the whole nihilistic, anti-theist, genocidal, arrogant, white lab coat bootlicking, apocalyptic nutter schtick very well. Let us know when you decide to drop the edgelord act and come back to reality.