• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Alignment of the Christian God

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I doubt animals can be considered evil.
The Bible has twisted our head around so much, it is hard to see what is going on.... If we take evil, as being the opposite of live.... When a swan for instance devours a fish, do the other fish think that swan is majestic? Or when a dog walks up to a swan, bends its head to bite the neck, and by design, as it straightens, snaps its neck in one clean go, do the other swans think that dogs are good?

We're in a very cruel world, where things are not as they seem, and as you study you see everything gets corrupted in someway....So a God of this world, would have some of the qualities ascribed to YHVH.... Which if mispronounced is Lord (H3050) of Mischief (H1943).

Is there a God higher than that though, who doesn't have them qualities, yes clearly so...Read Near Death Experience accounts, which don't have any of the qualities ascribed to YHVH of anger, jealousy, wrathfulness, etc...Instead having unconditional love, wisdom, mercifulness, compassion.

So the question is which God was Yeshua following, as he told the Jews, they weren't following the right one. :innocent:

Though don't get me wrong, from what is described within the Bible, from the snare set by YHVH on the nations, would agree partially with what someone else just put, YHVH is legally trying to create righteousness...

On just thinking about it tho, it is almost like YHVH is Hades, were as Zeus has been ignored. :oops:
 

Thana

Lady
Arrogant are we?

You assume that I have not read the bible becuase I do not agree with your inteperation that you choose to believe in so you do not have to sacrifice much for your religion.

It was simply stating that the Israelites where the ones engine the compact becuase they where the nation that followed him.

If he only requires the Jewish people to follow rose rules than it does have to do with race.

Either people who follow your deity have to follow the old testament, in which case you should follow old testament law, or only a specific ethnic group has to follow the old testament laws in which case it provides even more evidance of your deity's racism.

Interpretation? That's pushing it.
All my life I've yet to meet a single Christian who actually followed the Old law, Nor have I even heard of a denomination that does it. Not even the Jehovah's Witnesses do it so that should tell you how much weight your 'interpretation' has.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Arrogant are we?

You assume that I have not read the bible becuase I do not agree with your inteperation that you choose to believe in so you do not have to sacrifice much for your religion.

It was simply stating that the Israelites where the ones engine the compact becuase they where the nation that followed him.

If he only requires the Jewish people to follow rose rules than it does have to do with race.

Either people who follow your deity have to follow the old testament, in which case you should follow old testament law, or only a specific ethnic group has to follow the old testament laws in which case it provides even more evidance of your deity's racism.

I have to agree with Thana on this. The Mosaic Law (which I believe this references) was contextual to Israelite society. Early Christians still followed these laws because most early Christians were Jewish converts with the influence of bigger churches like the Roman Church only growing later on and turning Christianity away from its Jewish roots.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Interpretation? That's pushing it.
All my life I've yet to meet a single Christian who actually followed the Old law, Nor have I even heard of a denomination that does it. Not even the Jehovah's Witnesses do it so that should tell you how much weight your 'interpretation' has.

Indeed. The only time Christians seem happy to quote the Pentateuch is when they're condemning something like gay marriage or maybe even tattoos. Other than that they're usually happy to ignore it and wear clothes of mixed fibres.
 

Aset's Flames

Viperine Asetian
Interpretation? That's pushing it.
All my life I've yet to meet a single Christian who actually followed the Old law, Nor have I even heard of a denomination that does it. Not even the Jehovah's Witnesses do it so that should tell you how much weight your 'interpretation' has.

They are called Messianic Jews.

Also most Christians do not give a second thought to their religion and why they do it so they probably do not possess a viewpoint on that subject.
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
On just thinking about it tho, it is almost like YHVH is Hades, were as Zeus has been ignored. :oops:

That analogy only fits with your point if we're talking Disney's Hercules. Zeus is not all-good and Hades is not shown as evil at all. Zeus is actually the most YHVH-like god of his pantheon.
 

Aset's Flames

Viperine Asetian
Lol....



I see.
You should have said that first thing so I wouldn't have bothered trying to argue with your prejudice.

It is not Christianity's innate fault that this is the case, it is simply the case becuase it happens to be the majority religion.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Zeus is actually the most YHVH-like god of his pantheon.
El is more like Zeus, as he is head of the council; with his brother Hades (YHVH) being an opposite.
Zeus is not all-good and Hades is not shown as evil at all.
Didn't think they were, it was more based on this:
  • Yah (H3050) Hovah (H1943) = Lord of Mischief.
  • Yeshua said, that God was the God of the living, not of the dead, therefore the Jews were in error....Zeus is God of the living, Hades is God of the dead.
  • Hades tries to create righteousness by legal punishment, and has the qualities ascribed to YHVH.
  • Within this world, there are many of the things assigned to exist within Hades...Thus if YHVH is God of this world, then we're in Hades. :eek:
  • Hades employed demons to torture people, like in Job.
  • ....
 

Rapha

Active Member
In Dungeons and Dragons, there's a list of fictional Gods and Goddesses with their alignment to the side (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful, Neutral). I would have to say that Abraham's God is possibly Lawful Neutral at best. Some people actually state that he is evil. Some say he's actually Satan, deceiving the Christians. There's a lot of speculation going on because of these thoughts.
God Presence beyond Universe = True Neutral

Fallen angel Enki (Lucifer) CE Orcus
Fallen angel Enlil (Yahweh) CE
Both are playing the same sick game with humans
 

Aset's Flames

Viperine Asetian
God Presence beyond Universe = True Neutral

Fallen angel Enki (Lucifer) CE Orcus
Fallen angel Enlil (Yahweh) CE
Both are playing the same sick game with humans

From my perspective the Christian blend of Lucifer, The Serpent, and the Satans would be Chaotic Evil.

And the deity they rebelled against is Lawful Evil.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
The deity of the Hebrew Bible appears to be a completely different deity from the Christian one. The Jesus figure (whom I personally think did not historically exist, but that's another topic), or the mythology surrounding him (which is all we have), is really a result of syncretism. He appears to be more like a Hellenic Mystery school teacher/hero like Orpheus in the Orphic Mysteries or other religious hero/sage figures like the Buddha. His teachings and life are actually esoteric, full of symbolism and allegory. I personally think that the Gnostic Christians had it correct and you had to be initiated into a sort of religious order to learn the true meaning of the symbolism. It really is not suitable as a popular religion for the masses. The teachings of Jesus are really irreconcilable with the angry, violent, tribal Yahweh of the Jews and the Heavenly Father he "spoke" of is very different.The ethics and worldview of Christ are more similar to Jainism and Buddhism than with Judaism, being that it encourages asceticism, rejection of this world, non-violence and universalism (as opposed to Jewish tribalism and Judaism's focus on the here and now).

Anyway, I think that the Christ figure is a product of the stew of syncretism that was prevalent in the Hellenic world - pulling from the messiah/savior current which is popular around the world, Hellenic philosophy and Mystery schools and Eastern religious thought. Once Christianity became a dogmatic religion imposed on the masses and entwined with worldly power, it just became a mess and the truth about it was intentionally hidden from the public.
 
Last edited:

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Jesus' Yahweh is willing to do the apocalyptic thing without remorse. After the flood, Yahweh regretted drowning everyone and promised not to do it again.
 

Rapha

Active Member
From my perspective the Christian blend of Lucifer, The Serpent, and the Satans would be Chaotic Evil.

And the deity they rebelled against is Lawful Evil.
i reckon HaSatan (Azazel, Cronus) is actually the hero here (Lawful Good).

What did Azazel teach humans ? Weapon and armour smithing for war. In other words, he taught humans how to fight back the evil aliens, the giants for freedom against slavery.

Look at Roswell; when did the evil aliens turn up ? Answer, when humans had WMD's (nukes) to destroy the evil slave driver Annunaki race.

Look at how the Book of Enoch has made the fallen Watchers look evil when in actual fact they taught mankind technology and constructed Atlantis.
 

Aset's Flames

Viperine Asetian
i reckon HaSatan (Azazel, Cronus) is actually the hero here (Lawful Good).

What did Azazel teach humans ? Weapon and armour smithing for war. In other words, he taught humans how to fight back the evil aliens, the giants for freedom against slavery.

Look at Roswell; when did the evil aliens turn up ? Answer, when humans had WMD's (nukes) to destroy the evil slave driver Annunaki race.

Look at how the Book of Enoch has made the fallen Watchers look evil when in actual fact they taught mankind technology and constructed Atlantis.

We are disccusing biblical mythology.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
Now this is my first post on this site and I'm not really looking for arguments or shooting down ideas, but I want to learn as I go through this spiritual journey. I have recently converted from Catholicism to Wicca. I have had several questions that concern all different denominations of Christianity, but I'll start with this simple one.

During my conversion, I found out 'Sin' isn't exactly what I thought it was since I was a kid. I thought Sin was all that was considered 'evil', but I realized that it is actually anything that goes against the Commandments or "The Lord's word". It may consider what is evil, such as killing and stealing, but in the Bible, it elaborates on many other things that don't seem to be considered evil such as tattoos or wearing two different kinds of fabric.

God of Abraham had committed serious and tragic acts such as the flood, but when I was a kid, I didn't think much of it; thought simply that the world was full of evil humans and he needed to reset it. But I soon realized that the world's animals had perished as well, and I doubt animals can be considered evil. Then there was the story of Job. When I read through that story, I came to realize that maybe God isn't actually considered good, he had tormented a faithful follower for a bet with Satan. He had committed acts that people would consider evil, but he is praised as a God of good. He had answered prayers and blessed people, yes, but I believe only his followers, as for anyone who didn't believe in him, they didn't get the same treatment, sometimes worse.

Jesus has always been a beacon of good and hope, and I agree, he had not committed any dark or cruel acts while he lived. But he differs from his father. They may be one and the same to most or all Christians, but to me they both differ heavily in choices. While his father would punish heavily, Jesus would forgive and ask others to love.

Lastly, I had believed access to heaven was simply be a good person in life, but right before moments of questioning my faith, I came to realize it's "Not enough" as most or all Christians would say. "Believe that Jesus died for our sins, pray for forgiveness" and you will get into heaven. But that would mean a ruthless killer will a murder streak would have a better chance of getting into heaven than a pure hearted atheist who had done little to no wrong in life.

A good alignment isn't held higher than belief. The killer would have a good chance in access to the 'Kingdom' if he asks for forgiveness and praises Jesus' name right before death. But why? If a righteous heart isn't as important as believing in the deity, then is Abraham's God truly good?

In Dungeons and Dragons, there's a list of fictional Gods and Goddesses with their alignment to the side (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful, Neutral). I would have to say that Abraham's God is possibly Lawful Neutral at best. Some people actually state that he is evil. Some say he's actually Satan, deceiving the Christians. There's a lot of speculation going on because of these thoughts.

Something to think about is the way people use the word "good". People often use the word good selfishly - in terms that say something is "good" or "bad" for me. If you get an A on a test, then people say you did "good". What is this "good"? This good is just me me me me.
 
Top