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The Alignment of the Christian God

Aset's Flames

Viperine Asetian
I was looking at what was good for everyone involved.

The deity in question murders innocents when not needed so that to me seems to be evil.

Do you disagree?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Now this is my first post on this site and I'm not really looking for arguments or shooting down ideas, but I want to learn as I go through this spiritual journey. I have recently converted from Catholicism to Wicca. I have had several questions that concern all different denominations of Christianity, but I'll start with this simple one.

During my conversion, I found out 'Sin' isn't exactly what I thought it was since I was a kid. I thought Sin was all that was considered 'evil', but I realized that it is actually anything that goes against the Commandments or "The Lord's word". It may consider what is evil, such as killing and stealing, but in the Bible, it elaborates on many other things that don't seem to be considered evil such as tattoos or wearing two different kinds of fabric.

God of Abraham had committed serious and tragic acts such as the flood, but when I was a kid, I didn't think much of it; thought simply that the world was full of evil humans and he needed to reset it. But I soon realized that the world's animals had perished as well, and I doubt animals can be considered evil. Then there was the story of Job. When I read through that story, I came to realize that maybe God isn't actually considered good, he had tormented a faithful follower for a bet with Satan. He had committed acts that people would consider evil, but he is praised as a God of good. He had answered prayers and blessed people, yes, but I believe only his followers, as for anyone who didn't believe in him, they didn't get the same treatment, sometimes worse.

Jesus has always been a beacon of good and hope, and I agree, he had not committed any dark or cruel acts while he lived. But he differs from his father. They may be one and the same to most or all Christians, but to me they both differ heavily in choices. While his father would punish heavily, Jesus would forgive and ask others to love.

Lastly, I had believed access to heaven was simply be a good person in life, but right before moments of questioning my faith, I came to realize it's "Not enough" as most or all Christians would say. "Believe that Jesus died for our sins, pray for forgiveness" and you will get into heaven. But that would mean a ruthless killer will a murder streak would have a better chance of getting into heaven than a pure hearted atheist who had done little to no wrong in life.

A good alignment isn't held higher than belief. The killer would have a good chance in access to the 'Kingdom' if he asks for forgiveness and praises Jesus' name right before death. But why? If a righteous heart isn't as important as believing in the deity, then is Abraham's God truly good?

In Dungeons and Dragons, there's a list of fictional Gods and Goddesses with their alignment to the side (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful, Neutral). I would have to say that Abraham's God is possibly Lawful Neutral at best. Some people actually state that he is evil. Some say he's actually Satan, deceiving the Christians. There's a lot of speculation going on because of these thoughts.

I believe there is no difference. Jesus will return in judgement upon the wicked of earth.

I don't believe this.

I believe what the Bible says that the heart is desperately wicked. Atheists certainly are at a disadvantage.

I believe that is a false assessment. A person does not have a good heart if He doesn't believe in God.

I don't believe it speculation is worth much. The Bible says God is good.
 

Aset's Flames

Viperine Asetian
I believe there is no difference. Jesus will return in judgement upon the wicked of earth.

I don't believe this.

I believe what the Bible says that the heart is desperately wicked. Atheists certainly are at a disadvantage.

I believe that is a false assessment. A person does not have a good heart if He doesn't believe in God.

I don't believe it speculation is worth much. The Bible says God is good.

The bible also says that you must beilive in Jesus as your lord and savior to reach heaven but you ignored that.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Now this is my first post on this site and I'm not really looking for arguments or shooting down ideas, but I want to learn as I go through this spiritual journey. I have recently converted from Catholicism to Wicca. I have had several questions that concern all different denominations of Christianity, but I'll start with this simple one.

During my conversion, I found out 'Sin' isn't exactly what I thought it was since I was a kid. I thought Sin was all that was considered 'evil', but I realized that it is actually anything that goes against the Commandments or "The Lord's word". It may consider what is evil, such as killing and stealing, but in the Bible, it elaborates on many other things that don't seem to be considered evil such as tattoos or wearing two different kinds of fabric.

God of Abraham had committed serious and tragic acts such as the flood, but when I was a kid, I didn't think much of it; thought simply that the world was full of evil humans and he needed to reset it. But I soon realized that the world's animals had perished as well, and I doubt animals can be considered evil. Then there was the story of Job. When I read through that story, I came to realize that maybe God isn't actually considered good, he had tormented a faithful follower for a bet with Satan. He had committed acts that people would consider evil, but he is praised as a God of good. He had answered prayers and blessed people, yes, but I believe only his followers, as for anyone who didn't believe in him, they didn't get the same treatment, sometimes worse.

Jesus has always been a beacon of good and hope, and I agree, he had not committed any dark or cruel acts while he lived. But he differs from his father. They may be one and the same to most or all Christians, but to me they both differ heavily in choices. While his father would punish heavily, Jesus would forgive and ask others to love.

Lastly, I had believed access to heaven was simply be a good person in life, but right before moments of questioning my faith, I came to realize it's "Not enough" as most or all Christians would say. "Believe that Jesus died for our sins, pray for forgiveness" and you will get into heaven. But that would mean a ruthless killer will a murder streak would have a better chance of getting into heaven than a pure hearted atheist who had done little to no wrong in life.

A good alignment isn't held higher than belief. The killer would have a good chance in access to the 'Kingdom' if he asks for forgiveness and praises Jesus' name right before death. But why? If a righteous heart isn't as important as believing in the deity, then is Abraham's God truly good?

In Dungeons and Dragons, there's a list of fictional Gods and Goddesses with their alignment to the side (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful, Neutral). I would have to say that Abraham's God is possibly Lawful Neutral at best. Some people actually state that he is evil. Some say he's actually Satan, deceiving the Christians. There's a lot of speculation going on because of these thoughts.

Disobedience to God is sin. Tell me, what was the sin of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit? Honestly, what was wrong with the fruit? No one knows. However, God commanded them not to eat of it, and they ate of it. They sinned. If the Bible says eating pork is a sin, it is a sin. If it says no tattoos, then no tattoos. You either desire to obey God or you don't. God knows very well the difference between those who are trying to do their best to be obedient to Him and those who question His motives and intent.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Thank you for welcoming me, Outhouse.

I use to think the Bible was filled with metaphors and guidelines to life, but a lot of things are taken literal. Like the blood and body of Jesus. Found out when the wine and cracker is blessed, it's suppose to be the actual body and blood. I thought Christianity was against blood and human body consumption.

I'm happy that intuition, reason, and logic are sinking in. Many don't get to that point as they become too far gone.

Perhaps Jesus is not a literal guy or deity but something residing in the blood of the human's body.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Disobedience to God is sin. Tell me, what was the sin of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit? Honestly, what was wrong with the fruit? No one knows. However, God commanded them not to eat of it, and they ate of it. They sinned. If the Bible says eating pork is a sin, it is a sin. If it says no tattoos, then no tattoos. You either desire to obey God or you don't. God knows very well the difference between those who are trying to do their best to be obedient to Him and those who question His motives and intent.

For one, knowledge resides in the brain which is the tree of good and evil. Adam(the human's conscious mind) impregnates Eve(the human's subconscious mind) with an "evil" mind baby(seed of knowledge.)

Eating pork isn't eating literal pork. Eating and drinking in text are the things the mind intakes and consumes. Pork represents a pig, which in ancient dark sayings... represents a lower minded person.

As "Jesus" says, don't give wisdom to pigs(lower-minded)... they will attack you.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
I believe there is no difference. Jesus will return in judgement upon the wicked of earth.

I don't believe this.

I believe what the Bible says that the heart is desperately wicked. Atheists certainly are at a disadvantage.

I believe that is a false assessment. A person does not have a good heart if He doesn't believe in God.

I don't believe it speculation is worth much. The Bible says God is good.

A person does not have a "good" heart if they don't believe in "Good."

The wicked aren't flesh and blood, the wicked are abstract thoughts, emotions, knowledge.

The earth is the brain.

Jesus isn't a literal guy, historical figure, or deity.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Indeed. The only time Christians seem happy to quote the Pentateuch is when they're condemning something like gay marriage or maybe even tattoos. Other than that they're usually happy to ignore it and wear clothes of mixed fibres.

Lol, true.

Although I see not literal clothes. I see mixed fibers more along the lines of being two-faced, or hypocritical.

If I tell someone else to not judge yet I am judging someone, I would be wearing clothes of two fibers.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
The bible also says that you must beilive in Jesus as your lord and savior to reach heaven but you ignored that.

Yes, must believe in the peaceful and pure way, and the truth to be set free and liberated from lies, suffering, etc. and reach a conscious state of bliss, joy, peace, happiness, rest.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
I see that you have not let go of all Christian beliefs yet and have not taken in all Wiccan ones yet judging by your answers.

Assuming that this deity exist I would say that he is both Lawful and Evil.

He requires others to worship him and follow his rules or tortures them for enternity as well as slaughtering and killing innocents.

For example in the flood, where all of the children at that time wicked and vile?

Hell yes all the mind's animal thoughts, emotions, and knowledge were "wicked and vile" before they were consumed and flooded away.

Anyone who doesn't follow the rule/way/path of peace, purity, and truth will continue to be in a conscious state of suffering(hell) in ways.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
For one, knowledge resides in the brain which is the tree of good and evil. Adam(the human's conscious mind) impregnates Eve(the human's subconscious mind) with an "evil" mind baby(seed of knowledge.)

Eating pork isn't eating literal pork. Eating and drinking in text are the things the mind intakes and consumes. Pork represents a pig, which in ancient dark sayings... represents a lower minded person.

As "Jesus" says, don't give wisdom to pigs(lower-minded)... they will attack you.
I believe you are confusing analogy with very real and direct commandments.

"Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing. These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois. And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase."
(Deuteronomy 14 3-8)
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
If you accept that the bible is not infallible then why do you believe that Yeshua (better known as Jesus) did the miracles reported in it? There are no other documents report in his miracles outside of these works.

There is actually more documentation of Elvis sightings after Elvis's death then there are reports of Yeshua's miracles.

Making the blind see (become aware), the deaf hear (understand), walking on water, turning water into wine, etc. are not literal or exoteric.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
I believe you are confusing analogy with very real and direct commandments.

"Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing. These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois. And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase."
(Deuteronomy 14 3-8)

All symbolic and poorly translated for words that were thousands and thousands of years old and undeveloped like words and language we see today. You may want to consider looking into what all of those animals and stuff were symbolic of by the ancients and their dark sayings before taking them literally. . even going back to Sanskrit.

"Jesus" stated what the whole law and the prophets were. Mankind has made a giant mess trying to not only interpret undeveloped words many thousands of years ago, but also taking them literally rather than learning what the different animals symbolized by our VERY ancient ancestors.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
All symbolic and poorly translated for words that were thousands and thousands of years old and undeveloped like words and language we see today. You may want to consider looking into what all of those animals and stuff were symbolic of by the ancients and their dark sayings before taking them literally. . even going back to Sanskrit.

"Jesus" stated what the whole law and the prophets were. Mankind has made a giant mess trying to not only interpret undeveloped words many thousands of years ago, but also taking them literally rather than learning what the different animals symbolized by our VERY ancient ancestors.
Please forgive me if I don't take your word for it. I interpret what I read for myself. And it is quite clear. I understand fully why you choose to disassociate the truth from the text, but I refuse to do that.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Indeed. The only time Christians seem happy to quote the Pentateuch is when they're condemning something like gay marriage or maybe even tattoos. Other than that they're usually happy to ignore it and wear clothes of mixed fibres.
You'll be happy to note that I never wear clothing with mixed fibers woven into the garment.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Please forgive me if I don't take your word for it. I interpret what I read for myself. And it is quite clear. I understand fully why you choose to disassociate the truth from the text, but I refuse to do that.

Please forgive me if I see "chewing the cud" as mental rumination as opposed to the must-have literal knowledge of not literally chewing on literal cud. Great wisdom.
 

cambridge79

Active Member
Now this is my first post on this site and I'm not really looking for arguments or shooting down ideas, but I want to learn as I go through this spiritual journey. I have recently converted from Catholicism to Wicca. I have had several questions that concern all different denominations of Christianity, but I'll start with this simple one.

During my conversion, I found out 'Sin' isn't exactly what I thought it was since I was a kid. I thought Sin was all that was considered 'evil', but I realized that it is actually anything that goes against the Commandments or "The Lord's word". It may consider what is evil, such as killing and stealing, but in the Bible, it elaborates on many other things that don't seem to be considered evil such as tattoos or wearing two different kinds of fabric.

God of Abraham had committed serious and tragic acts such as the flood, but when I was a kid, I didn't think much of it; thought simply that the world was full of evil humans and he needed to reset it. But I soon realized that the world's animals had perished as well, and I doubt animals can be considered evil. Then there was the story of Job. When I read through that story, I came to realize that maybe God isn't actually considered good, he had tormented a faithful follower for a bet with Satan. He had committed acts that people would consider evil, but he is praised as a God of good. He had answered prayers and blessed people, yes, but I believe only his followers, as for anyone who didn't believe in him, they didn't get the same treatment, sometimes worse.

Jesus has always been a beacon of good and hope, and I agree, he had not committed any dark or cruel acts while he lived. But he differs from his father. They may be one and the same to most or all Christians, but to me they both differ heavily in choices. While his father would punish heavily, Jesus would forgive and ask others to love.

Lastly, I had believed access to heaven was simply be a good person in life, but right before moments of questioning my faith, I came to realize it's "Not enough" as most or all Christians would say. "Believe that Jesus died for our sins, pray for forgiveness" and you will get into heaven. But that would mean a ruthless killer will a murder streak would have a better chance of getting into heaven than a pure hearted atheist who had done little to no wrong in life.

A good alignment isn't held higher than belief. The killer would have a good chance in access to the 'Kingdom' if he asks for forgiveness and praises Jesus' name right before death. But why? If a righteous heart isn't as important as believing in the deity, then is Abraham's God truly good?

In Dungeons and Dragons, there's a list of fictional Gods and Goddesses with their alignment to the side (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful, Neutral). I would have to say that Abraham's God is possibly Lawful Neutral at best. Some people actually state that he is evil. Some say he's actually Satan, deceiving the Christians. There's a lot of speculation going on because of these thoughts.

everyone can decide for himself if taking this as a joke or as something serious but i think it's quite fitting

Bible_deaths2.jpg
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
Disobedience to God is sin. Tell me, what was the sin of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit? Honestly, what was wrong with the fruit? No one knows. However, God commanded them not to eat of it, and they ate of it. They sinned. If the Bible says eating pork is a sin, it is a sin. If it says no tattoos, then no tattoos. You either desire to obey God or you don't. God knows very well the difference between those who are trying to do their best to be obedient to Him and those who question His motives and intent.

What's virtuous about blind obedience?
 
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