The Artist Magistra Q that hopefully can shed some light

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Are there too many rules and sayings overall from the Bible to list out as the whole essential guidance to follow and live up to? What also concerns me sometimes is that among the things in the Bible, there are things like people maybe being told to harm their children (I don't have any children) if they don't believe or talk about other Gods or whatever, different things in the Old Testament (which Jesus also seems to bring up in the New Testament and questions the Jewish people for not apparently following those laws strictly), and then there are people who have problems, either they are being bothered by actual demons or evil spirits or something or they are just crazy people with something wrong with their brains (which is the current opinion mainly of most people) and these people often think it is God talking to them or something good, and they do bad things because they think God told them to or they read something in the scripture which they take very literally or seriously, like about gouging out one's own eye, or cutting off one's own hand or foot, or otherwise killing children for various reasons or the responses to certain crimes.

With the coming of Jesus and a relaxation regarding the Ancient Laws in the Bible which may have been worked out by Paul and those after him, how do we know when and where to follow the Bible, when and where it is outmoded or outdated or even wrong or not to be followed, and if we are being hypocrites by not following it strictly (and why God commanded such things, or why we are to think God commanded such things in the first place?)?

I think that its more than likely that if I had children, and if the child said he wants to worship some other God or even Gods (which is becoming very popular these days even and this popularity of modern cartoonish polytheism may even continue and grow into the future), I would not kill him or harm him in any way (though the Bible seems to say I should be the first to throw a stone against him or bash him). Furthermore, if some voice came into my head reminding me of some verses from the Bible that are clearly found in the Bible, the Old or New Testament, which instruct me somehow or seem to suggest I should do something like that and doing such would be the best and most righteous thing to do before God and in God's eyes, I would have to not do it (though the people who get voices in their heads like that are usually also given some sensation that makes it difficult to resist the voices as well).

So, if we're in such a habit of disobeying almost everything or most things mentioned throughout the scriptures every single day, how do we become alert about the few thing that are still alright to follow? Are we really following God or are we just following the modern laws and sensibilities and opinions (which may even be works of the Devil for all we know?).

I think somewhere in the Bible it might say or suggest God doesn't Change his Law or his Ways at least, so that the Laws of the Old Testament becoming all or mostly null and void would indicate a suspicious change of character and demeanor associated with God, almost to the point of being no longer recognizable anymore as the same God.

This is why, in the Early Church, there were Heretics like Marcion who thought that the God of the Old Testament was somehow different from the God of Christ and Paul, and that these two were not compatible (and that one should follow the God of Christ and Paul, the Good God, rather than the one of the Old Testament, who Marcion thought was actually The Evil One or possibly the Devil or something).

Marcion of Sinope - Wikipedia and Marcionism - Wikipedia.

Arianism - Wikipedia

Simon the Magician.

Three or four interesting articles, some about Marcion, another about Arianism (a very popular and widespread form of Christianity in the Early days), and a third about some critics thinking Simon Magus as a character may have actually been developed from stories about Paul of Tarsus amazingly.

 

[Kenny]

Are there too many rules and sayings overall from the Bible to list out as the whole essential guidance to follow and live up to? What also concerns me sometimes is that among the things in the Bible, there are things like people maybe being told to harm their children (I don't have any children) if they don't believe or talk about other Gods or whatever, different things in the Old Testament (which Jesus also seems to bring up in the New Testament and questions the Jewish people for not apparently following those laws strictly), and then there are people who have problems, either they are being bothered by actual demons or evil spirits or something or they are just crazy people with something wrong with their brains (which is the current opinion mainly of most people) and these people often think it is God talking to them or something good, and they do bad things because they think God told them to or they read something in the scripture which they take very literally or seriously, like about gouging out one's own eye, or cutting off one's own hand or foot, or otherwise killing children for various reasons or the responses to certain crimes.

These are great questions and, many times, hard to wrap a mind around.

As far as rules, the New Testament just has two (which in reality all laws hinge on) - Matt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If you just make love the guiding force, you will find yourself hitting the mark more often and decisions become easier.

The biggest problem with the statements of "eyes and hand" et al isn't where God is concerned but rather mankind. Mankind has a strange way of twisting things or taking something literally when it was never meant to be literal. Obviously if the answer to coveting another person with your eye resulted in plucking your eye out et al, 99.9% of all people would be walking blind and named.

So, yes, something is wrong with their brains as you said.

Even within the Jewish application, I don't read where one person stoned their son and the worst of application of vows, you would still say "something is wrong with their brains" and find a counter example where it wasn't necessary to fulfill a crazy vow.

With the coming of Jesus and a relaxation regarding the Ancient Laws in the Bible which may have been worked out by Paul and those after him, how do we know when and where to follow the Bible, when and where it is outmoded or outdated or even wrong or not to be followed, and if we are being hypocrites by not following it strictly (and why God commanded such things, or why we are to think God commanded such things in the first place?)?

Why the law in the first place? It was simply to establish a line to judge oneself to the perfectness of a Holy God.

Example: If in Nevada there is no speed limit on a 200 mile straight road, where is there a violation of law in how fast you go? No law, no violation. ( Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.)

The law was simply a school teacher to show us that Jesus and Grace was the way to perfectness. Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The Law came through a servant to teach us that grace came through the Son
The Law talks about what we should be to reveal the grace of who God is towards us
The Law demands righteousness from a bankrupt sinful mankind to show us that righteousness is a gift from God

Ultimately - work based versus gift based by faith.

How do we know how to follow and what to follow? To many to detail but the principle is to follow love, grace and mercy.

I think that its more than likely that if I had children, and if the child said he wants to worship some other God or even Gods (which is becoming very popular these days even and this popularity of modern cartoonish polytheism may even continue and grow into the future), I would not kill him or harm him in any way (though the Bible seems to say I should be the first to throw a stone against him or bash him). Furthermore, if some voice came into my head reminding me of some verses from the Bible that are clearly found in the Bible, the Old or New Testament, which instruct me somehow or seem to suggest I should do something like that and doing such would be the best and most righteous thing to do before God and in God's eyes, I would have to not do it (though the people who get voices in their heads like that are usually also given some sensation that makes it difficult to resist the voices as well).

So true. I'm glad your brain is good. But what did Jesus say? Not to through the first stone but rather "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and everybody left.

There was one who could throw the stone... Jesus. But he said "Neither do I condemn you, now go and sin no more".

The law (perfectness) was only placed to point us to grace which was also in the TaNaKh.

So, if we're in such a habit of disobeying almost everything or most things mentioned throughout the scriptures every single day, how do we become alert about the few thing that are still alright to follow? Are we really following God or are we just following the modern laws and sensibilities and opinions (which may even be works of the Devil for all we know?).

Again... love, grace and mercy. How that look like may vary from person to person. Love may look different towards a lazy person that one who is trying their best and yet failing.

I think somewhere in the Bible it might say or suggest God doesn't Change his Law or his Ways at least, so that the Laws of the Old Testament becoming all or mostly null and void would indicate a suspicious change of character and demeanor associated with God, almost to the point of being no longer recognizable anymore as the same God.

Yes, at first glance I would agree with you. However, closer inspection will reveal Holiness and Grace - consistent.

Sometimes people see what they want to see. If you are against something, any excuse will be a good excuse. If you have red-tinted glasses, even a white piece of paper doesn't look white.

This is why, in the Early Church, there were Heretics like Marcion who thought that the God of the Old Testament was somehow different from the God of Christ and Paul, and that these two were not compatible (and that one should follow the God of Christ and Paul, the Good God, rather than the one of the Old Testament, who Marcion thought was actually The Evil One or possibly the Devil or something).

Yes, people have a tendency to rationalize what they don't understand. (I have done that too). But if one simply recognizes the need for revelation and understanding, and prays for it, it can become clear.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Thank you very much for the great responses! Feel free to continue you to write even on the earlier questions since I enjoy reading your writing in general and in relation to those as well!

How many religions are there, or "paths" which you think are legitimate, and where do you think each of the available life-paths or religions leads a person as an outcome in this life and the next?

This question arose as I was reading your writing above in your latest response which mentioned the Law, a Law which was apparently only mainly known to the literate among the Jewish people perhaps, and not known to the Nations, or even considered very valid or important by most anyone throughout history, except perhaps Jewish people (and especially after Jesus and Christianity, but just as soon as it became important to people and spread across the world, it was also by then considered mostly something which people could rightfully ignore and put aside in favor of the Christian beliefs and laws and ideas which seemed to perhaps differ, and when becoming very modern now, even differ from the laws of Christian communities just a few years ago, with even more being ignored and put aside entirely).

The paths I've seen throughout history, and which also seem to exist today, are as follows (and perhaps you could write on what you personally think about each and where they are expected to actually lead people and why):
Spiritual or Animist Cultural or Tribal Heritage Path (mostly people born in communities out in the middle of nowhere, like jungles)
The Ancient Jewish Law (not even apparently followed very strictly by most any Jewish person today)
The Judaism(s) of Today
The Hinduism(s) of Today
Polytheism (Genuine Idol Worship or worship of Multiple Gods as literally as possible, so not claiming they are all One even, this has been having a sort of revival by "Reconstructionists")
Witchcraft(s)
Satanism(s) and Luciferianism(s)
Gnosticism(s)
The New Age Type Beliefs
"New Religions" and Cults
Residual Folk Religions like Chinese Traditional Folk Religions and Shinto and things like that
Buddhism(s)
Atheism and "Science" as well as "Materialism" in all its various forms and meanings
Islam(s) and Bahai
Voodoo type stuff like Santeria, Palo Mayombe or something (they kind of mix up all sorts of things, are sort of syncretic and a mix of old and new sometimes)
Demon Worship (like literally people who worship Demons as Demons on purpose)

The vast majority of the world and history and humans in existence have not known the Ancient Jewish Law, and have not known Judaism. What they all knew was the religion of their own forefathers and cultures, the traditions which had developed or changed over time as they separated out and spread across the world (according to genetic studies, from out of East Africa, after being in South Africa, then moving up to the East, then crossing over maybe through Arabia, and spreading from there. All non-African types of humans are supposedly coming out from one genetic group, one ancestor set from out of East Africa according to these interesting studies).

The earliest belief systems are imagined to have resembled those of the Animists, people believing the whole world was living and thinking in some fashion, or like everything was an animal or like themselves in some way, which would turn towards increasingly symbolic thinking which would anthropomorphize things, which led to apparent polytheism, but also monotheism (which may have pre-existed a lot of these things or existed concurrently and at the same time because of ideas that "there is no separation" and so The One Thing with no distinctions made might appear Living and ourselves a part of it, like how we don't separate every little finger from the hand as not really controlled by our hand and our hand as not really controlled by our mind etc).

The idea presented in the New Testament almost seems to be that all these generations of people, however noble they may have been, all were imprisoned or existing after their deaths in Hades (Sheol) or the Underworld (which many of them seemed to speak of as well), and that they could not leave even the best parts of the Underworld (like the Bosom of Abraham section), except with the assistance of God descending into the realm as Christ and in Christ to give them a chance at the resurrection or the new world and new life (actually, they all may have been there waiting for the resurrection and were not going to remain under the Earth forever, just until the Day of Judgment, so that Christ/God descended to them to bring them and preach and teach the Good News so they could do whatever they needed to do or say whatever they needed to say (what do you think it was exactly?) to get them a good place after they are raised from the dead on Judgment Day. The Church to this day (like the Catholics and Orthodox and all that) insist that Christ/God did not descend all the way down to the depths, but only arrived to the good people, perhaps at the highest point of Hades, the Bosom of Abraham perhaps. I saw a video about it or something and it seemed important to them to insist that Jesus did not go down deep to the evil people or non-believers, but just the good and decent people up at the top.

I don't know what this video says or if its the one:

The Muslims say that Jesus is the Messiah sent to the people to correct their religion, and they attempted to kill him but he was saved from death and returned to God, but was not God and could never be God (as no man is God or could ever be God or God incarnate, and that God is far beyond such things and has no need for such things).

The New Testament says that the Jewish people will be judged by their Law, but the writings attributed to Paul seem to suggest that by taking Jesus as our savior, we are saved from the Law and answering for our failure to comply with the Law, and instead won't be judged in that way and will be saved by Jesus/God's death (suicide sort of? Basically knowing you are going to die, and purposefully going ahead and dying and being killed) which paid the "Penalty of Death" for failure to comply with the Law.

The Greeks and Romans and numerous other cultures spread across the world though, did not seem to be familiar with these Laws or their penalties for their most part, and each had their own nation's laws and even laws perhaps that they might have found to be spiritual truths or consequences for their lives after death. These people would like balk at the idea or scoff at the suggestion that the Jewish Law was the only true Law from God, or even more skeptically view the claim that the Jewish Law was the only Law from God which Christ who was God through his death and the ending of his perishable life has voided and freed people from, so long as they say some things or do some things and avoid other things. The Greeks and Romans had some wacky ideas of their own at times, but accepting foreign and "mysterious" seeming exotic religions and cults was becoming increasingly popular among sections of the people and various colonies, and so the idea of basically putting one's life and afterlife in the hands of a savior who does all the work that we can't do ourselves, might have had just the right appeal for a people who may have felt there were just too many options and claims going around simultaneously while life was still so short and dangerous. Many people, as they died, accepted Christ as God and/or God's Son in order that they might be saved in their last moments. Then, for a long time, religion quickly moved into Christ's agents, the Martyrs and Saints of Christianity, to put in a good word on our behalf and help to save us since they were imagined to have the King's notice more than perhaps the scoundrels upon the Earth.

How deeply do you feel you accept and believe any of what you think and say? Does your feeling of sureness seem to fluctuate and waiver? What seems to increase the strength, and what seems to decrease it?

Why were the Jewish people supposedly the only ones to receive God's True Message, while all the other humans across the planet were forsaken, and their children forsaken, and so on, even to this day? That the Egyptians were lied to and not saved, that the Greeks were lied to and not saved, that the Romans were lied to and not saved, the Chinese, the Indians, the Native Americans, the Japanese, the whole world was lied to and not saved, just this one tiny ethnic group, and from this one tiny ethnic group, God exclusively arrives within them as a babe from a woman's birthing parts, and supposedly also says to his few compatriots "I have only been sent to the Children of Israel" or something like that, and then is within 30 years or so, killed. How can one put their whole confidence in this? What are the ways in which one can become confident in this, because it feels like looking off the edge of a building and being told to jump and that "trust me, it will be fine".

So there are a number of questions sort of hidden in the middle of these paragraphs and comments, and the main issues of concern have to do with:
What about all those other people, all these other people?
and
How does it sound to them or would it have sounded to them, why is it this way at all (if it is)
and also
How do you put your faith in such, and how could anyone really be asked to even, considering what is being asked of a person and what is at stake (and also the claims of the others)?

 

[Kenny]

14. is there only a particular name of God that is appropriate to use or consider or can other names be used (like the names used by Amorites),

LOL... I need to ask Him!

I think we get hung up on a law-type of mentality too many times. I remember someone who said, "The God that made that sun" and was delivered from his situation (have tried to find it on the internet with no success yet). People who don't know what to call Him do the best they can IMO.

God, Father, YWHW, Abba, Dad, Eloyhim, Great Spirit.

Are there some names I wouldn't call Him.... Baal, Devil, God of the Amorites, Dagon... I'm sure there are others.

Those gods demanded child sacrifices ... God wasn't into that - they were different gods. So there are "names" that are towards gods that are the antithesis of His desires and who He is. Certainly if we made something and then said "this is God"... He wouldn't appreciate it. -- Exodus 32: 2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

28. could you explain the thing about "I know what God wills" again (I am currently understanding it as feeling confident that you know God wants good for you and that you have the freedom to go about your life and actions however you want, so the knowing is mainly about knowing that God wants you to do and think certain things? Maybe I haven't quite grasped the meaning just yet, but if you could help elaborate on that specifically),
29. what does the Lord or God want from me or us and how do I know that is so or how can I trust such is true,

I don't remember the last time when someone asked me that question. Maybe because I teach it from the pulpit?

It would be impossible for me to list everything but the gist of of it all is: As a Last Will and New Testament, there are some things that God (Abba - Father) has always wanted for His creation. We can find His will in His word for most anything yet understanding, at the same time, that there are things that He just lets us decide.Certainly whether you want be an accountant or a lawyer, God would simply say "Whatever makes you happy--as long as you do it as unto me" (right heart and right reasons)

I think we could separate His will into three categories.

1. What God wants us to do towards our fellow man
2. What God wants to do towards us
3. What God wants us to do towards Him.

Certainly I won't hit everything but just remembering that love is the driving force it isn't hard to figure out:

What God wants us to do towards our fellow man

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Psalm 41:1 Blessed is he that considereth the poor
Mark 12:41 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He wants us to honor our parents, pray for each other, help people - In some cases, He will even tell you what He wants you to do for another person.

Believe the best, don't judge people (it is OK to judge actions - wrong is still wrong) - there is a difference between judging people vs people's actions.

And things like these. It is a matter of just reading and finding out.

What God wants to do towards us

Basically, it is like a woman who got married to a man. The moment they say "I DO" and become one, everything the husband has becomes hers. So everything that God has, He wants to give to us.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

He forgives, heals, saves, crowns, and strengthens us Psalm 103:2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits 3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; 4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies; 5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

He wants us to live in peace even in the midst of trouble: John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Basically, He just want to be involved in our lives and trust 1 Tim 6: in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

He corrects, He guides, He will actually help in our jobs (When I sold office equipment, He actually showed me where someone was going to buy a competitors product and he ended up buying mine)

Again, the list is endless (of course) - but if you find a a promise in scripture... then you know it is His will.

What God wants us to do towards Him.

Basically, just give honor when honor is due.

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Malachi 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour?
Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Don't take the credit when He is a part of it:

Deut. 8: 12 Lest when thou hast eaten and art full, and hast built goodly houses, and dwelt therein; 3 And when thy herds and thy flocks multiply, and thy silver and thy gold is multiplied, and all that thou hast is multiplied; 14 Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the Lord thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage;
... ...17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. 18 But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Worship is a conjunction of two words "Worth" and "Ship" or giving the vessel the worth that is due.

Again, thinking like a marriage, although the man does things out of love (not requiring anything) - it still a good thing when the wife honors the husband for what he has done. It isn't about the husband demanding it or trying to get praise, yet the praise is in order out of thanksgiving. We even teach our children to say "thank you".

BUT It has to be from the heart and not just the lips.




I know I haven't done this topic justice. I am, after all, a human being and not God.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

You've been doing very well though, regardless of not being God! So, in the great writing before this post of mine, you wrote about certain names you find inappropriate due to the way those names may have been used by some people. Do you believe those things they called upon were real beings that had actually asked them to kill their children, or that these were names they had invented and credited the killing of their children to? For example, Baal means "Lord" or even "Husband", almost like you how you mentioned things like a marriage, and Baal was also typically used in association with the storms and rains and thunders and all that, which we understand to be God's work (or has God just let things run by themselves and play out, like making a video game that has an automatic sort of system that is just doing whatever it is designed to do and not particularly God making it rain or deciding where every single rain drop falls and what each does?), so do you think if one is calling upon Lord or Kurios or whatever, and that these words were used by some people to refer to other concepts or things, and that these words were also used in acts we consider bad, that these become unavailable to us or that these refer only to these other beings or creatures when used? What determines who these terms are directed towards, and are these other things in your belief real beings that actually intercept or hear prayers and ask people to do things as well? Why do they want to suggest to people that they kill their own children? Was the God of the Bible guilty of such? Was the God of the Bible asking people in multiple cases to murder children and infants? Was it God or Baal who inspired Abraham to kill his son, or demanded that certain children and babies be mutilated, or who said that people are overjoyed by dashing babies against rocks or something?

How then, do we determine or distinguish that the words of the Bible are from God and not from the Baal (Lord/Husband) who suggests to people the killing of their children? Can't such a being, if it exists, pretend to be any other God or go by any other name, in order to suggest to people the killing of children or the appropriateness of killing of children? Even Jesus seems to be bothering the Jews when they asked him to simply wash his hands before he eats about why they don't kill their children as the scripture and law has commanded them to, but prefer instead to avoid killing their children by following their own traditions (which also tell them to wash their hands before they eat)?

These children who are all murdered and killed, whether by the followers of Baal or the followers of Adonai (also meaning Lord I think), where do you think these unbaptized innocents go? To a better place? So what if Baal or YHWH were actually saving them by having adults murder them en masse and dash their brains against rocks and whatever? Can you see how twisted it might get? Yet we have numerous verses showing not only followers of supposedly "other gods" being asked to do such or doing such, but we have commandments from "There is no other" God in the scriptures repeatedly commanding the killing and slaughter of innocent suckling infants, babies, children, even one's own children, even the children of the founder Abraham?

What do you think that is all about, what do you think that indicates, and how can you be confident that Baal ever asked for such, or that Adonai ever asked for such, or that Baal exists or doesn't exist, or that Adonai exists or doesn't exist, or that Baal isn't in fact the very same Adonai or interfering with scripture, or intercepting prayers, or whatever possibilities, even in the face of apparent evidence of such?

Why are such names off limits, if such things don't exist, or if such words are common, like "Lord", and that using terms like "Lord" aren't then intercepted or directed to the wrong number?

"Hello? God? Is That You?" "Yesss"

 

[Kenny]

I might have to splice and dice your last post as not only are they great questions but it would be difficult to answer (in the knowledge I have) and not exceed to word limit.

You've been doing very well though, regardless of not being God! So, in the great writing before this post of mine, you wrote about certain names you find inappropriate due to the way those names may have been used by some people. Do you believe those things they called upon were real beings that had actually asked them to kill their children, or that these were names they had invented and credited the killing of their children to?

I would say that there are spirits driving it. So these gods do represent a spirit being. Ultimately Satan was said to be "a murderer from the beginning John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So we don't find it odd that the sacrificing of children is part of that system.

As I mentioned before, Satan wants to imitate God but in a perverted way. So, when God says "the firstborn is mine" for service and life, Satan says "the firstborn is mine for sacrifice"--a truth that has been perverted in the worship of Baal.

So, yes, if is my belief that the spirit being requested the murder of children. No different from the demon that would say to my sister-in-law, as she crossed a certain bridge, "Jump and kill yourself". A murderer from the beginning

For example, Baal means "Lord" or even "Husband", almost like you how you mentioned things like a marriage, and Baal was also typically used in association with the storms and rains and thunders and all that, which we understand to be God's work (or has God just let things run by themselves and play out, like making a video game that has an automatic sort of system that is just doing whatever it is designed to do and not particularly God making it rain or deciding where every single rain drop falls and what each does?)...

so do you think if one is calling upon Lord or Kurios or whatever, and that these words were used by some people to refer to other concepts or things, and that these words were also used in acts we consider bad, that these become unavailable to us or that these refer only to these other beings or creatures when used? What determines who these terms are directed towards, and are these other things in your belief real beings that actually intercept or hear prayers and ask people to do things as well? Why do they want to suggest to people that they kill their own children?

Again, as you noted and applying within the understanding that I have learned and noted, there is always an attempt to imitate God - as an angel of light. So if He (God) is "The Father" and "husband" then Satan wants to imitate that which is true so he will create a reasonable facsimile of the same (though not the original) - a counterfeit- there is always a lie in it.

Husband/Father is correct, sacrifice children is a lie. (Which good father ever does that to his children?)

As far as "thunders et al". A combination of that which is spiritual and that which is just nature in process - what it was designed to do.

There are some created by Satan or one of his cohorts... Jerry O'Dell going to preach open-air style to 40,000 in India with 90%+ being Muslim or Hindu. A storm suddenly appears with the capacity to shut it down and he shouts, "In the Name of Jesus... STOP" and a hole appears over the event with no rain... a spiritual intervention.

or even Jesus when he told the disciple to cross the Sea of Galilee and all of a sudden a storm tries to stop him and his disciples and he responds to a spiritually induced storm "Peace, be still" and it stopped immediately.

Then you have the natural rain that is required for land and the living. Normal cold fronts, heat waves, seasons and life and living and normal storms.

Does Satan what to intercept true prayer? Absolutely. There was a reason God said don't consult the dead - an attempt to get answers or connect. Why? Because there are "familiar spirits"

Leviticus 19:31Regard not them that have familiar spirits,

Familiar spirits are demons that are familiar with a person who has the capacity to imitate the voice of that person and was around him/her during their lifetime. Their purpose is to make them believe that it is their loved one to deviate them from God's will. No longer to they seek God but rather they seek the manifestation of who they believe is their loved one.

Was the God of the Bible guilty of such? Was the God of the Bible asking people in multiple cases to murder children and infants?

No. I understand why people may think so because of limited information that is in the Bible, but archaeological and historical information gives us a better light. If we could look at those times within the context of no antibiotics, no penicillin, etc.

For an example - the Canaanites. They were known to be involved, no only in sodomy which included bestiality as well as the sacrificing of children.

What kind of infectious and contagious diseases would have been spreading because of their lifestyle? How would God stop it so that it didn't spread throughout the world?

Though the Bible doesn't mention the details but today we know that those types of situations can be real... is it possible that is the reason for (in some cases) killing all the animals? Was He trying to stop the eventual infection of the whole of humanity? I think so.

Was He also being merciful because He knew their hearts and that they would eventually go on a killing spree?

But, as I said, the Bible doesn't offer additional information so we can only hypothesize. What we do know is that God is slow to anger, quick in mercy, judges fairly and tries to change peoples hearts like when He sent Jonah to save a whole city.

I also liken it to the dropping of the two WWII bomb in Japan. The US had a decision, do we let Japan kill hundreds of thousands more like in the Nanking incident? Do we chance that Germany will use a bomb before us? Or do we drop the bomb, killing innocent children and people for the benefit of saving hundreds of thousands.

Was it God or Baal who inspired Abraham to kill his son, or demanded that certain children and babies be mutilated, or who said that people are overjoyed by dashing babies against rocks or something?

Most people miss the point with Abraham and say "You see? God was into killing innocent children"... a wrong application and an emphasis on something that God would never have let it be fulfilled.

The question is "WHY" did God ask Abraham to sacrifice His son and "WHY" did He stop him.

The whole of the event with Abraham is based on two principles:

1. Covenant because God always wants to work through man and legally must work through an
2. Seed time - harvest time principle.

God was trying to open the door for Him to be able to send The Word in form of a man that would die for the sins of mankind. Almost ALL of the event from three days before on was a picture of Jesus Christ including dying on the very same mountain that Isaac was going to be sacrificed. Some say a stone throw away in distance.

God needed a man "willing" to sow the life of his only begotten miracle son so that God would have the legal right to sow His only begotten miracle son. The act fulfilling of the killing Isaac was never part of the picture... it was Abraham opening the door for a future innocent Messiah that would willingly give his life for the world.

By Abraham planting the seed by his heart decision, he harvested the entrance of the Messiah. By the Messiah planting his life for others, He is harvesting the billions of souls that have believed on Him.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I might have to splice and dice your last post as not only are they great questions but it would be difficult to answer (in the knowledge I have) and not exceed to word limit.



I would say that there are spirits driving it. So these gods do represent a spirit being. Ultimately Satan was said to be "a murderer from the beginning John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So we don't find it odd that the sacrificing of children is part of that system.

As I mentioned before, Satan wants to imitate God but in a perverted way. So, when God says "the firstborn is mine" for service and life, Satan says "the firstborn is mine for sacrifice"--a truth that has been perverted in the worship of Baal.

So, yes, if is my belief that the spirit being requested the murder of children. No different from the demon that would say to my sister-in-law, as she crossed a certain bridge, "Jump and kill yourself". A murderer from the beginning



Again, as you noted and applying within the understanding that I have learned and noted, there is always an attempt to imitate God - as an angel of light. So if He (God) is "The Father" and "husband" then Satan wants to imitate that which is true so he will create a reasonable facsimile of the same (though not the original) - a counterfeit- there is always a lie in it.

Husband/Father is correct, sacrifice children is a lie. (Which good father ever does that to his children?)

As far as "thunders et al". A combination of that which is spiritual and that which is just nature in process - what it was designed to do.

There are some created by Satan or one of his cohorts... Jerry O'Dell going to preach open-air style to 40,000 in India with 90%+ being Muslim or Hindu. A storm suddenly appears with the capacity to shut it down and he shouts, "In the Name of Jesus... STOP" and a hole appears over the event with no rain... a spiritual intervention.

or even Jesus when he told the disciple to cross the Sea of Galilee and all of a sudden a storm tries to stop him and his disciples and he responds to a spiritually induced storm "Peace, be still" and it stopped immediately.

Then you have the natural rain that is required for land and the living. Normal cold fronts, heat waves, seasons and life and living and normal storms.

Does Satan what to intercept true prayer? Absolutely. There was a reason God said don't consult the dead - an attempt to get answers or connect. Why? Because there are "familiar spirits"

Leviticus 19:31Regard not them that have familiar spirits,

Familiar spirits are demons that are familiar with a person who has the capacity to imitate the voice of that person and was around him/her during their lifetime. Their purpose is to make them believe that it is their loved one to deviate them from God's will. No longer to they seek God but rather they seek the manifestation of who they believe is their loved one.




No. I understand why people may think so because of limited information that is in the Bible, but archaeological and historical information gives us a better light. If we could look at those times within the context of no antibiotics, no penicillin, etc.

For an example - the Canaanites. They were known to be involved, no only in sodomy which included bestiality as well as the sacrificing of children.

What kind of infectious and contagious diseases would have been spreading because of their lifestyle? How would God stop it so that it didn't spread throughout the world?

Though the Bible doesn't mention the details but today we know that those types of situations can be real... is it possible that is the reason for (in some cases) killing all the animals? Was He trying to stop the eventual infection of the whole of humanity? I think so.

Was He also being merciful because He knew their hearts and that they would eventually go on a killing spree?

But, as I said, the Bible doesn't offer additional information so we can only hypothesize. What we do know is that God is slow to anger, quick in mercy, judges fairly and tries to change peoples hearts like when He sent Jonah to save a whole city.

I also liken it to the dropping of the two WWII bomb in Japan. The US had a decision, do we let Japan kill hundreds of thousands more like in the Nanking incident? Do we chance that Germany will use a bomb before us? Or do we drop the bomb, killing innocent children and people for the benefit of saving hundreds of thousands.



Most people miss the point with Abraham and say "You see? God was into killing innocent children"... a wrong application and an emphasis on something that God would never have let it be fulfilled.

The question is "WHY" did God ask Abraham to sacrifice His son and "WHY" did He stop him.

The whole of the event with Abraham is based on two principles:

1. Covenant because God always wants to work through man and legally must work through an
2. Seed time - harvest time principle.

God was trying to open the door for Him to be able to send The Word in form of a man that would die for the sins of mankind. Almost ALL of the event from three days before on was a picture of Jesus Christ including dying on the very same mountain that Isaac was going to be sacrificed. Some say a stone throw away in distance.

God needed a man "willing" to sow the life of his only begotten miracle son so that God would have the legal right to sow His only begotten miracle son. The act fulfilling of the killing Isaac was never part of the picture... it was Abraham opening the door for a future innocent Messiah that would willingly give his life for the world.

By Abraham planting the seed by his heart decision, he harvested the entrance of the Messiah. By the Messiah planting his life for others, He is harvesting the billions of souls that have believed on Him.

Could you elaborate a little more on the Abraham opening for the Messiah idea for me please, I'd like to understand that idea more and how it connects to and plays in with the Jesus events.

You wrote:
"What kind of infectious and contagious diseases would have been spreading because of their lifestyle? How would God stop it so that it didn't spread throughout the world?"

Well, in the Bible, God takes the lives of certain Egyptian children without asking human beings to go in and murder them with their own hands. That might have then not seemed like the people were just justifying their violent genocidal mass murder with claims that God commanded it of them, and instead it would simply be the case that God took those lives by whatever means, such as a disaster or plague or whatever like God had done in other cases, but instead in this case God asked human beings to slay every single person with their own hands, and when they failed to comply, they were seemingly punished also.

Now, if the Baalite types had won, and they were telling me the story of how their child killing was justified, because of maybe a disease or something, that it was mercy etc, why are their hypothetical excuses not any different from the justifications of people who justify the commands for slaughter of babies, when God could just as easily slaughter those babies via some "human hands off" method from Nature as before?

So you think that these spirit beings can manipulate and control and influence and change weather? Do you have any ideas regarding the mechanisms behind this tremendous seeming power? How can we tell when it is God and when it is other spirits? Are the spirits similar creatures to God, since both are called "spirits" I think?

I like the story about the hole in the storm, is there any video of that or a video of people talking about it at least? That should have been a pretty cool miracle to witness. I don't doubt such things, but then again, if these evil beings can manipulate the weather, what if they pulled the stunt in order to creature confusion in some way, or they were Christian spirits doing it, and then spirits of other religions might pull other stunts, leaving people basically at the beginning of not knowing what is going on or what to do or who to believe?

Is there any way that we can really be certain that the orders to kill babies given to Saul or whatever were not just lies and propaganda and not from God? The Qur'an for example (which Christians must think is a counterfeit made by Satan), says that God did not command people to kill children or to go into those nations with violence, but that those people did so because they were intended on violence and cruelty (that they were bad, and that God didn't command them to do that).

How come or how did you come to the idea or notion that the Bible is wholly the word of God really? Was it because you grew up with it mainly or did something else happen which made you think that it is specifically truly God's Word whereas the other scriptures and writings are wrong and bad in comparison?

It seems to be an important requirement in making sense of Christ to also make sense of or accept the Bible, and that when people doubt so much about it as valid, it may act as a kind of blockage towards believing in the things claimed of Christ. In other words, if one doesn't even believe in the Bible, how can you go any further? How does one come to believe in the Bible then?

 

[Kenny]

I like the story about the hole in the storm, is there any video of that or a video of people talking about it at least? That should have been a pretty cool miracle to witness. I don't doubt such things, but then again, if these evil beings can manipulate the weather, what if they pulled the stunt in order to creature confusion in some way, or they were Christian spirits doing it, and then spirits of other religions might pull other stunts, leaving people basically at the beginning of not knowing what is going on or what to do or who to believe?

Hindsight... should have never mentioned it. It was a personal friend of mine so I trust his report but have no video of it. It was before the actual event started and he said it so spontaneously that even he was taken aback with what happened. It was before cell phones video capabilities.

Sorry. I will stick to "verifiable", otherwise it is just hearsay.

Could you elaborate a little more on the Abraham opening for the Messiah idea for me please, I'd like to understand that idea more and how it connects to and plays in with the Jesus events.

Sure...

When God said,"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.", in essence He placed the boundaries for operating in the earth legally. It had to be through man - so you find God making blood covenant with man again and again to operate. So when man sows a faith act - it activated God's covenant. When Jesus said "Go wash your blind eyes in the pool to receive your sight" (paraphrased) - the blind man actually had to seed his action of going to activate God's promise.

Examples of seed to harvest (much like the concept of Karma):

1. Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
2. 2 Corinthians 9:10 He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness.
3. 2 Samuel 24:25 And David built there an altar unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the Lord was intreated for the land, and the plague was stayed from Israel.

There are many examples. But faith requires an action... if there is no action - no seed - then there is no harvest. Even the principle of the Jewish tithe is a seedtime and harvest concept.

In reference to Abraham, God needed the legal entrance to have The Word come as a man because any other way would be a violation of the very spiritual laws He established. God needed a blood-covenant action by a man to get a harvest into the earth.

Jesus said of Abraham, John 8:56 our father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. In other words
AMPC Your forefather Abraham was extremely happy at the hope and prospect of seeing My day (My incarnation); and he did see it and was delighted. - He actually saw the very purpose of his actions - he saw the very incarnation and resurrection as a result of his seed.

So. Abraham's seed offering was the covenant faith action that opened the door for God to insert The Word into the earth.

Hope I was cogent in the explanation.

 

[Kenny]

To be honest, the time of the Mosaic Law is hard to swallow. By nature, no one likes any type of killing... though some times we may see it as necessary.

God definitely does not enjoy it either, IMV.

Ezekiel 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

And, again, I don't and won't have all the answers since it isn't all specified in scriptures. It remains personal viewpoint in the light of the Gospel of Jesus who, even to the worst person, didn't say "Kill them all" but rathe "I have come to save that which is lost".

Well, in the Bible, God takes the lives of certain Egyptian children without asking human beings to go in and murder them with their own hands. That might have then not seemed like the people were just justifying their violent genocidal mass murder with claims that God commanded it of them, and instead it would simply be the case that God took those lives by whatever means, such as a disaster or plague or whatever like God had done in other cases, but instead in this case God asked human beings to slay every single person with their own hands, and when they failed to comply, they were seemingly punished also.

Here, IMV, is how I see it. You would understand it, if I am not mistaken, as karma.

Exodus 1: 22 And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.

So much so, that Moses was put into the river so that he would survive this Holocaust.

In essence, Pharaoh had brought the judgment on himself by all the evil he had done to the descendants of Abraham.

And again, before the last plague, the Pharaoh said to Moses... "if I see you again, I will kill you" (Paraphrased)

Personally, I wonder if it was God that did it or simply that He removed His mercy and grace because of the hardness of Pharaoh's heart and the Devil did it. Additionally, had it not happened, what would have been Pharaoh's next step?

Exodus 12:23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Notice that God holds back the destroyer (as He did with Job). So, technically, It was Pharaoh's actions that removed God's protection as Pharaoh opened the door for the Destroyer to have control over Egypt. I still believe it was God's mercy and grace that prevented the Destroyer from going beyond that point.

Here is the hew of Jesus statement of "It is the thief that comes but to steal, kill and destroy but I have come to give live and that more abundantly" John 10;10.

Even the Egyptians could put blood on their doorposts.Anybody could have had the destroyer pass from killing their first born.

Is there any way that we can really be certain that the orders to kill babies given to Saul or whatever were not just lies and propaganda and not from God? The Qur'an for example (which Christians must think is a counterfeit made by Satan), says that God did not command people to kill children or to go into those nations with violence, but that those people did so because they were intended on violence and cruelty (that they were bad, and that God didn't command them to do that).

Hard questions... and I don't have all the answers. But, yes, God did command them to kill
1st Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ”

It doesn't say why. I can only assume (and you know how that breaks down). My supposition is beastiality, but I do not know. Hard scripture to swallow. We rest in the reality that God understands all things and is always just.


Side notes... I believe children go to Heaven.

How come or how did you come to the idea or notion that the Bible is wholly the word of God really? Was it because you grew up with it mainly or did something else happen which made you think that it is specifically truly God's Word whereas the other scriptures and writings are wrong and bad in comparison?

It seems to be an important requirement in making sense of Christ to also make sense of or accept the Bible, and that when people doubt so much about it as valid, it may act as a kind of blockage towards believing in the things claimed of Christ. In other words, if one doesn't even believe in the Bible, how can you go any further? How does one come to believe in the Bible then?

No, I didn't grow up with it although I did know the story of Jesus. I was a Bible illiterate.

Personally, I started my journey by approaching it on three points:

1. Either the Bible is true or false. I will start with it being true and test the sucker. I will find out soon enough if it is true.
2. My life is going from bad to worse, I might as well try something new
3. It won't hurt me to confess Jesus as my Lord.

Miracles began happening immediately and I'm still "testing the sucker" and still find it to hold true.

But why is it true? (In my view)

• Its prophetic inherency
• Its timelessness in application
• Its message that is consistent throughout centuries and in harmony with each other even when they did not know what the other person wrote.

I am not sure exactly how one can "go any further". I don't think the first thing is "I have to know the Bible is true". It is said that "It is the preaching of the Gospel that is the power unto salvation" - not the preaching that "The bible is true".

Additionally, it is said "The Holy Spirit draws" the person. So I think that it is God who is always drawing them to the message. I would think that it is the constant rejecting of the message and the Holy Spirit that eventually leads one to "I don't believe it" rather than simply "I don't believe the Bible is true- therefore I don't believe the message" (Not that it couldn't happen that way, it is my supposition.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I'm glad you mentioned the hole storm thing, I believe in it and that it happened, even though its hearsay from your friend, I think it sounds like something real, I've seen stuff like that happen myself, so I totally believe it, and it would not have led me to all my interesting thoughts and questions as well (which I hope you've answered above, regardless of regretting mentioning that).

I think that Christianity is a religion where miracles are basically the most important aspect of it. That the stories of Jesus in the Gospels are also at this point just "Hearsay" about things, things that people now believe which can not actually be verified at all, just like I believe in the story of the hole in the storm being a true thing that happened, because you said it to me, and you yourself never even saw it, but heard it from a trusted friend, so I believe all that and your trusted friend, just because I trust that you know them and know they wouldn't just make that up out of nowhere.

So that is how it works, that is also possibly how Christianity might have worked at first, but at this point, its been a long time, a lot of "telephone" going on, to the point that people even doubt if Jesus even ever existed or walked upon the Earth, or if he was Apollonius of Tyana or some other person or a bunch of people all mixed up into one character, or if Judas was real, or Joseph was real, or any of them, let alone the miracles!

So your story was important, because stories like that are actually what can help people to believe, to become filled with faith, because it is a story about a contemporary or recent demonstration of the power of the name JESUS for example. It is much more believable or trustworthy seeming than a story that is now around 2000 years old, told and retold by people we aren't even talking to or don't even know at all really.

 

[Kenny]

I'm glad you mentioned the hole storm thing, I believe in it and that it happened, even though its hearsay from your friend, I think it sounds like something real, I've seen stuff like that happen myself, so I totally believe it, and it would not have led me to all my interesting thoughts and questions as well (which I hope you've answered above, regardless of regretting mentioning that).

I think that Christianity is a religion where miracles are basically the most important aspect of it. That the stories of Jesus in the Gospels are also at this point just "Hearsay" about things, things that people now believe which can not actually be verified at all, just like I believe in the story of the hole in the storm being a true thing that happened, because you said it to me, and you yourself never even saw it, but heard it from a trusted friend, so I believe all that and your trusted friend, just because I trust that you know them and know they wouldn't just make that up out of nowhere.

So that is how it works, that is also possibly how Christianity might have worked at first, but at this point, its been a long time, a lot of "telephone" going on, to the point that people even doubt if Jesus even ever existed or walked upon the Earth, or if he was Apollonius of Tyana or some other person or a bunch of people all mixed up into one character, or if Judas was real, or Joseph was real, or any of them, let alone the miracles!

So your story was important, because stories like that are actually what can help people to believe, to become filled with faith, because it is a story about a contemporary or recent demonstration of the power of the name JESUS for example. It is much more believable or trustworthy seeming than a story that is now around 2000 years old, told and retold by people we aren't even talking to or don't even know at all really.

I would agree whole-heartedly

 

[Kenny]

10. what happens to people who choose gods other than the Lord you described above,

That is a hard question but a good one.

The reason why it is hard is because it places a flawed man in the position of judging the heart of the person -- a position relegated only to God.

Additionally, I have heard many stories of people who were on the way to Hell (yes, I believe it is a real place) who on the way down shouted "JESUS" and a light came down and pulled him/her back up. Having "come alive again" on their death bed, they gave their lives to Jesus.

So, apparently, there are moments of a change that is still possible after death. The Bible doesn't mention it so it isn't verifiable per se. I certainly am not going to try it to find out!

Can it happen even if they don't come alive again from the dead? I don't know.

How far does the mercy of God go? How much did the resurrection of Jesus accomplish that we still don't comprehend?

Certainly there are scriptures that go both ways:

Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

1 John 4:7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.

Can someone love within their own law? Did they somehow reach God's love

Yet on the other side;

Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is noother name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

But can that salvation happen immediately after death? God knows.

However that may be, certainly it is right to give grave consideration on which Lord one is choosing since we acknowledge their is the god of this world, Satan.

I always say that I want to get as close to God as possible an not "how far away can I get from God and still be safe".

Loving what Jesus said, "Matthew 9:12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick."

i was sick (spiritually, mentally (stinking thinking) and physically)

The Gospel is for those who are sick (spiritual, mentally or physically). When one recognizes their need, it is still important IMV to make sure we are going to the right doctor. If we become our own doctor, I believe there will be a problem in the time to come.

Certainly, and without hesitation, I believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father but through Him. I will also acknowledge that I have processed my life thought-processes and believe it is true and therefore would have a problem with there being multiple ways.

But it isn't I who is sitting on the Throne to decides who gets the gift of righteousness and who doesn't. I am happy to say "God knows better than I".

 

[Kenny]

Here are my answers for my current beliefs and personal status:

1. Who is the Lord,
A: There is only One Master, having no name, going by any true or appropriate name and accurate description.

2. who are the Other Gods or Options,
A: Choose any name, so long as the concept is correct, then it refers to the same True One.

3. How does one choose or prove they have chosen the Lord,
A: They must genuinely believe in the correct concept, and they know it is correct by careful reasoning, and ideally should also experience miraculous things.

4. who is the Devil,
A: Most people attribute to the Devil things that should only rightfully be attributed to the Power of One, otherwise the Devil is just one of many evildoers.

5. what are the works of the Devil,
A: The same as any Devil or evildoer, lying, deceiving, cheating, defrauding, making mischief for people, plotting harm, and designing agendas to harm

6. how were the works of the Devil revealed or exposed and
A: Anyone can use reasoning, history, evidence, and other methods to expose the works of evil and harmful beings and the destructiveness of their actions.

7. how were they destroyed,
A: The Devil and Devils (of various sorts, including human beings) are active to this day, and so only exposure sometimes helps to combat their plots/acts.



8. what are demons exactly,
A: There was a belief among people that diseases and mental illness were caused by intelligent beings inhabiting the body and causing symptoms/behaviors.

9. what is the form/appearance/activities of the Devil and of the demons,
A: The original or very early writings at times made them out to appear like a low fine mist or gaseous, cloud-like puffs and slithering smokes in appearance. Their activities were said to be the causing of diseases or madness and violence, as well as whispering and seducing people to do wrong and evil acts.

10. what happens to people who choose gods other than the Lord you described above,
A: Whoever/Whatever has the true power and influence and cares will determine what occurs to anyone for anything, and so its possible nothing happens, or otherwise something happens, it remains unknown, but generally it was eventually expected that anyone who has done wrong and spread lies or followed evil beings or falsehoods and committed atrocities of various sorts will be punished for it and suffer for it, a punishment imposed by some authority greater than the false or evil beings they thought were their saviors or patrons/matrons.

11. how do we know we are dealing with the Lord and not some imposter or that it is right,
A: One never knows what they are dealing with for certain, but can direct their mind towards a better concept and hope for the best.

12. what form do the demons take today and how are they followed or worshipped or harming people today and
A: If demons exist, then they harm people by whispering bad suggestions to them, and creating plots and agendas they inspire powerful and influential people with, but the demons that are responsible for mental illness and physical illnesses are now called into question or suspect as an archaism of outmoded thinking and possibly ignorance about viruses, medicine, and internal chemical issues.

13. how did they do so in the past in comparison,
A: No difference, except that it might have been more prevalent and common to purposefully attempt to feed them at temples, in forests, or in relation to altars and idols with food placed in front and left to rot, the methane gas and other vaporous biproducts of which were consumed by these gaseous beings just like we are made of carbon matter and eat solid foods which we break down in our bodies.

14. is there only a particular name of God that is appropriate to use or consider or can other names be used (like the names used by Amorites),
A: God is nameless and all the best names belong to God, so any name can be used, as names are just sounds ultimately, but should mean or refer to a proper or accurate concept of whatever is or would be truly Ultimate.

15. is it the concept we have in our mind that counts or our activities or ritual performances or name we use or what exactly counts to indicate our party/choice,
A: What determines which factions or party you belong to are all of the above, but most especially the concept you hold and the type of ritual performance or worship you perform based on that concept and towards that concept you hold as God and God's Cosmological Hierarchy or the System you believe in.

16. how do we live a good life,
A: Master the roughly 15 or so waking hours in a day, the environment you deal with the most, and focus on strategies using clear reasoning to establish what is best and why and should lead to the best here and now most likely (in all probability) and potentially later (by covering as many bases as possible without breaking rules or stepping on toes as much as possible).

17. what happens after we die and why do you think so,
A: Death is the cessation of all information and input, literally Nothing happens and you cease experiencing, thus from your perspective you are automatically skipped forward no matter how long it takes to your next moment of experience whenever that might occur in infinite time or possibility. I think so due to language and logic.

18. how do we attain a good afterlife,
A: By doing what we think is justifiably the best and avoiding evil as much as possible, to do good, worship God devoutly, help those in need and the innocent, and work justice and righteousness and mercy throughout the world and to all creatures that we can, reducing anxiety and suffering, increasing all benefit and speaking what is right and true always when possible or reasonable.

19. what benefit is choosing the Lord (what do I get out of it, how do I know, and what if anything do you think the Lord gets out of it?),
A: If one chooses something unreal and without power or inferior, there would be a lower chance of their success, but if someone chooses something that is real, powerful, and capable, or even proven, then there would be a higher chance to succeed or make appeals to such a powerful intelligence with the capability to save us or bring us back.

20. who is Jesus,
A: Jesus is a man, as well as a character that people have told stories about, and I have little trust in stories about long ago told by ancient people.

21. what was the role and duty or job of Jesus,
A: To bring the Jewish people the Good News and correct what might be perceived as a gradual degraded state of their religion, tradition, & understanding.

23. why was Jesus necessary or put into play,
A: Jesus was not necessary, and God only brought Jesus into play as an assistance to help people to learn and improve.

24. could Jesus have failed, could the Lord or God fail or be defeated or overcome,
A: No God that anyone should put their faith in or believe in should be able to lose or be out of total control. God didn't fail, but created Christianity.

25. is it right to worship Jesus
A: No. Even if Jesus is considered to be God and God incarnated, it is God and not some body or form or inhabited or possessed thing that should receive worship.

26. is Jesus the Lord or God and is the Lord God and are there any other Lords or Gods that are real or actual or powerful at all,
A: No and No. Jesus is a body, some body, a form, and all forms, even invisible forms, can be eradicated by the all-powerful Supreme Intelligence, the only true and real Power or God. Everything else is equal in comparison, equally powerless, equally submissive, equally incapable of rebellion or overcoming the overwhelming and singular power of God.

27. what should I do in a day, every day, or how often should I do whatever (and what would that be exactly, step by step) to achieve the best now and later,
A: Do everything you can do to master a day, investing in this life and now and later, and the afterlife as well, through hygiene, exercises, worship, good eating, beautifying yourself and your life and environment and surroundings and having pleasant and thoughtful interactions, spreading grace and truth and relief, being generous, and being undeniably righteous, virtuous, humorous, noble, and great, as much as one understands true greatness, to pursue it in everything, particularly the small things which often get neglected or thought of as nothing. Great influence, fame, and prestige may not necessarily be what earns one the best merit, and one may actually be at risk in such positions and tested in terribly difficult ways and taken to account for their actions more harshly due to the capacity to do some big things or for forgetting to help or see the little things or little people.

I need to take time to look these over.

 

[Kenny]

@The Artis Magistra

20. who is Jesus,
21. what was the role and duty or job of Jesus,
23. why was Jesus necessary or put into play,

In the Beginning:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Ps 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

So many people say that God is omnipotent, which He is, but misinterpret the application of the same. In His omnipotence He decided to give dominion, authority, indeed the world to man. To say He can't do that is to say He is not omnipotent.

In His declaration - He, in its application, had determined that the only "legal" entry into this world, to operate in this world MUST be through a man. (Mankind). So God's Spirit worked in conjunction with and through man.

This is the very crux of the reason why demons want to possess man and work through man. So they can have a legal authority to operate in this world

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Satan, understanding this reality, had caused Adam to rebel and sin against God. In following another spirit, another way and rejecting God's way, he handed the authority to Satan because now he follow and worked in conjunction with another spirit.

But Satan worked it through "another door" and not the door of the sheepfold by being a man.

Who is Jesus? Pre-incarnate manifestation of Jesus, He is "The Word" portion of God. He speaks what the Father has determined. He is the very word of God's power (Heb 1:3). He gives the very life of what we see (Isaiah 55:11). The Word is the very framework to what we see. Heb 11:3. He is the very light and life to everything. John 1:4

Why was it necessary to put Jesus into play?

The Word had to become flesh to legally operate in this world so that He wouldn't violate HIs own dictates making Him a liar. He had to become flesh so that He could fight for the authority and future of humanity and this world. It was a rematch as the second Adam for the title of who was going to be King and Lord. He came into play to begin the process of order by giving man the power to once again to influence the world and exercise authority of bringing God's Kingdom into existence in this world "You kingdom come, your will be done" - Jesus.

It was necessary to take the authority that Satan had acquired and give it back to man (mankind). To take the keys of death, Hell and the grave to give life and life more abundantly.

It was the role of Jesus - to become the substitute Lamb of God for the remission of sins satisfying all righteous judgment so that people would be forever united with God once again.

Now, seated on the throne, Jesus has complete authority as God and the right to operate on earth as man.

 

[Kenny]

How many religions are there, or "paths" which you think are legitimate, and where do you think each of the available life-paths or religions leads a person as an outcome in this life and the next?

Maybe I could say this differently? Like the saying "All paths lead to Rome"... could I say that ultimately, even within the many religions offered, it eventually leads to "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me"? (my musings)

So, for an example, If we believe in reincarnation of multiple born again experiences, should we not have many more people having reach perfection? And if we look at today's society after thousands of years, could we not say that "I don't see anyone reaching that perfection and if we only have "maybe" 1 dozen possible candidates (at this rate) it will take an eternity to get everybody there? There must be a better way to reach truth and life where one born-again experience is all that is needed where our spirits are recreated into the image of God.

Of, if we believe that we will eventually reach Nirvana, (same concept) - shouldn't there be more people who reached the level of the Buddha? Where in one born-again experience makes us one with God.

Or if in the Muslims belief of "In the hereafter, we go to Jannah (Paradise) or Jahannam (Hell-fire) depends upon the deeds that we did in worldly life" - just looking at myself (which I would say I am normal) - who would get to Heaven by works? When by the work Jesus Christ (the anointed one) on the Cross purchased the gift so that the gift is "not by works lest any man should boast, it is the gift of God".

So, I came up with the conclusion that it isn't that there are "many ways" but that in the attempt to follow the "many ways (which have great truths in them", ultimately they lead to the only way.

This question arose as I was reading your writing above in your latest response which mentioned the Law, a Law which was apparently only mainly known to the literate among the Jewish people perhaps, and not known to the Nations, or even considered very valid or important by most anyone throughout history, except perhaps Jewish people (and especially after Jesus and Christianity, but just as soon as it became important to people and spread across the world, it was also by then considered mostly something which people could rightfully ignore and put aside in favor of the Christian beliefs and laws and ideas which seemed to perhaps differ, and when becoming very modern now, even differ from the laws of Christian communities just a few years ago, with even more being ignored and put aside entirely).

The vast majority of the world and history and humans in existence have not known the Ancient Jewish Law, and have not known Judaism. What they all knew was the religion of their own forefathers and cultures, the traditions which had developed or changed over time as they separated out and spread across the world (according to genetic studies, from out of East Africa, after being in South Africa, then moving up to the East, then crossing over maybe through Arabia, and spreading from there

Although it is true that the Law was basically only known by the Jewish people, none-the-less every culture has some sort of law. In fact thou shalt not commit murder is a basic understanding in any culture (except maybe two that I know of... one being cannibalism). But whatever law one creates, it becomes a law unto oneself and ultimately one is still found wanting. IMV

So rather than "ignore", which I think has some negative connotations, I feel like "fulfilled" might be a better word. As the Apostle Paul said, "In this is the law fulfilled, love God and love your neighbor" (paraphrased).

Outward rites can be accomplished without have a inward heart that is truly sincere. Thus God said "I will write my law in their hearts" after He got tired of all the rituals without heart transformation.

So when Jesus fulfilled and completed the ritual aspects (such as the sacrificing of the lamb which represented His life) - it was no longer required.

. All non-African types of humans are supposedly coming out from one genetic group, one ancestor set from out of East Africa according to these interesting studies).

I would agree.... I would probably say that even "African types" also came out of East Africa.

The earliest belief systems are imagined to have resembled those of the Animists, people believing the whole world was living and thinking in some fashion, or like everything was an animal or like themselves in some way, which would turn towards increasingly symbolic thinking which would anthropomorphize things, which led to apparent polytheism, but also monotheism (which may have pre-existed a lot of these things or existed concurrently and at the same time because of ideas that "there is no separation" and so The One Thing with no distinctions made might appear Living and ourselves a part of it, like how we don't separate every little finger from the hand as not really controlled by our hand and our hand as not really controlled by our mind etc).

Trying to "recreate" obviously contains a margin of error. However, I do believe that monotheism existed concurrently.

The idea presented in the New Testament almost seems to be that all these generations of people, however noble they may have been, all were imprisoned or existing after their deaths in Hades (Sheol) or the Underworld (which many of them seemed to speak of as well), and that they could not leave even the best parts of the Underworld (like the Bosom of Abraham section), except with the assistance of God descending into the realm as Christ and in Christ to give them a chance at the resurrection or the new world and new life (actually, they all may have been there waiting for the resurrection and were not going to remain under the Earth forever, just until the Day of Judgment, so that Christ/God descended to them to bring them and preach and teach the Good News so they could do whatever they needed to do or say whatever they needed to say (what do you think it was exactly?) to get them a good place after they are raised from the dead on Judgment Day. The Church to this day (like the Catholics and Orthodox and all that) insist that Christ/God did not descend all the way down to the depths, but only arrived to the good people, perhaps at the highest point of Hades, the Bosom of Abraham perhaps. I saw a video about it or something and it seemed important to them to insist that Jesus did not go down deep to the evil people or non-believers, but just the good and decent people up at the top.

Yes and yes and who knows

Yes, in the Christian understanding there are/were two places - Paradise and Hell. Where people were held, one for the day of Judgement and the other for the resurrection (Bosom of Abraham).

Personally, the four sections of Hell and whether Jesus went just to Paradise or some other level, ends up being irrelevant. The reason there are so many viewpoints for these interpretations is simply because there is not enough evidence to convince any one side that the other is wrong.

Things that are agreed on is:

1. He did go and preach to those in the Bosom of Abraham to ransom and bring into everlasting life those who lived righteously and those who believe in the coming Messiah.
2. He did go to the lower parts of the earth (what part is not really specific)

Personally, whether right or wrong I do not know nor does it change or alter what He did, I think He did suffer in Hell before He preached to those in the Bosom of Abraham.

The Muslims say that Jesus is the Messiah sent to the people to correct their religion, and they attempted to kill him but he was saved from death and returned to God, but was not God and could never be God (as no man is God or could ever be God or God incarnate, and that God is far beyond such things and has no need for such things).

Yes... they do. They believe someone else died on the cross. I personally find that hard to believe. If, as it is written, the Pharisees were there and the record is correct, it would be very difficult to have someone else on the cross since they not only condemned him, but walked with him all the way through the crucifixion.

The New Testament says that the Jewish people will be judged by their Law, but the writings attributed to Paul seem to suggest that by taking Jesus as our savior, we are saved from the Law and answering for our failure to comply with the Law, and instead won't be judged in that way and will be saved by Jesus/God's death (suicide sort of? Basically knowing you are going to die, and purposefully going ahead and dying and being killed) which paid the "Penalty of Death" for failure to comply with the Law.

I always say the God is the judge and any time I try to take the position of judging the eternity of a soul, I am usurping and even attempting to remove God from His seat and placing myself there in His stead. Something that Satan tried to do albeit unsuccessfully. I don't want that position.

I wouldn't say "suicide" with its connotation no more than someone throwing himself on a grenade to save his brothers would be considered a suicide. Jesus said "No man takes my life... I give it freely". (paraphrased). Not a suicide but rather a saving of humanity.

The very act of all the sacrifices placed in the Law was to cover the sins of not having completed the Law.

Not sure if I answered all the points here as I am not sure exactly what the question was

 

[Kenny]

The Greeks and Romans and numerous other cultures spread across the world though, did not seem to be familiar with these Laws or their penalties for their most part, and each had their own nation's laws and even laws perhaps that they might have found to be spiritual truths or consequences for their lives after death. These people would like balk at the idea or scoff at the suggestion that the Jewish Law was the only true Law from God, or even more skeptically view the claim that the Jewish Law was the only Law from God which Christ who was God through his death and the ending of his perishable life has voided and freed people from, so long as they say some things or do some things and avoid other things. The Greeks and Romans had some wacky ideas of their own at times, but accepting foreign and "mysterious" seeming exotic religions and cults was becoming increasingly popular among sections of the people and various colonies, and so the idea of basically putting one's life and afterlife in the hands of a savior who does all the work that we can't do ourselves, might have had just the right appeal for a people who may have felt there were just too many options and claims going around simultaneously while life was still so short and dangerous. Many people, as they died, accepted Christ as God and/or God's Son in order that they might be saved in their last moments. Then, for a long time, religion quickly moved into Christ's agents, the Martyrs and Saints of Christianity, to put in a good word on our behalf and help to save us since they were imagined to have the King's notice more than perhaps the scoundrels upon the Earth.

Yes... every culture had a law unto themselves with their own sense of penalties for failing. Yes... the offer of the gift convinced many that it was "the way" as it was also called.

As people can do, they take a truth and then try to make something more or less that what it actually meant and thus Jesus said "You say" vs. "but I say" and corrected their religious thinking.

I personally don't subscribe to the religious belief of "put sin a good word on our behalf" because it is quite unnecessary when Jesus Himself presents me faultless and with joy before the throne. Why do I need another "good word on my behalf" when the King of Kings is already putting in the good word?

How deeply do you feel you accept and believe any of what you think and say? Does your feeling of sureness seem to fluctuate and waiver? What seems to increase the strength, and what seems to decrease it?

I am always open for correct. In fact you statement of "fear that which is able to destroy your soul" was a corrective moment for me. (for which I thank you for)

But my faith in the work of the Cross, the resurrection, the life to come, and all the intricacies of the end-time... does not waiver. I suppose it may increase as I see it unfolding before my eyes.

Why were the Jewish people supposedly the only ones to receive God's True Message, while all the other humans across the planet were forsaken, and their children forsaken, and so on, even to this day? That the Egyptians were lied to and not saved, that the Greeks were lied to and not saved, that the Romans were lied to and not saved, the Chinese, the Indians, the Native Americans, the Japanese, the whole world was lied to and not saved, just this one tiny ethnic group, and from this one tiny ethnic group, God exclusively arrives within them as a babe from a woman's birthing parts, and supposedly also says to his few compatriots "I have only been sent to the Children of Israel" or something like that, and then is within 30 years or so, killed. How can one put their whole confidence in this? What are the ways in which one can become confident in this, because it feels like looking off the edge of a building and being told to jump and that "trust me, it will be fine".

I wouldn't subscribe to the position that the rest of the world necessarily "is not saved'. Again, I am not the judge and God judges righteously and not un-righteously.

I also cannot claim to understand all the nuances of every situation.

Some things are just logical... If I carved a statue and then said "this is god" - obviously I lied to myself on purpose for I carved it, made it and then said "it is god".

Yet there were American Indians who understood that there was a "Great Spirit".

Yes, Jesus "first" came for the "Children of Israel"... and yet he also spoke of "another fold" and even in his 3 year traveling ministered to two that were outside of the Jewish faith and the whole of Samaria who were shunned by the Jewish people.

Yes, first because they were support to be priests to the whole of the world and will fulfill that destiny in the end-times... but God never forsook the rest of the world even when Peter said "Of a truth I now see that God has no exception of people" (paraphrased) and again Jesus who said "God rains on the just and the unjust". (everyone included)

So there are a number of questions sort of hidden in the middle of these paragraphs and comments, and the main issues of concern have to do with:
What about all those other people, all these other people?
and
How does it sound to them or would it have sounded to them, why is it this way at all (if it is)
and also
How do you put your faith in such, and how could anyone really be asked to even, considering what is being asked of a person and what is at stake (and also the claims of the others)?

So, there is a reason why this message crossed all ethnicities and people groups. Apparently it sounded, was understood, was correctly shared and sounded correct to them. Just as apparent there are those who simply reject it for a variety of reason. As Paul said it, "2 For 2:15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life.

For some it stink and to other it is a sweet aroma.

Is it hard to believe in a resurrection? I don't think so because every religion basically has some form of it.

I think it is just the simplicity of the Gospel that has the power of the conviction of truth that makes people believe.

 

[metis]

So, for an example, If we believe in reincarnation of multiple born again experiences, should we not have many more people having reach perfection?

Some have told me I have reached perfection, but I can't post here exactly what that is because of RF rules.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, @KenS, we believe thousands of people have reached perfection, perhaps millions in all history. I too am one of them.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Maybe I could say this differently? Like the saying "All paths lead to Rome"... could I say that ultimately, even within the many religions offered, it eventually leads to "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me"? (my musings)

So, for an example, If we believe in reincarnation of multiple born again experiences, should we not have many more people having reach perfection? And if we look at today's society after thousands of years, could we not say that "I don't see anyone reaching that perfection and if we only have "maybe" 1 dozen possible candidates (at this rate) it will take an eternity to get everybody there? There must be a better way to reach truth and life where one born-again experience is all that is needed where our spirits are recreated into the image of God.
Of, if we believe that we will eventually reach Nirvana, (same concept) - shouldn't there be more people who reached the level of the Buddha? Where in one born-again experience makes us one with God.

But whatever law one creates, it becomes a law unto oneself and ultimately one is still found wanting. IMV
Thus God said "I will write my law in their hearts" after He got tired of all the rituals without heart transformation.

So when Jesus fulfilled and completed the ritual aspects (such as the sacrificing of the lamb which represented His life) - it was no longer required.

I would agree.... I would probably say that even "African types" also came out of East Africa.

It is not like that in Hinduism, Ken. We have many deities and many ways.

It is not that unless a person has had ten reincarnations, he/she would not get enlightenment. It depends on the preparation. With the right preparation, it can come very quickly. I believe that there have been thousands of people who got enlightenment. Enlightenment is abandoning all prejudices and sticking to nothing but truth and evidence.

It is society which makes laws. Laws are never perfect. That is why they keep on changing. I do not think that is wrong. After all, do we not change our country's Constitution when the need arises? The laws must be responsive. Take for example the laws about abortion or LGBTQ.
I do not think anyone writes laws in somebody's heart. We become habitual to the laws of our societies by example of our elders, training, education, religion, etc. This is what we term as 'Samskaras'. Rituals are important in their own way and cannot be dismissed presumptuously. They are a sort of meditation.

Dagon mentions Adam and Eve as the first set of humans but he knows very well that the current scientific view is that the Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA) Y-Chromosomal Adam of all humans is estimated to have lived some 275,000 years ago and the MRCA Mitochondrial Eve around 150,000 years ago.