The Atheist Contradiction and Reasoning

[Alceste]

no problem, atheism is many belief systems. but still it is a belief system.

System: a group of independent but interrelated elements comprising a unified whole.

I'm afraid that even if non-belief in gods is defined as a belief (and not playing hockey is a sport), it is still only one belief. Not a "system" of beliefs.

as i said, pour water on some clay and wait for it to turn into a brick by itself, when it does i'll call it an undesigned patter and accept it.

Satisfied?

 

[johnhanks]

i dissagree, the design is perfect, if we are so careless as you say then thats our fault. isn't it? if it was that we would die from our first bite then that is a poor design.

And if your more-or-less useless appendix becomes inflamed and kills you, is that your fault too?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

well no one was present when the earth was created, to say that it happened by itself is plain nonsense and ignorance.

By that logic saying that it happened by any means is "plain nonsense and ignorance", including God.

but since you asked the question then here's my answer. cars are mainly made from metal, plastic and fabric. how about we get a big pile of the 3 of those and we wait for them to assemble into a car. a car compared to a universe is much easier to come to be wihout any guidance right? if a car i stoo complicated for you, then how about we just get some clay pour water on it and wait for it to tun into a brick.

Why specify an object which we know is designed? Why not choose something that occurs naturally, such as a seed or fruit? They are complex and arise naturally.

i dissagree, the design is perfect, if we are so careless as you say then thats our fault. isn't it? if it was that we would die from our first bite then that is a poor design.

Look into sleep apnea.

 

[JMorris]

"nothing can be created out of nothing." "unintelligence cant create intelligence." "design requires a designer."

if this is to be taken as true, and its logic to be followed then one would have to ask the question "who created god?" until this question can be answered (or in the case of religion, simply made up), then the logic is absurd, and its conclusion is worthless.

 

[Gharib]

Satisfied?

will be as soon as it looks something like this maybe. i did say a brick i didn't say a solid object.

 

[Gharib]

And if your more-or-less useless appendix becomes inflamed and kills you, is that your fault too?

why do you speak about the appendix when science hasn't proved what it is for?

you've already come to a conclusion that since it doesn't have some important function like other parts of our body that science can think of, then it is useless, an imperfection. tell me why do some people get apendicitis and why some don't if it was all that useless and an imperfection?

it is our fault if we didn't operate to remove it once it is inflamed of course. if you think not then is death an imperfection to you? if you jump off a cliff is it god who has made us imperfect or is it our fault? so again as i said, what is perfect and what isn't? according to whole laws and standards do we label something as perfect?

 

[Gharib]

By that logic saying that it happened by any means is "plain nonsense and ignorance", including God.

what about if god said so?

Why specify an object which we know is designed? Why not choose something that occurs naturally, such as a seed or fruit? They are complex and arise naturally.

you can think all you want that they happen naturaly, they hapen because god wills it thats what i think. remember we can't see the colour of hunger nor hunger itself yet or stomach hurts, same thing with the seeds we can't see god yet it is he who makes it grow.

Look into sleep apnea.

what about it?

 

[Gharib]

"nothing can be created out of nothing." "unintelligence cant create intelligence." "design requires a designer."

i've never said the first one. you trying to pin your words and thoughts onto me?

if this is to be taken as true, and its logic to be followed then one would have to ask the question "who created god?" until this question can be answered (or in the case of religion, simply made up), then the logic is absurd, and its conclusion is worthless.

everything creaed has a creator is the phrase, since god is not a creattion nor some created being nothing created him. he is a creator. since humans and all that we can see is a creation, which all humans agree to. then god is that creator. he was not created but he creates. does that answer your question?

 

[JMorris]

does that answer your question?

no it dosent. simply repeating "he is a creator, not created" neither answers the question, nor makes much sense in terms of your own logic.

everything creaed has a creator is the phrase, since god is not a creattion nor some created being nothing created him.

why not? you say anything that exhibits intelligence or complexity must have been designed & created by a creator in order for it to exist. yet you do not extend that to god? why not? isnt god supposed to be more intelligent & complex than anything else in existence? why doesnt god require a creator, when everything else does?

he is a creator. since humans and all that we can see is a creation, which all humans agree to.

no we dont

then god is that creator. he was not created but he creates.

and? humans create many things, does that mean that since we are capable of creation, that we dont require a creator?

your logic stumbles upon itself far too easily to be seriously considered.

 

[gnostic]

Response: I've always said that atheism is a belief. For if you were to ask an atheist as to how they know that the science they claim to be true is in fact true, the answer will be, "because science says so".

How dumb can you really get?

You still don't understand science, do you?

"Because science says so."

If a number of evidences uncovered or thorough tests done and done through independent testers, and if all of the above come to the same conclusion, then you can logically build a case, where the theory have been proven...or disprove.

Science has all to do within gaining insight on how the natural and artificial worlds work. It do so without the silly notion that "God did it!" crap.

If you seriously think that science is junk religion, then you have basically just trashed the contributions of good Muslim scientists between 900 and 1400 CE. Are their science as worthless as you think modern science are?

Seriously, you're as bad as medieval illiterate Christian, and as bad as the Christian creationism (or so-called Creation science).

If all Muslims think as you do about modern science, which I think they don't, then Muslims have gone backward in their learning development, not forward.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

what about if god said so?

Maybe. Did God ever come down and tell you himself?

you can think all you want that they happen naturaly, they hapen because god wills it thats what i think. remember we can't see the colour of hunger nor hunger itself yet or stomach hurts, same thing with the seeds we can't see god yet it is he who makes it grow.

We already know what causes hunger, seeds to grow and snowflakes to form. God is entirely redundant to all three processes and asserting him as a cause adds nothing to our understanding of them. As much as you like to think he's a cause of it, since you yourself admit that he is an untestable cause I am just as justified in asserting that seeds are grown because a giant, pink, invisible hippo called Terrence wills them to.

what about it?

It is a disorder that thousands of people die from every year that is caused by a blockage of the airway at the back of the throat by the collapse of soft tissue - usually during sleep. It's incredibly common with millions of people suffering from it, though it is rarely diagnosed. In other words, your God supposedly designed millions of people's throats to either not work properly to out-and-out kill them in their sleep.

Your God is a terrible designer.

 

[Fatihah]

Are you a meteorologist?

Response: Why do you ask?

 

[Fatihah]

Ah, so then Fatihah's original point that ALL intelligence must be caused by intelligence is wrong then, correct?

Response: Fatihah never made any such point.

 

[Fatihah]

Since when does being an atheist ("without god", lack of belief in a deity/deities) automatically imply one MUST use science to explain things? That is a very large generalization and assumption.

And on the subject of asking an atheist (or anyone for that matter), "how the universe, life itself, and all that exists came to be"; some (and wisely so in my opinion) may answer, "I don't know." What do you tell that individual?

Response: I was not speaking about someone who's answer would be "I don't know". However, if there answer is I don't know, then I would ask them why they don't know.

 

[johnhanks]

why do you speak about the appendix when science hasn't proved what it is for?

you've already come to a conclusion that since it doesn't have some important function like other parts of our body that science can think of, then it is useless, an imperfection.

A vestige, in fact.

tell me why do some people get apendicitis and why some don't if it was all that useless and an imperfection?

For something to be imperfect doesn't mean it has to fail on every occasion - just to be liable to fail; in this case, fatally.

it is our fault if we didn't operate to remove it once it is inflamed of course.

For almost all of history this has not been an option.

 

[JustWondering]

Response: I was not speaking about someone who's answer would be "I don't know". However, if there answer is I don't know, then I would ask them why they don't know.

I don't know because I was not there to see how it all happened, and neither was anyone else who is alive today. I cannot say with complete certainty that Gods and spirits do not exist but I can say with confidence that it is highly unlikely. You cannot prove that souls or your god exist anymore than I can prove that unicorns or the flying spahghetti monster exists. Why do you accept a belief system based on myth and superstition and deny others? Why are you not a Wiccan, Buddist, Hindu, Christian, or Scientologist? I believe that attributing invisible supernatural causes to aspects/occurences of the natural world is intellectually lazy and dishonest.

 

[logician]

Evolution needs no designer, and the multiverse needed no creator, thus no need for a god.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

no problem, atheism is many belief systems. but still it is a belief system.

No. You seem to be having trouble with the concept of singular vs. plural. Many of a thing is different from one of the same thing.

There are atheistic belief systems; this does not make atheism itself a belief system. Similarily, there are blue cars; this does not make the colour blue a kind of car.

as i said, pour water on some clay and wait for it to turn into a brick by itself, when it does i'll call it an undesigned patter and accept it.

But what would that prove? You've already said that you believe that the clay and the water were both deliberately created by God, so if that were to actually happen, wouldn't you just chalk it up to God's design?

i know you are an engineer from previous posts you've made saying so.
i'll ask you something.
you have completed a 'perfect' building right. if this building is perfect that means it should last forever, we all know that it cannot but still i agree it is a perfect design. having said that, is there anything in paticular you would recomend? by recomend i mean do you recomend that they test explosives in it?

There is no one standard for "perfect". What is "perfect" for a building depends on its intended use. If I know that the building users are going to use the building to test explosives but I design for them the world's best greenhouse, then my design is very much imperfect when measured against the only test that matters.

will be as soon as it looks something like this maybe. i did say a brick i didn't say a solid object.

From Wiki:

A brick is a block of ceramic material used in masonry construction, usually laid using mortar.

So... a block of ceramic, used in masonry construction and laid using mortar... this would fit all those requirements:

 

[Gharib]

But what would that prove? You've already said that you believe that the clay and the water were both deliberately created by God, so if that were to actually happen, wouldn't you just chalk it up to God's design?

yes i did say that didn't i. just say it, it can't be done. you know how things work you're an engineer.

There is no one standard for "perfect". What is "perfect" for a building depends on its intended use. If I know that the building users are going to use the building to test explosives but I design for them the world's best greenhouse, then my design is very much imperfect when measured against the only test that matters.

i was talking about a residential building, that would be perfect if what you'd recomend was actually obeyed, if it wasn't and explosives were tested in it, then does that make the building imperfect?

So... a block of ceramic, used in masonry construction and laid using mortar... this would fit all those requirements:

as you've said:
'You've already said that you believe that the clay and the water were both deliberately created by God, so if that were to actually happen, wouldn't you just chalk it up to God's design?'

 

[Gharib]

Maybe. Did God ever come down and tell you himself?

would an all powerful god really need to come down himself personally and tell me something like that? you're sounding like a christian.

It is a disorder that thousands of people die from every year that is caused by a blockage of the airway at the back of the throat by the collapse of soft tissue - usually during sleep. It's incredibly common with millions of people suffering from it, though it is rarely diagnosed. In other words, your God supposedly designed millions of people's throats to either not work properly to out-and-out kill them in their sleep.

Your God is a terrible designer.

so now it's all gods fault that we are obesse isn't it. why do you tend to blame god for misshaps but you don't praise him and attribut all creation onto him? when ti comes to blaming something on someoe, even atheists are believers in god, they blame him for bad things. what about when things are OK. whydosn't god get any recognition then?