The Amazing Quran

[Fatihah]

First off , only mathematics uses proof, everything else is about evidence.
What have I said is true because "it says its true", name one thing?
I have given you the quote in the Quran, how many times do I have to give it ?
Here it is again:
86:5
"he Was created from water, discharged , issuing from between the mans backbone and the women's breast bones"
However you look at it this statement cannot be reconciled with science. But lets have a laugh as you try.
Furthermore why dnt you answer my question: what would it take to change your mind on the truth of the Quran?

Response: This doesn't answer the question posed in post 57. So again, quote from the qur'an where it says that sperm is not from the testes and eggs are not in the ovaries, if you are truthful. Now are you saying that the verse in which you've quoted says this? If so, then why don't you highlight the word "testes", "sperm", "ovaries", or "eggs", from the verse if you are truthful.

As for you question concerning the qur'an, what would change my mind about the truth of the qur'an would be if there is a discrepancy, or if one were to produce a chapter like the qur'an. For it is impossible to create a chapter like the qur'an. If you demonstrate otherwise, then you can prove that the qur'an is not from Allah (swt), but is human made.

Lastly, I'm not speaking of you claiming that it is true because it says so on this thread, but your reason for denying the qur'an as the truth. In post 30, you said that the evidence is that humans evolved and not created from clay. Now if I were to ask you to prove that man is not from clay, your answer would be a link from a scientist saying otherwise. This would be saying it's true, because the link says it's true.

 

[Fatihah]

Correct Fatihah,there is no proof of 90 foot tall Men, Mountains as Pegs ,talking Ants or fling Horses

Response: Likewise, there is no proof of your statement.

 

[JMorris]

Response: Likewise, there is no proof of your statement.

:biglaugh:i vote we rename this thread "Fatihah's greatest hits"

 

[Fatihah]

:biglaugh:i vote we rename this thread "Fatihah's greatest hits"

Or Trolling 101 by JMorris.

 

[JMorris]

Or Trolling 101 by JMorris.

hey, im taking this conversation as atleast as seriously as you are, if not more.

 

[skydivephil]

Response: This doesn't answer the question posed in post 57. So again, quote from the qur'an where it says that sperm is not from the testes and eggs are not in the ovaries, if you are truthful. Now are you saying that the verse in which you've quoted says this? If so, then why don't you highlight the word "testes", "sperm", "ovaries", or "eggs", from the verse if you are truthful.

As for you question concerning the qur'an, what would change my mind about the truth of the qur'an would be if there is a discrepancy, or if one were to produce a chapter like the qur'an. For it is impossible to create a chapter like the qur'an. If you demonstrate otherwise, then you can prove that the qur'an is not from Allah (swt), but is human made.

Lastly, I'm not speaking of you claiming that it is true because it says so on this thread, but your reason for denying the qur'an as the truth. In post 30, you said that the evidence is that humans evolved and not created from clay. Now if I were to ask you to prove that man is not from clay, your answer would be a link from a scientist saying otherwise. This would be saying it's true, because the link says it's true.

What the Quran clearly states is the we come from a fluid and this is from the breast bone and the back bone, since we actually come from a fluid that is in the testes and an egg that is in the ovaries the Quran has it wrong. Why is that so hard to understand?

When you say you would deny the Quran if there was a discrepancy, is that an internal discrepancy or a discrepancy with nature?
Why would an internal discrepancy matter, is there an internal discrepancy in novel like "The Lord of the Rings" ? Would the absence of one turn in into a true story?
Why does uniqueness make it true? Many people think Shakespeare work is unrivaled , does that make it true?
As for evidence and evolution, i would not simply link to a scientist saying otherwise, i would link to the data that shows it. Data in science is subject to peer review and replication. Therefore it is highly unlikely that someone could just make something up. That is the key difference .

 

[Fatihah]

I asked you in post 61:

Now are you saying that the verse in which you've quoted says this? If so, then why don't you highlight the word "testes", "sperm", "ovaries", or "eggs", from the verse if you are truthful.

So you respond with the following:

quote=skydivephil;1908499]What the Quran clearly states is the we come from a fluid and this is from the breast bone and the back bone, since we actually come from a fluid that is in the testes and an egg that is in the ovaries the Quran has it wrong. Why is that so hard to understand?

[/quote]

As expected, you have no proof. You claimed the qur'an mentioned certain words, yet when asked to highlight those words, you failed to do so. Thus we can clearly see that you are a liar. Yet, al hamdu lilah, such lies only confirm the validity of the qur'an that it is free of discrepancy, while at the same time showing how many non-muslims will try many sad attempts to prove otherwise. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Fatihah]

When you say you would deny the Quran if there was a discrepancy, is that an internal discrepancy or a discrepancy with nature?
Why would an internal discrepancy matter, is there an internal discrepancy in novel like "The Lord of the Rings" ? Would the absence of one turn in into a true story?
Why does uniqueness make it true? Many people think Shakespeare work is unrivaled , does that make it true?
As for evidence and evolution, i would not simply link to a scientist saying otherwise, i would link to the data that shows it. Data in science is subject to peer review and replication. Therefore it is highly unlikely that someone could just make something up. That is the key difference .

Response: A discrepancy is a discrepancy of any kind, being nature or internal. As for your evidence of evolution, if you link to data that shows peer review and replication, that still is not proof. A
link which says that peer review and replication took place is not proof that it actually took place. Thus you have no proof.

 

[skydivephil]

I asked you in post 61:




So you respond with the following:

quote=skydivephil;1908499]What the Quran clearly states is the we come from a fluid and this is from the breast bone and the back bone, since we actually come from a fluid that is in the testes and an egg that is in the ovaries the Quran has it wrong. Why is that so hard to understand?

As expected, you have no proof. You claimed the qur'an mentioned certain words, yet when asked to highlight those words, you failed to do so. Thus we can clearly see that you are a liar. Yet, al hamdu lilah, such lies only confirm the validity of the qur'an that it is free of discrepancy, while at the same time showing how many non-muslims will try many sad attempts to prove otherwise. Thanks for the clarification.[/QUOTE]

Find me a single quote where I said the Quran uses the words semen, testes or ovaries? I didn't say that, you simply fail to understand the point. The point is this is what the Quran does say:
that we come from a fluid that is in the backbone or breast plate.
This verse in the Quran is not correct, we do come from fluid that is in the testes and an egg that is in the ovaries. If you don't understand this point then thats your lack of understanding.

 

[skydivephil]

Response: A discrepancy is a discrepancy of any kind, being nature or internal. As for your evidence of evolution, if you link to data that shows peer review and replication, that still is not proof. A
link which says that peer review and replication took place is not proof that it actually took place. Thus you have no proof.

If you don't accept scientific research that has been replicated and peer reviewed, you clearly will not accept any science. What will you accept? If other Islamists have the same view as you then perhaps that is why Islamic societies are so hopelessly backwards.

 

[Fatihah]

If you don't accept scientific research that has been replicated and peer reviewed, you clearly will not accept any science. What will you accept? If other Islamists have the same view as you then perhaps that is why Islamic societies are so hopelessly backwards.

Response: I never said that I don't accept science that has been replicated and peer reviewed. The problem you have is that your acceptance of science which is replicated and peer reviewed is selective, due to reasons which are not logical. For the evidence that the qur'an and sunnah is true us based on the same science, yet you deny it's validity. Thus your whole argument is a double standard, which does not hold up.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Response: Does every response have to begin with "Respone"?

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Likewise, there is no proof of your statement.

 

[Fatihah]

As expected, you have no proof. You claimed the qur'an mentioned certain words, yet when asked to highlight those words, you failed to do so. Thus we can clearly see that you are a liar. Yet, al hamdu lilah, such lies only confirm the validity of the qur'an that it is free of discrepancy, while at the same time showing how many non-muslims will try many sad attempts to prove otherwise. Thanks for the clarification.

Find me a single quote where I said the Quran uses the words semen, testes or ovaries? I didn't say that, you simply fail to understand the point. The point is this is what the Quran does say:
that we come from a fluid that is in the backbone or breast plate.
This verse in the Quran is not correct, we do come from fluid that is in the testes and an egg that is in the ovaries. If you don't understand this point then thats your lack of understanding.[/quote]

Response: Your own words in posts 54 is where you say the qur'an uses the words, semen,testes, ovaries, when you said that the qur'an says "otherwise" about semen coming from testes and eggs in the ovaries.

Secondly, there's the statement. Where's the proof? Prove that we are not created from a liquid between the loins and breastbone.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: I never said that I don't accept science that has been replicated and peer reviewed. The problem you have is that your acceptance of science which is replicated and peer reviewed is selective, due to reasons which are not logical. For the evidence that the qur'an and sunnah is true us based on the same science, yet you deny it's validity. Thus your whole argument is a double standard, which does not hold up.

Ok, Fatihah, if indeed your arguments are so compelling, why is it that most non-Muslims do not see the logic your employ?
Further to this, why is science, in general, completely dismissive of these "Miracles in the Qur'an"?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Response: Your own words in posts 54 is where you say the qur'an uses the words, semen,testes, ovaries, when you said that the qur'an says "otherwise" about semen coming from testes and eggs in the ovaries.

Secondly, there's the statement. Where's the proof? Prove that we are not created from a liquid between the loins and breastbone.

Response: I am responding to your response with a responsible response of my own. It is your responsibility to respond with an appropriate response.

Capice?

 

[Fatihah]

Ok, Fatihah, if indeed your arguments are so compelling, why is it that most non-Muslims do not see the logic your employ?
Further to this, why is science, in general, completely dismissive of these "Miracles in the Qur'an"?

Response: Denial is the reason why a non-muslim wish not to acknowledge. It's not a case of them not knowing it's the truth because they do know. However, ego plays the role in why they, like yourself, won't acknowledge it.

Secondly, many scientists agree with the scientific miracles of the qur'an. So science is not dismissive of iy.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Response: Denial is the reason why a non-muslim wish not to acknowledge. It's not a case of them not knowing it's the truth because they do know. However, ego plays the role in why they, like yourself, won't acknowledge it.

Except that you can apply this claim to yourself as well. How do you know that it is not you who is denying reality, and your ego is keeping you from acknowledging what you know is true - that your beliefs are just a delusion?

Secondly, many scientists agree with the scientific miracles of the qur'an. So science is not dismissive of iy.

Which scientists?

 

[Fatihah]

Except that you can apply this claim to yourself as well. How do you know that it is not you who is denying reality, and your ego is keeping you from acknowledging what you know is true - that your beliefs are just a delusion?


Which scientists?

Response: I know so by understanding what denial and truth is, and choosing not to be in denial and accepting the truth. As for the scientists, I don't keep a record of all of them, but one by the name of Keith Moore and Maurice Bucaille come to mind.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Response: I know so by understanding what denial and truth is, and choosing not to be in denial and accepting the truth.

So claims you, but since you admit that the vast majority of human reasoning is faulty and based on denial, why is it that you trust your judgement over anyone else's?

For example, I am certain that I know that you are wrong by understanding what denial is and what is the best method of ascertaining truth. How do you know that your conclusion is more correct than mine?

In other words, I'm looking for objective verification that justifies your belief. Do you have it?

As for the scientists, I don't keep a record of all of them, but one by the name of Keith Moore and Maurice Bucaille come to mind.

Can you give an example of Keith Moore claiming that the Qur'an contains "scientific miracles"?

Maurice Bacaille has claimed that science does not contradict the Qur'an, but as far as I'm aware has never claimed that the Qur'an is scientifically accurate. Can you provide any more information on him as well?

I suppose I seem to be asking for a lot, but it is necessary to validate your claim.