The Argument for God(Or Against God) Is Never a Logical One.

[jml03]

of course some of it is logical, if it wasn't and you found a 'mate' who you believed you loved based on your heart and instinct, but he was addicted to different types of drugs or alcohol and every time you got a paycheck nearly all of it went to feed that addiction, then you've just found yourself a very very undesirable situation based on heart and instinct, and you simple logic would have solved immediately.

So sometimes you make decisions that are based on feelings and instinct rather than logic?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I understand, the 10 ft flying monster & dragons comment.... But, did/do you use logic when finding a mate? Did you go by your feelings? Did you make the most logical choice when deciding who to spend time with, or did you go with your heart & instinct?

People would be much better off if they chose their mates using more reason and logic. Peoples' emotions are hardly a good indicator of what they should do.

 

[jml03]

But like I pointed out to stephenw earlier, faith in God is not the same thing as God himself. Has God himself affected your life in any measurable way?


When deciding on my wife instead of someone else, my decision was probably based more on emotion than plain logic.

When determining whether she existed in the first place, I definitiely did use logic and reason. It's getting ahead of yourself if you start asking "should I marry this person?" before you've answered the question "does this person even exist at all?"

But I'm not choosing a mate. I'm choosing my Lord and Savior. Apples and oranges. My point is that we make choices and beliefs that are sometimes based feelings and instincts. It may not be logical to you, but I know God is real because I talk to Him daily. He answers my prayers. Just because you feel He is not real, does not make it so.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But I'm not choosing a mate. I'm choosing my Lord and Savior. Apples and oranges. My point is that we make choices and beliefs that are sometimes based feelings and instincts. It may not be logical to you, but I know God is real because I talk to Him daily. He answers my prayers. Just because you feel He is not real, does not make it so.

So god's actual existence to you is irrelevant, as long as you feel that it exists.

 

[jonman122]

So sometimes you make decisions that are based on feelings and instinct rather than logic?

Not decisions that would have an effect on my entire life, such as a belief in god where i'm under the delusion that because i believe in something supernatural, after i die i'll be going to an amazing place full of fluffy clouds and happy bunnies. Emotions and instinct are good in life-saving situations, such as "oh look there is a bus heading straight for me, what should i do?" instead of pondering this until you get run over, you jump out of the way instinctually. They don't help so much in the long term though, if you are emotional about everything you do you would go through about 90000 divorces in your life. People get upset, but if you acted solely on your emotions you will do much more harm than good.

 

[jml03]

Again, this doesn't address the point. We're not talking about finding a mate. We're talking about whether or not a possible mate exists.

But feelings and instincts come into play with EVERY decision we make. Just because I talk to God and He replies and hears my cries and answer MY prayers, and you haven't heard it, does not mean you are right. If I am blind and cannot see the sun, it doesn't mean it's not real.

 

[jml03]

Not decisions that would have an effect on my entire life, such as a belief in god where i'm under the delusion that because i believe in something supernatural, after i die i'll be going to an amazing place full of fluffy clouds and happy bunnies. Emotions and instinct are good in life-saving situations, such as "oh look there is a bus heading straight for me, what should i do?" instead of pondering this until you get run over, you jump out of the way instinctually. They don't help so much in the long term though, if you are emotional about everything you do you would go through about 90000 divorces in your life. People get upset, but if you acted solely on your emotions you will do much more harm than good.

So your emotions are in no way affecting your need to debate this topic?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But I'm not choosing a mate. I'm choosing my Lord and Savior. Apples and oranges.

The whole "choosing a mate" thing was your analogy, remember?

So you choose a savior before you know he exists? That seems premature to me.

My point is that we make choices and beliefs that are sometimes based feelings and instincts.

And my point is that even though we all use feelings and instincts in certain situations, other determinations are best left to logic and reasoning.

Next time you're driving over a bridge, ask yourself whether you'd prefer that the engineer who designed it did so based on evidence-based reasoning or on what "felt" safe.

It may not be logical to you, but I know God is real because I talk to Him daily. He answers my prayers.

How does God answer your prayers?

Just because you feel He is not real, does not make it so.

By the same token, just because you feel he is real doesn't mean he is. If we want to settle this deadlock, we need to go to some outside, impartial source of information: logic and reasoning.

 

[jonman122]

So your emotions are in no way affecting your need to debate this topic?

no, just showing people that logic and reason has done much more good than religion ever has or ever will. (science: modern medicine, computers, defibrillators and so on. Religion: a big book with many contradictions.)

 

[jml03]

The whole "choosing a mate" thing was your analogy, remember?

So you choose a savior before you know he exists? That seems premature to me.


And my point is that even though we all use feelings and instincts in certain situations, other determinations are best left to logic and reasoning.

Next time you're driving over a bridge, ask yourself whether you'd prefer that the engineer who designed it did so based on evidence-based reasoning or on what "felt" safe.


How does God answer your prayers?


By the same token, just because you feel he is real doesn't mean he is. If we want to settle this deadlock, we need to go to some outside, impartial source of information: logic and reasoning.

Through my feelings I know He exists. Therefore I have chosen and found knowledge, and even more so. My point, which you seem to overlook is that we use feelings to make some decisions.

God has answered many prayers for me. Healings, children, sobriety, peace, and just recently he answered my prayers for healing for my sister and my brother was set to ship out to Afghan for another 2 years. I prayed for God to intervene. He did. My brother went in and received new orders. He is nondeployable for the next 2 1/2 years. But, I guess you will come up with some logic for that. Save it. You're not changing my mind. Cast not your pearls before the swine.

 

[jml03]

no, just showing people that logic and reason has done much more good than religion ever has or ever will. (science: modern medicine, computers, defibrillators and so on. Religion: a big book with many contradictions.)

But God made all those things.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Through my feelings I know He exists. Therefore I have chosen and found knowledge, and even more so.

No, you've found feelings.

 

[jml03]

No, you've found feelings.

To each his own, I know God is real - and one day we all will.

 

[PolyHedral]

But God made all those things.

In that case, Turing would like some compensation.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

To each his own, I know God is real - and one day we all will.

Yeah, people know all sorts of things that are incorrect.

 

[jml03]

Yeah, people know all sorts of things that are incorrect.

Well on this one, I'm afraid you cannot afford to be wrong.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Well on this one, I'm afraid you cannot afford to be wrong.

Which god's the right one again?

 

[McBell]

Well on this one, I'm afraid you cannot afford to be wrong.

Pascals wager?
Really?

 

[jonman122]

Pascals wager?
Really?

i know, i don't see why they think thats relevent in any way.

jml03
I'm at work so i can't link it, but if you're interested at all in learning more about how Pascal's wager is a fallacy go to youtube and look up "Betting on Infinity" and if you don't think thats worth your time, go then you can check this out: Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Through my feelings I know He exists. Therefore I have chosen and found knowledge, and even more so. My point, which you seem to overlook is that we use feelings to make some decisions.

I didn't overlook it; I freely admit it. My point is just that certain questions, e.g. the question of the physical existence or non-existence of a thing, lend themselves more to logical inquiry than deciding based only on "feelings".

God has answered many prayers for me. Healings, children, sobriety, peace, and just recently he answered my prayers for healing for my sister and my brother was set to ship out to Afghan for another 2 years. I prayed for God to intervene. He did. My brother went in and received new orders. He is nondeployable for the next 2 1/2 years. But, I guess you will come up with some logic for that.

I could think of a few things. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses immediately comes to mind.

Save it. You're not changing my mind. Cast not your pearls before the swine.

I doubt I could change your mind, but I think you probably don't give yourself (and others) enough credit if you're attributing people's hard work to God.