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The Arab World: the Perspective of an "Insider"

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
After hearing the news of the terrorist attacks in Paris, I decided to go and read some comments by Muslims on social media. Much of what I found was in line with my expectations: a lot of Muslims were blaming the "West" for the creation of ISIS, saying that worse tragedies were happening in the Middle East without much media coverage, and denying that there could ever be Muslims as extremist as ISIS members.

This is not the first time I, as an Arab living in the Middle East, have seen this sort of denial and lack of introspection from many Muslims. When Morsi was ousted in 2013, a lot of Egyptians accused the West of conspiring against him and the Muslim Brotherhood in a "war on Islam," supposedly to stop Egypt from developing and obstruct the creation of a true Islamic state. On the other side of the coin, many on the anti-Brotherhood and anti-Morsi side stated that the West was upset with Morsi's ouster and that he served the West's interests in Egypt and the Middle East.

There were and are two diametrically opposed political sides in Egypt, but there is only one constant between them: they both blame a lot of the country's problems and its regimes' misgivings—both the misgivings of Morsi's regime and the current one—on the West and Israel. Actually, a common theme of this sort of placing blame on the West and Israel is saying that Morsi's ouster was to protect Israel, and, on the other side of the coin yet again, saying that the West hates As-Sisi because he wants to advance Egypt and doesn't serve Israel's and the United States' best interests.

Personally, I think it is time the Muslim world, especially the Arab world, stopped scapegoating others and refusing to own up to the problems they are primarily responsible for. Yes, a lot of developed countries (including Israel) have committed war crimes in the Middle East and interfered in the region to advance their own interests at the expense of Middle Eastern people, but let's be real. The region also has a lot of problems that it and only it has created. The first step toward fixing something is recognizing and admitting that it is broken, and this Arab recognizes that much of what is going very, very wrong in his country of birth is due to a lot of its own people's and governments' mistakes and selfishness.

Wake up, Middle East. Introspection is the only way out, not scapegoating, avoidance, and denial.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
So you absolve the West of responsibility for many of the problems the Middle East is having today??
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
So you absolve the West of responsibility for many of the problems the Middle East is having today??

Read my post again:

[...]

Yes, a lot of developed countries (including Israel) have committed war crimes in the Middle East and interfered in the region to advance their own interests at the expense of Middle Eastern people, but let's be real. The region also has a lot of problems that it and only it has created. The first step toward fixing something is recognizing and admitting that it is broken, and this Arab recognizes that much of what is going very, very wrong in his country of birth is due to a lot of its own people's and governments' mistakes and selfishness.

Wake up, Middle East. Introspection is the only way out, not scapegoating, avoidance, and denial.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
This is gonna be good.

Smiley-Pop.gif
 

MARCELLO

Transitioning from male to female
There are many muslims who believe that ISIS is a product of Israel,since ISIS does not attack Israel,they claim that.

Their second claim is that they are always cheated.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Because the Coalition forced Iraqi Sunnis & Shias to steal weaponry and start fighting each other :rolleyes:
under Sadam was Sunni and Shia in peace , when USA invade Iraq for oil , the suicide bombs start and Iraqis start killing each other more .



If the West hadn't intervened in Libya you'd be sitting here complaining about how we sat back and let Gaddafi (a west-backed dictator) turn Benghazi into a blood bath.
So NATO intervented to save libyan from Gaddafi ? to be better .
seems Libyans are in save now !!

I bet most of Libyans wish days of Gaddafi back

the process of changing a regime (which consider dictatoric for West) by terrorism and civil wars , is fact .
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
I agree with you. The west is involved in many conflict for its personnal interests but muslims have also a part of responsability.

It remember me of some muslims who are still complaining about loosing Spain.
My mother until now don't understand why they didn't accept Islam and why we had to left...
I explained to her hundred times that it was a form of colonialism, it wasn't our land and they are free to refuse to believe, but she still don't understand :rolleyes:

I also remember that many supported Kadaffi because they thought the West was spreading lies about him as he wanted to unite the arabs, the africans in general and wasn't afraid to say what he thinks.
But when they saw how he really was they were shocked. Some just don't want to see the reality.

I knew someone who met Kadaffi and he confirmed me that he was crazy.

under Sadam was Sunni and Shia in peace , when USA invade Iraq for oil , the suicide bombs start and Iraqis start killing each other more .

This is the main problem.
Why muslims are killing each others ? How a supposed sane person can attack his own people ?
The americans are the one who attacked them, yet irakis were killing each others ...

the process of changing a regime (which consider dictatoric for West) by terrorism and civil wars , is fact .

Nobody can convice me to kill an innocent person, or to hate a group of people.
Some muslim foreigners dare to go in Irak and Syria to kill people who have been there for centuries.
Just yesterday i was watching a documentary about irakis and daesh.

The father said one bomb explosed and his 2 daughters under the age of 10 years old who were in their car died.
They were calling "dad, dad" but he couldn't open the doors of the car. He saw them burning.
Is that the fault of the west ?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Keep in mind the west would not be involved to the extent it has in light of 9/11.

The west didn't start the mess.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
under Sadam was Sunni and Shia in peace , when USA invade Iraq for oil , the suicide bombs start and Iraqis start killing each other more .




So NATO intervented to save libyan from Gaddafi ? to be better .
seems Libyans are in save now !!

I bet most of Libyans wish days of Gaddafi back

the process of changing a regime (which consider dictatoric for West) by terrorism and civil wars , is fact .

Hello Godobeyer! I have to agree with you that unfortunately we have not left the situation in Libya and Iraq in a better state from our intervention there. And yes I'm sure if not for oil....but that is subject for another thread. But going forward what are your views concerning how we should as westerners and free Muslims and just free people of the world, go about combating Isis in Syria and Iraq especially in light of the Paris attacks? I don't see these people, Isis and
other terror groups, just deciding that peace is the way. Salam brother.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I agree with you. The west is involved in many conflict for its personnal interests but muslims have also a part of responsability.

It remember me of some muslims who are still complaining about loosing Spain.
My mother until now don't understand why they didn't accept Islam and why we had to left...
I explained to her hundred times that it was a form of colonialism, it wasn't our land and they are free to refuse to believe, but she still don't understand :rolleyes:

I also remember that many supported Kadaffi because they thought the West was spreading lies about him as he wanted to unite the arabs, the africans in general and wasn't afraid to say what he thinks.
But when they saw how he really was they were shocked. Some just don't want to see the reality.

I knew someone who met Kadaffi and he confirmed me that he was crazy.



This is the main problem.
Why muslims are killing each others ? How a supposed sane person can attack his own people ?
The americans are the one who attacked them, yet irakis were killing each others ...



Nobody can convice me to kill an innocent person, or to hate a group of people.
Some muslim foreigners dare to go in Irak and Syria to kill people who have been there for centuries.
Just yesterday i was watching a documentary about irakis and daesh.

The father said one bomb explosed and his 2 daughters under the age of 10 years old who were in their car died.
They were calling "dad, dad" but he couldn't open the doors of the car. He saw them burning.
Is that the fault of the west ?

Wise words friend. Very sad about the two little girls killed by Daesh bomb. As a parent myself, my heart goes out to that Father and mother of those two little girls. No parent should have to endure such as that. And the people who do these things actually believe that God likes it when they shed innocent blood? How could these people believe that they are doing Gods work? :(
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
Wise words friend. Very sad about the two little girls killed by Daesh bomb. As a parent myself, my heart goes out to that Father and mother of those two little girls. No parent should have to endure such as that. And the people who do these things actually believe that God likes it when they shed innocent blood? How could these people believe that they are doing Gods work? :(

I think those people are selfish and just want to go to paradise. I don't understand how they think thay can reach it that way after killing innocent people.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Keep in mind the west would not be involved to the extent it has in light of 9/11.

The west didn't start the mess.

Excuse me???? Have you clean forgotten about the gulf war and George Bush senior, 10 years before 9/11 where an estimated up to 1 million Iraqis died from Allied bombing??
 
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David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think those people are selfish and just want to go to paradise. I don't understand how they think thay can reach it that way after killing innocent people.
I agree brother. I think they will be in for a terrible awakening when they stand before God and try to explain to Him how they thought that deliberately killing innocent children somehow showed honor to Him. Peace brother.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
So you absolve the West of responsibility for many of the problems the Middle East is having today??
Straw man alert!! He explicitly said this was not what he was doing. Read his post again. He in no way was absolving the West of anything.

He merely pointed out, correctly I might add, that the West is not solely responsible for IS and the like. That there is a certain reluctance and isolationism present in that part of the world, which is largely based on their fear of Western culture.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Excuse me???? Have you clean forgotten about the gulf war and George Bush senior, 10 years before 9/11 where an estimated up to 1 million Iraqis died from Allied bombing??
And, did you forget that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (al Quds) Haj Amin al-Husseini, and the Iraqi prime minister Rashid Ali al-Gaylani both sided with Nazi Germany and actively embraced Nazi ideologies, both helping Germany abroad, emulating groups like the SS back at home, and actually agreeing with the "Final Solution" after it had begun? Point is, we have to stop living in the past. We have issues, and IS is one of them. Nothing is gained by placing blame on anyone apart from IS. They are the monsters, and they must be killed ... every single one of them, without mercy. I agree that much of the problem is due to actions of the west in the past, but placing blame on the west for problems in the Middle East does absolutely no good.

All blame must sit squarely on this group of savages we refer to as the Islamic State. They are psychopaths ... nothing more.
 
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