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The alcohol problem

stvdv

Veteran Member
Here is your add on. "... Life's Goal is reached By both Atheists & Theists" Now compare it to what you wrote: God addiction is the best addiction, when trying to improve oneself.
Do you see a problem between these 2 opinions?

So even if it is all opinion, which is the correct opinion?
I don't see Atheism as an addiction
Hence
Both of my opinions are unrelated


AND

Still both are my opinions, even if inconsistent in your eyes. Which of course easily happens when talking about belief, as belief for me is a constant evolving myself, and adjusting my beliefs.

Especially about God, I could feel like Atheist (lack of belief) in the evening and Theist in the morning. After all God is a word to describe that what I can't describe

Note: More than obvious should be that when I say "God addiction is the best addiction when trying to improve oneself" applies only to those who believe in God (considering my respectful view towards Atheists, also in my signature).

And I did not specify God, so I left it to each their own imagination. Including those who see Sun as God, or nature, or being a good human as their goal (humanism), which I get the feeling Atheists have too
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I am going to directly refer to two movie stars in the Indian world. One is called Kamal Hassan, and the other is called Rajini Kanth. Well, both are known to be the most prominent stars in the industry that produces more movies than Hollywood can think of.

As far as I know these two guys are the biggest and richest stars in the industry, unknown to the western world largely. Stark difference though.

Kamal Hassan is known to be a bit of a perv. Multiple girl friends, super actor, pretty rude to those who seek him trying to take a picture with him. But Rajini dude is a drunkard, drinks morning, day and night, but when someone abruptly arrives at his gate wanting a picture with him. he is famous to have invited them home, given them some refreshments, let them take all the pictures they wish, signatures if necessary and being a humble human being.

One is a drunkard, the other doesnt drink. But the drunkard is a great human being while the other is known to be not.

What's with this drinking thing? Could you shed some light?

Alcohol makes it harder to maintain a social mask; persona. This loss of the mask often causes the actual person, who is behind the mask, to suddenly appear. This is why alcohol is often part of dating. It helps everyone relax and get beyond the pretense, so they can be themselves.

People often have to pretend, to spare feelings, act cool or important, act interested or even act supportive. The alcohol sort of degrades the effectiveness of the pretense, so people tend to do and say what is really on their mind. This can cause problems, if one has responsibilities, that do not agree with them. They can lose their ability to pretend and keep their nose to the grind stone for everyone else.

The drunkard actor, could pretend and become another person, but he may drink to be true to his self, which is a fun loving guy. Actors pretend for a living and sometime need to be true. The other more sober actor may be living a life that is more of a facade for the tabloids; his reputation as the bad boy. Under that mask may be another person, that it is hidden from public view. A few drinks could make that other person appear. But too much drinking would make it harder to pretend for the tabloids and maybe even his job.

I knew a person who was very religious and a very nice guy. We talked about Jesus and alcohol and the modern alcohol taboo. He told me he was a reformed alcoholic. Alcohol made him angry and mean, which is why he knew he needed to stop and vowed never to drink again. It was better for everyone around him, for him to stay sober, so he could put on a nice face, that could be helpful to others.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I am going to directly refer to two movie stars in the Indian world. One is called Kamal Hassan, and the other is called Rajini Kanth. Well, both are known to be the most prominent stars in the industry that produces more movies than Hollywood can think of.

As far as I know these two guys are the biggest and richest stars in the industry, unknown to the western world largely. Stark difference though.

Kamal Hassan is known to be a bit of a perv. Multiple girl friends, super actor, pretty rude to those who seek him trying to take a picture with him. But Rajini dude is a drunkard, drinks morning, day and night, but when someone abruptly arrives at his gate wanting a picture with him. he is famous to have invited them home, given them some refreshments, let them take all the pictures they wish, signatures if necessary and being a humble human being.

One is a drunkard, the other doesnt drink. But the drunkard is a great human being while the other is known to be not.

What's with this drinking thing? Could you shed some light?
Alcohol merely loosens inhibitions. It doesn’t actually change a person.

I grew up around teachers and teachers drink like fish. Doctors drink like fish. Nurses drink like fish. Are all those folks bad because they can likely drink a “normie” under the table?
Give me a break.
Alcohol and drugs elicit a certain chemical reaction from the brain. Usually a positive one. Sometimes a person (especially those with addictive tendencies) get hooked on such a reaction and seek it out more often than not.
Some people are just people prone to addictive behaviours. That’s not a moral failing, geez
Wtf mate?
That’s like saying a person addicted to sugar (which is a legitimate phenomenon) is a bad person. Come on now
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Alcohol makes it harder to maintain a social mask; persona. This loss of the mask often causes the actual person, who is behind the mask, to suddenly appear. This is why alcohol is often part of dating. It helps everyone relax and get beyond the pretense, so they can be themselves.

That's a great insight Wellwisher. Just that, this being part of dating thing is probably only related to your geography. Not mine. Me or my society cannot relate to that,

People often have to pretend, to spare feelings, act cool or important, act interested or even act supportive. The alcohol sort of degrades the effectiveness of the pretense, so people tend to do and say what is really on their mind. This can cause problems, if one has responsibilities, that do not agree with them. They can lose their ability to pretend and keep their nose to the grind stone for everyone else.

The drunkard actor, could pretend and become another person, but he may drink to be true to his self, which is a fun loving guy. Actors pretend for a living and sometime need to be true. The other more sober actor may be living a life that is more of a facade for the tabloids; his reputation as the bad boy. Under that mask may be another person, that it is hidden from public view. A few drinks could make that other person appear. But too much drinking would make it harder to pretend for the tabloids and maybe even his job.

I knew a person who was very religious and a very nice guy. We talked about Jesus and alcohol and the modern alcohol taboo. He told me he was a reformed alcoholic. Alcohol made him angry and mean, which is why he knew he needed to stop and vowed never to drink again. It was better for everyone around him, for him to stay sober, so he could put on a nice face, that could be helpful to others.

I really appreciate your post WW. Truly insightful. Thank you so much.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Alcohol merely loosens inhibitions. It doesn’t actually change a person.

I grew up around teachers and teachers drink like fish. Doctors drink like fish. Nurses drink like fish. Are all those folks bad because they can likely drink a “normie” under the table?
Give me a break.
Alcohol and drugs elicit a certain chemical reaction from the brain. Usually a positive one. Sometimes a person (especially those with addictive tendencies) get hooked on such a reaction and seek it out more often than not.
Some people are just people prone to addictive behaviours. That’s not a moral failing, geez
Wtf mate?
That’s like saying a person addicted to sugar (which is a legitimate phenomenon) is a bad person. Come on now

Nice.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I am going to directly refer to two movie stars in the Indian world. One is called Kamal Hassan, and the other is called Rajini Kanth. Well, both are known to be the most prominent stars in the industry that produces more movies than Hollywood can think of.

As far as I know these two guys are the biggest and richest stars in the industry, unknown to the western world largely. Stark difference though.

Kamal Hassan is known to be a bit of a perv. Multiple girl friends, super actor, pretty rude to those who seek him trying to take a picture with him. But Rajini dude is a drunkard, drinks morning, day and night, but when someone abruptly arrives at his gate wanting a picture with him. he is famous to have invited them home, given them some refreshments, let them take all the pictures they wish, signatures if necessary and being a humble human being.

One is a drunkard, the other doesnt drink. But the drunkard is a great human being while the other is known to be not.

What's with this drinking thing? Could you shed some light?
Alcoholics drink becuse alcohol is their "solution" to their real problem which is an allergic reaction to "sobriety".

Alcohol is not the problem with alcoholics, if it was then when they stop drinking their problems would go away. Some problems go away if they stop drinking, but their real problems come back with a vengeance! Anxiety, insecurities, fears, unpleasant memories, loneliness, depression etc.

Alcoholics have an unnatural reaction alcohol, it changes their perception of reality. They become someone else when they drink.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Good people can still have flaws and vices, because they're human. A douche bag can do their jumping jacks and eat their vegetables but at the end of the day they're still a douche bag.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I am going to directly refer to two movie stars in the Indian world. One is called Kamal Hassan, and the other is called Rajini Kanth. Well, both are known to be the most prominent stars in the industry that produces more movies than Hollywood can think of.

As far as I know these two guys are the biggest and richest stars in the industry, unknown to the western world largely. Stark difference though.

Kamal Hassan is known to be a bit of a perv. Multiple girl friends, super actor, pretty rude to those who seek him trying to take a picture with him. But Rajini dude is a drunkard, drinks morning, day and night, but when someone abruptly arrives at his gate wanting a picture with him. he is famous to have invited them home, given them some refreshments, let them take all the pictures they wish, signatures if necessary and being a humble human being.

One is a drunkard, the other doesnt drink. But the drunkard is a great human being while the other is known to be not.

What's with this drinking thing? Could you shed some light?

Drinking lowers inhibitions, so usually drunks are immoral. The natural character of the individual is brought out when people are drunk. Sometimes, people of good character don't do bad things when drunk. Sometimes we get to see the real person when they are drunk (perhaps they are womanizers, and we can see what they are like when their inhibitions are down).

Often poker players play better when drunk because they don't care as much about losing money, and they are riskier (so the bluffs work). Intoxication also masks poker tells.

President W. Bush had a horrible problem with alcoholism, and said that Reverend Billy Graham helped him kick the alcohol habit (and implied hard narcotics habits). It is said that the war in Iraq was started when Rumsfeld, Cheney, and W. Bush were roaring drunk. I glad that W. Bush didn't try to drink Rumsfeld (his name contains rum). A 47 acre mushroom was discovered in Michigan. I'm glad that W. Bush didn't read about it, or he would have tried to smoke it. Just how moral was the president when he was drunk?

Theists say that alcoholism is about the sin of gluttony. But, once drunk, all of the other sins might also come out.

AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) is a group for people who want to quit drinking. AAA is a car insurance company (maybe for people who drive and drink a lot (not just two A's, but three of them)).

Recidivism is high among drunks and drug addicts.

Chess is addicting, and, since it won't kill anyone (unless you brag about your wins), you will live a long time, so the addiction is perhaps worse than alcoholism, which will usually kill you before your time.

Haley Osment Jr. was famous for his "I see dead people" catch phrase. But, he drove an old station wagon and drank...so that explains seeing dead people. Often drunks don't realize when they are unable to drive. Some complain that the road moves or trees jump out in front of them. Hmm...the tree's fault.

Drunks, famously, fail to admit that they are alcoholics. This is why AA requires them to state their names to the group and admit, in front of everyone, that they have an alcohol problem.

You know that you've got problems when you bet your gambler's anonymous group that you could quit gambling before they do (especially when you set up a casino with them). You've also got problems if you propose a toast for being sober at AA meetings.

Drunks tend to lose their common sense, and sense of reality. For example, someone glued their tables and chairs to the ceiling, so they spent all of their time trying to sit on one of those upsidedown chairs.

Drunks try to minimize their problem, by saying that they will just get a tiny nip, and nurse it (drink it slowly) for hours. But when asked what they drank they will say "oh, just a few shot glasses"...."how many"...."about 47 of them."

They tend to blame others for their problems. "The brakes were not fixed right and the road was wobbling." Mechanics hate this blame game because they lose customers who think that they really don't know how to fix things right.

Drinkers come up with any excuse to drink (Canadian ground hog day?....cheers). A butterfly flew by...cheers. (devious butterflies).

Drunks insist on driving, and designated drivers usually have to force them not to drive.

Drunks get confused and get things backwards. They might think that the ossifer gave them an IUD (Influencing Under Drivance)(and more tickets when they put it where they thought it should go).

They would be comical if not for the harsh reality of traffic deaths and fights. In bar fights, they come self-anesthetized. They might save a lot of money getting a tooth knocked out (and dentists take more time).
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I don't see Atheism as an addiction
Hence
Both of my opinions are unrelated


AND

Still both are my opinions, even if inconsistent in your eyes. Which of course easily happens when talking about belief, as belief for me is a constant evolving myself, and adjusting my beliefs.

Especially about God, I could feel like Atheist (lack of belief) in the evening and Theist in the morning. After all God is a word to describe that what I can't describe

Note: More than obvious should be that when I say "God addiction is the best addiction when trying to improve oneself" applies only to those who believe in God (considering my respectful view towards Atheists, also in my signature).

And I did not specify God, so I left it to each their own imagination. Including those who see Sun as God, or nature, or being a good human as their goal (humanism), which I get the feeling Atheists have too

The excesses of the human (too much sun) might be blamed on the sun God. That blame might empower the God, at least in the human's mind.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Alcoholics have an unnatural reaction alcohol, it changes their perception of reality. They become someone else when they drink.
Which provides evidence that the soul is physical.

Ciao

- viole
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Alcohol makes it harder to maintain a social mask; persona. This loss of the mask often causes the actual person, who is behind the mask, to suddenly appear. This is why alcohol is often part of dating. It helps everyone relax and get beyond the pretense, so they can be themselves.

People often have to pretend, to spare feelings, act cool or important, act interested or even act supportive. The alcohol sort of degrades the effectiveness of the pretense, so people tend to do and say what is really on their mind. This can cause problems, if one has responsibilities, that do not agree with them. They can lose their ability to pretend and keep their nose to the grind stone for everyone else.

The drunkard actor, could pretend and become another person, but he may drink to be true to his self, which is a fun loving guy. Actors pretend for a living and sometime need to be true. The other more sober actor may be living a life that is more of a facade for the tabloids; his reputation as the bad boy. Under that mask may be another person, that it is hidden from public view. A few drinks could make that other person appear. But too much drinking would make it harder to pretend for the tabloids and maybe even his job.

I knew a person who was very religious and a very nice guy. We talked about Jesus and alcohol and the modern alcohol taboo. He told me he was a reformed alcoholic. Alcohol made him angry and mean, which is why he knew he needed to stop and vowed never to drink again. It was better for everyone around him, for him to stay sober, so he could put on a nice face, that could be helpful to others.

I think that it is possible that the real person is the sober one. Some people become monsters (hit their wives, kick their dogs) only when drunk. Their self-control usually prevents them from being monsters, and drinking releases that self-control.

Alcohol is also used for dating to get women to do things that they ordinarily would not. Date rape drugs are even more effective.

Dating a drunk might lead to marriage, and that might lead to financial loss (accidents, cost of booze, loss of work, etc). Marriages are on shaky ground if alcohol is involved. Once marriages break up, kids are divided among the parents, and homes are torn asunder. It is a tragedy that affects the drunk and those around him/her.
 

Bathos Logos

Active Member
What's with this drinking thing? Could you shed some light?
Purely anecdotes. I have heard from countless others (and actually have firsthand experience with members of my family who are alcoholics) and it would seem that more often, alcoholics are not the type of drunks who become happy-go-lucky. Not saying that there aren't some, like perhaps this Rajini fellow - but in general, a person who is an alcoholic is trying to bury something - something that doesn't make them happy. And so, when those feelings get let out, due to the barrier on inhibitions that is lost when drinking heavily, then their unhappiness is at the fore. I don't know that I have met an alcoholic who becomes a gentler or more mellow version of themselves. Some casual drinkers, yes - but zero alcoholics. And I have met/interacted-with/heard-tell-of/am-related-with a fair number.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Alcoholics drink becuse alcohol is their "solution" to their real problem which is an allergic reaction to "sobriety".

Alcohol is not the problem with alcoholics, if it was then when they stop drinking their problems would go away. Some problems go away if they stop drinking, but their real problems come back with a vengeance! Anxiety, insecurities, fears, unpleasant memories, loneliness, depression etc.

Alcoholics have an unnatural reaction alcohol, it changes their perception of reality. They become someone else when they drink.

I didn't know that. Thanks colter.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
That's not the question brother. There is a known drunkard who is a great human being, and there is a known teetotaller who is a dirty, bull****ting, perverse human being.
To me, this involves attitudes and has nothing to do with alcohol. Rudeness does not come to me even when I am stoned. If Rajnikanth was not a drunkard, even then he would have been a good person. He struggled in his life. Kamal Haasan was a child artist in the beginning, perhaps pampered since then. That made him what he is, as you say a 'prude'. I do not like South Indian films, used to like Bollywood films when I was young.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
To me, this involves attitudes and has nothing to do with alcohol. Rudeness does not come to me even when I am stoned. If Rajnikanth was not a drunkard, even then he would have been a good person. He struggled in his life. Kamal Haasan was a child artist in the beginning, perhaps pampered since then. That made him what he is, as you say a 'prude'. I do not like South Indian films, used to like Bollywood films when I was young.

You would know better about these people than me.

I know one guy who loved these two actors. He traveled to India with his family and visited both of them. He went to Kamal Hassans home. Kamal came to his balcony, and asked what they wanted. They said they just came to see him because he was the best actor in the world. He told them "so you have seen me. now get out". ;)

But they went to see Rajini next. This man has invited them in, given them all kinds of food and tea, introduced his daughter them and had a blast of a time for a little while. But even they knew he was drunk, and was drinking throughout.

But you are right. Attitudes have nothing to with alcohol. It's just that drunkards and drinkers are judged by everyone. Sometimes I feel this judgment pushes them further.

But I am no expert. Just getting some insight.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
That's not the question brother. There is a known drunkard who is a great human being, and there is a known teetotaller who is a dirty, bull****ting, perverse human being.

Whats the religious, or research based, theological or sociological verdict on the drinking problem considering both of these characters?

I'm not going to judge them or judge between them. They have issues as do all of us humans. That's my religious and theological view which is supported by the Quran, Bible, Torah and other scriptures.

As far as addiction to drugs of all sorts go, there's a plethora of research studies about the genetic as well as environmental components that lead to drug addiction of all kinds.
 
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