The Atheist is wasting his life

[jmvizanko]

I will repeat what i wrote before, the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents.

The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion.

Throughout people's lives from childhood until the time they die, signs are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah).

If the people are honest with themselves, reject their false gods and seek Allah, the way will be made easy for them but if they continually reject Allah's signs and continue to worship creation, the more difficult it will be for them to escape. For example, in the South Eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their main idol Skwatch, representing the supreme God of all creation. The homage to the God, and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog walked into the hut, The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift its hind leg and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of the temple, but when his rage died down he realized that the idol could not be the Lordof the universe.

Allah must be elsewhere. he now had a choice to act on his knowledge and seek Allah, or to dishonestly go along with the false beliefs of his tribe. As strange as it may seem, that was a sign from Allah for that young man. It contained within it divine guidance that what he was worshipping was false.

Prophets were sent, to every nation and tribe to support man's natural belief in Allah and man's inborn inclination to worship Him as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by Allah. Although, in most cases, much of the prophets' teachings became distorted, portions remained which point out right and wrong. For example, the ten commandments of the Torah, their confirmation in the Gospels and the existence of laws against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies.

Consequently, every soul will be held to account for its belief in Allah and its acceptance of the religion of Islam; the total submission to the will of Allah.

I understand that it is necessary for you to believe that anybody that does not find the truth of allah and islam must not be honestly searching for truth, or even acrively opposing it, for you to believe that your god is just and not cruel. However, you are still both arrogant and wrong for thinking this. I actively pursue truth and I condsider any argument anybody has to put forward for what they believe. But I have never seen an argument put forward for god, let alone your god, that was logically convincing to me. I am not actively opposed to your god for any reason, I just actually don't see any reason to think he exists.

Its also interesting to note that I have many a time had a Christian say the exaxt same thing you did: That if a person honestly seeks the truth, then they will find Christianity to be true. They are just as convinced as you, and just as arrogant.

 

[Akronist]

...or maybe it's all one big game of 'guess the weight'?!? One day we may see who's closest!

 

[Eliot Wild]

Eliot,

Just read this and your understanding will be different. You will find all answers to your inquiries . . .

Uhhhh, nope. None of that cryptic crazy prose explains why a divine being would need prophets to deliver His eternal message rather than taking it upon himself to get off his lazy divine arse and come talk to us personally leaving no doubts about his existence and his message.

By buddy, Meow Mix, asked earlier why a divine being would use prophets to deliver his message since that is a woefully ineffectual and fallible method for communicating truth. I would ask the same and even go a bit farther than that. Why would a divine being use the spoken or written language as the preferred mechanism for delivering his message when human language is an incredibly flawed medium for conveying truth. Language works well enough in the short term as long as one's audiance is confined to those who speak the same language. But if one's audience and scope is all humanity throughout all of history, why would Allah choose to use language? Why not mathmatics or something universal that does not change so drastically over time as semantic communication is likely to do?

Besides, if you want to convince me of anything, you're going to have to do it with your own words and your own reasoning. If you think throwing some cryptic, poetical verses on the screen end expecting them to work some religious magic is the way to explain truth, then you're dead wrong. To be honest, I have no idea what you are trying to say and couldn't really care less. You have provided no context for these verses you've written; you've provided no interpretation; and you've provided no reasoning as to why or how this clearly explains the existence of a god and his message to mankind.

These verses certainly don't explain the arrogance and presumptuousness of your OP in which you have judged all atheists to be living wasted lives. Of course, I don't mean to be completely dismissive. At least you have my permission to go back and tell Allah that you tried but I just wouldn't listen. Hell, take this message to Him for me . . . Tell Him I think He is lazy and incompetent and if He's got something to say to me then He should get off his holy arse and come tell me personally rather than sending some kid with a few Quran verses and an impertinent attitude to do His talking for Him.

 

[Revoltingest]

Has it occurred to you that it isn't just religious superstition that mankind has a tendancy towards? Look at all the pseudosciences, pseudohistories, and generally irrational beliefs mankind has developed across the planet. There are so many superstitious beliefs that you probably couldn't fit all of them in a series of encyclopediae. (Did I say that right? Encyclopediae? )
As Sagan pointed out, rational thinking may actually be an exception to the general rule of irrational thought. Most human beings don't start thinking rationally until they've learned how to do so -- it's a learned behavior, not an inherent one. It really shouldn't come as a surprise that Homo sapiens is rife with irrational beliefs.

True dat! I'd add that even perfectly rational people all start with values & feelings which have no rational basis at all. Take your garden variety
libertarian - to prefer liberty over security is neither right nor wrong, but rather a perspective that one has. The same would be true of a socialist,
their preference for security being neither right nor wrong. (We share a goal of wanting what's best for humanity, but the idea of "best" differs.)
These are premises, from which one might reason how to vote & what public policies one supports. That's where rationality & irrationality are
expressed. (Worry not, my lefty friends....I'm keeping it non-partisan & ain't naming names.) How many voters & politicians support/oppose
this or that program/policy based upon probabilistic systems analysis? How many even know what that is? Gut feelings usually rule.

Why is it rational to think that a powerful being such as a god would use such an unreliable method as "prophets?" Even you admit that the method is unreliable by pointing out that there are distortions in prophetic messages.

A god would likely have motives foreign to our way of thinking, so what looks unreliable to us could be perfect for the god. I'd say it only seems irrational
to us for a god to choose prophets & books to spread a message. I invoke Occam's Razor to simply avoid applying logic to sky fairy speculation.

Why does a person's religion seem to have a lot to do with where they're born and what religion their parents are? It certainly isn't always the case, but there's something alarming about the fact that most people are raised into their parents' (or at least predominant cultures') religion and then go right on believing that they're right and everyone else is wrong.

Religion is all about geography.

If anything the atheist has more drive to succeed in life because they don't believe there's an invisible "safety net" or "invisible hand" that will set things aright....

I don't know about that. I can be as lazy as any believer, many of whom strive a whole bunch.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Eliot, you wild man...tsk, tsk. Where are your manners towards simpletons
from backwards cultures with primitive beliefs? Show some tolerance, man!

The fundies should never be dissed.
(We know what they do when they're pi****d.)
Certainly, we
just disagree
'bout things which don't even exist.

Also, their deity (noting that the accent is on the 2nd syllable in "Allah") is not some trained animal performer who
makes himself available to your court of judgement upon command. (He works in mysterious ways, you know.)

The thread is about mankind's purpose.
Allah's no mere thing like a porpoise,
It shan't be commanded
that he be remanded
as though you have habeas corpus.

The system won't let me frubal you. It says I got to spread some more around before I can give you any. Well, all I can say to that is, if more people wrote limericks then I'd be happy to hand out more frubals.

But I did want to let you know, Revoltingest, that I'm trying to work on my civility and avoid getting upset at provincial thinking and bumpkin religions. You'd be proud of me . . . Yesterday, I signed up for an anger management class. But within the first couple of minutes, the instructor ****** me off so badly that I violently overturned the coffee table, smashed all the donuts with my fist in a mad scene, and now I'm barred from ever going back to the First Baptist Church where they hold their meetings. So it goes.

 

[jmvizanko]

I understand that it is necessary for you to believe that anybody that does not find the truth of allah and islam must not be honestly searching for truth, or even acrively opposing it, for you to believe that your god is just and not cruel. However, you are still both arrogant and wrong for thinking this. I actively pursue truth and I condsider any argument anybody has to put forward for what they believe. But I have never seen an argument put forward for god, let alone your god, that was logically convincing to me. I am not actively opposed to your god for any reason, I just actually don't see any reason to think he exists.

Its also interesting to note that I have many a time had a Christian say the exaxt same thing you did: That if a person honestly seeks the truth, then they will find Christianity to be true. They are just as convinced as you, and just as arrogant.

To expand a bit on this, I think I should say that I really think this is the most devestatingly damning thing about your (well, and the Christian) god. Many people actively seek truth and religion and find answers that aren't yours. And for that they deserve to be damned to hell? The fact that we can not choose what we believe is what makes your god unjust. Its not surprising, then, that you believe this is not the case, and that anybody that is not Muslim is just actively opposing your god for personal or other reasons. But the necessity of this being true for your god to not be cruel does not make it true, and all of us that don't believe in your god for good reasons can and will attest to this.

 

[Revoltingest]

The system won't let me frubal you. It says I got to spread some more around before I can give you any. Well, all I can say to that is, if more people wrote limericks then I'd be happy to hand out more frubals.

But I did want to let you know, Revoltingest, that I'm trying to work on my civility and avoid getting upset at provincial thinking and bumpkin religions. You'd be proud of me . . . Yesterday, I signed up for an anger management class. But within the first couple of minutes, the instructor ****** me off so badly that I violently overturned the coffee table, smashed all the donuts with my fist in a mad scene, and now I'm barred from ever going back to the First Baptist Church where they hold their meetings. So it goes.

Thanx! I suggest trying a Methodist church....the one where I once worked as a sexton (not as naughty as the position's title suggests) had pillows instead of a coffee table.

Let's hope this won't make you offended,
I worry 'bout whom I've befriended,
You're not one to sulk,
becoming The Hulk,
when riled, we've tables upended.

 

[NeoSeeker]

On the other hand, it is the Atheist who is wasting his life. His life has no purpose but temporary enjoyment. But such enjoyment is always tempered by nagging doubts about whether or not life is heading in the right direction. It is the believer who lives in quiet confidence that God's promise is true.

An outstanding example of theist arrogance. Thanks!

 

[Beaudreaux]

If what you wrote is valid, why Islam still remain the fastest-growing religion in America and in the world although religion is no longer dominates everyday life in Western society.

After the tragic attack on 9/11 and the war on terrorism, war on Islam in most media, Millions of people read Koran (Quran) in the Internet and visited Islamic sites.

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..." Hillary Rodman Clinton, Los Angeles Times

Islam Attracts Converts by the Thousand, Drawn Before and After Attacks
By JODI WILGOREN Source: The New York Times

Famous people are affected too:

Singer "Cat Stevens" Oh, baby, baby it's a wild world

Michael Jackson Confirms Conversion to Islam

Check in the net.

Just because lots of people believe an idea does not make it true. Consider this graffiti found on an old Europrean bathroom stall.

The world is flat!

-Class of 1491​

 

[McBell]

The natural inclination for religious faith is an integral part of the human essence. This is an indisputable fact of history. All scholars of comparative religion, regardless of their own religious backgrounds, agree that religious belief is a natural human condition. They differ, however about its origins.

Prophets were sent, to every nation and tribe to support man's natural belief in Allah and man's inborn inclination to worship Him as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by Allah. Although, in most cases, much of the prophets' teachings became distorted, portions remained which point out right and wrong. Consequently, every soul will be held to account for its belief in Allah and its acceptance of the religion.

On the other hand, it is the Atheist who is wasting his life. His life has no purpose but temporary enjoyment. But such enjoyment is always tempered by nagging doubts about whether or not life is heading in the right direction. It is the believer who lives in quiet confidence that God's promise is true.

hold on a sec...

*climbs up onto pontoon boat*

Amazing the amount of bull **** that one can put into so few words.
Kudos!

 

[AxisMundi]

Eliot,

Just read this and your understanding will be different. You will find all answers to your inquiries.

You are obviously new to forums, so I will be patient and explain some things to you.

Firstly, you are, what has been called, "theospamming", posting quotes from your scriptures.

Secondly, most people do not view your Quran liek you do. Quoting from a source we see as, to be quite frank, nonsence, only detracts from your argument.

So, if I may make a suggestion, keep the theospam to yourself if you wish to make a point, or even be taken seriously.

 

[AxisMundi]

If what you wrote is valid, why Islam still remain the fastest-growing religion in America and in the world although religion is no longer dominates everyday life in Western society.

After the tragic attack on 9/11 and the war on terrorism, war on Islam in most media, Millions of people read Koran (Quran) in the Internet and visited Islamic sites.

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..." Hillary Rodman Clinton, Los Angeles Times

Islam Attracts Converts by the Thousand, Drawn Before and After Attacks
By JODI WILGOREN Source: The New York Times

Famous people are affected too:

Singer "Cat Stevens" Oh, baby, baby it's a wild world

Michael Jackson Confirms Conversion to Islam

Check in the net.

Firstly, the non-Abrahamics are the "fastest growing" religions in the US.

We Gaels and other Celts, Wiccans, Druids, etc grow expodentially every year.

Both Islam and Christianity claim the title of "fastest growing", but both are speaking out of the wrong orifice.

Secondly, your two examples, the second one quite dubious at best, of "famous people converting", doesn't take into account the millions who flee screaming from your religion every year.

 

[logician]

If there really was an omnipotent, omnisceint god that wanted to make sure we knew it existed, there would be universal acceptance of the existence this god, by definition.

 

[AxisMundi]

If there really was an omnipotent, omnisceint god that wanted to make sure we knew it existed, there would be universal acceptance of the existence this god, by definition.

I wonder how long before some scripture thumper comes along with their appeal to ignorance fallacy?

 

[Alceste]

The natural inclination for religious faith is an integral part of the human essence. This is an indisputable fact of history. All scholars of comparative religion, regardless of their own religious backgrounds, agree that religious belief is a natural human condition. They differ, however about its origins.

Prophets were sent, to every nation and tribe to support man's natural belief in Allah and man's inborn inclination to worship Him as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by Allah. Although, in most cases, much of the prophets' teachings became distorted, portions remained which point out right and wrong. Consequently, every soul will be held to account for its belief in Allah and its acceptance of the religion.

On the other hand, it is the Atheist who is wasting his life. His life has no purpose but temporary enjoyment. But such enjoyment is always tempered by nagging doubts about whether or not life is heading in the right direction. It is the believer who lives in quiet confidence that God's promise is true.

Seems to me that if this is the case your "confidence" ought to be a great deal quieter.