The Authenticity of Your Religion

[crossfire]

If God wasn't real, this thread would not have been resurrected from the dead on the third year.

[satire] It could be a necromancer. [/satire]

 

[Ellen Brown]

How do you know your religion is authentic?

There are many other religions out there. What information has convinced you of your beliefs?

I'm as close to being Agnostic as I have ever been. It seems that every belief has people in it and those that claim exclusivity have been most disappointing to me. It is clear that we all fail and disappoint, however. My own heart leans more to Islam, but there is an issue with Issa PBUH because I view him as much higher than official Islamic belief. I wish I knew more about what the Jews believe, but they most definitely do not recognize Issa PBUH, no not one bit. Christians confuse me greatly, and I have given up with them. Some are sort of party animals, and others have far too much starch in their underwear.

 

[Dantedeven]

The words of Jesus in several heterodox Gospels have convinced me.

 

[Ellen Brown]

The words of Jesus in several heterodox Gospels have convinced me.

Years ago, perhaps 2006, I read documents, supposedly from the same era as Jesus Christ, where one had the Christian version of the his life and crucifiction. Another document said that the mob grabbed Judas and crucified him and Jesus fled. I have no idea today of the origin of either document, but perhaps I could once again find them? Perhaps one was "Pliny" and the name of the other one was "H" something? Scholars in academia refer to them both if I am remembering correctly.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How do you know your religion is authentic?

There are many other religions out there. What information has convinced you of your beliefs?

There's no real purpose for authenticity aside from talking about basically a brand name plastered on something surrounding an idea opinion or experience that has been compartmentalized.

People in my opinion, engauge in a given religion because it works for them in some capacity. It wouldn't really matter if a religion is based upon reality or fantasy.

Besides how can you authenticate religions that are thousands and thousands of years old? Even newer modern ones. You simply can't do it as constant change over the course of time, effectively obscures the "original".

 

[Ellen Brown]

There's no real purpose for authenticity aside from talking about basically a brand name plastered on something surrounding an idea opinion or experience that has been compartmentalized.

People in my opinion, engauge in a given religion because it works for them in some capacity. It wouldn't really matter if a religion is based upon reality or fantasy.

Besides how can you authenticate religions that are thousands and thousands of years old? Even newer modern ones. You simply can't do it as constant change over the course of time, effectively obscures the "original".

I have a theory, and that is: living is frightening and one way to help us handle that is by making rules, assuming that by obeying those rules, life is easier. Remember, this is a theory.

A way to regulate the conduct of others is to form a group where everyone knows these rules and obeys them. We invent parameters such that there is strong incentive to obey, and if we don't, there are all sorts of penalties, and rewards if they are good. We invent an obsessive, anal God that punishes if we don't obey. We concoct a multi layer reward system, with only the most endowed and worthy attaining the highest level. I've seen this mindset in a few places.

By doing this, the leaders of our religion take the power of God onto themselves; making us more dependent upon the leaders than on God. I think that often the leaders are the true Atheists. I can think of two belief systems that I have direct experience with that fit that criteria. If I name them, fire and indignation follow.

Meanwhile, the true God and his relatively small number of followers try to live a life of devotion and service, adoring the Creator.

 

[outlawState]

How do you know your religion is authentic?

There are many other religions out there. What information has convinced you of your beliefs?

Authenticity lies in power but not political power, but the power to do "what it says on the label." Christianity's purpose is to save souls. It does that really well, except for "false believers" who are not saved.

This has been its strength from the outset. Whole populations and civilizations have been transformed. Consider the Roman pagan system and how brutal and horrible it was. I cannot see any other religion remotely approaching Christianity in that aspect. Many demand asceticism. At best that provides a rule for life. Rules for life are useful - consider the Old Testament, but they are legalistic and so irksome. Christianity provides much more besides a rule for life.

The danger with Christianity is when it gets confused with politics. There are no Christian political systems in the world (although some are more Christian than others) and the Catholic Church, which pretends to be one, is not but well identified in the bible as a false prophet.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Obviously couldn't vote, but I'd say
1. Polytheism has been around since the dawn of history and is still the religion of a third of mankind, despite two thousand years of Christian and Muslim persecution: we must be doing something right!
2. Look how many secondary, "created" religions there are: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, the Druse, the Sikhs, the Bahaii, etc There are all incompatible, so if you picked one at random, you'd have at least an 80% chance of being wrong, should one of them have got it right. It doesn't say much for their plausibility if creating false ones is so easy.
3. The secondary religions are based on faith. How does a Muslim know that Muhammad was a prophet? Because he said so. Well, he would, wouldn't be? How does a Christian know the resurrection took place? The only contemporaty evidence is Mark's report that the disciples found an empty tomb. Polytheism is worshiping gods that can actually be experienced.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Authenticity lies in power but not political power, but the power to do "what it says on the label." Christianity's purpose is to save souls. It does that really well, except for "false believers" who are not saved.

This has been its strength from the outset. Whole populations and civilizations have been transformed. Consider the Roman pagan system and how brutal and horrible it was. I cannot see any other religion remotely approaching Christianity in that aspect. Many demand asceticism. At best that provides a rule for life. Rules for life are useful - consider the Old Testament, but they are legalistic and so irksome. Christianity provides much more besides a rule for life.

The danger with Christianity is when it gets confused with politics. There are no Christian political systems in the world (although some are more Christian than others) and the Catholic Church, which pretends to be one, is not but well identified in the bible as a false prophet.

I come at what you say from a position of disappointment and disillusionment, after nearly 45 years of study, and service. Along with that came failings and betrayals.

I do not purport to tell any other believer how to live. There are many flavors of Christianity. The sanctimonious, and condemning aren't worth talking to. Hopefully, the meek, loving and kind will do better. Here in America many have lost their saltiness and I do not know what will happen. I believe that America will be gone before 2050.

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

My religion has just become a loading screen

 

[Jedster]

@MonkeyFire I believe in groundhogs.

Yes, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow

and/or

Kabir, when asked what is his religion,answered: "My religion is the the religion that existed before there was any religion"

 

[outlawState]

I come at what you say from a position of disappointment and disillusionment, after nearly 45 years of study, and service. Along with that came failings and betrayals.

I do not purport to tell any other believer how to live. There are many flavors of Christianity. The sanctimonious, and condemning aren't worth talking to. Hopefully, the meek, loving and kind will do better. Here in America many have lost their saltiness and I do not know what will happen. I believe that America will be gone before 2050.

I concur that there is a particular problem with Christianity in the USA, but it is also found in Western European and most other richer nations, which is what Christ himself identified. "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold," Matt 24;12.

The USA is not an especially Christian country anymore, and its sexually permissive legal system is very antithetic to Christ. So many especially large US denominations are also given over to anti-biblical morality now. For Christians there is one faith, one hope, one lord and one system of morality ruled by spiritual awareness. It's up to believers to find it and persevere.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I concur that there is a particular problem with Christianity in the USA, but it is also found in Western European and most other richer nations, which is what Christ himself identified. "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold," Matt 24;12.

The USA is not an especially Christian country anymore, and its sexually permissive legal system is very antithetic to Christ. So many especially large US denominations are also given over to anti-biblical morality now. For Christians there is one faith, one hope, one lord and one system of morality ruled by spiritual awareness. It's up to believers to find it and persevere.

I'm American, and born here. In the study of American History, we have been very good at rationalizing our Christianity to allow us to be robber barons over the whole of America. I'm a Veteran, so I suppose I took part in all that. The 144,000 number in the Bible used to bother me, but in my latter years it seems clear that God's standards are far different than we are taught. I don't subscribe to Fundamentalist ideas these days because God is the judge of mankind, and I have no part in it.

I have a history, and am divorced, and repented of everything that I could according to the promises of Jesus the Christ. Rev. 14 is fearsome.

 

[outlawState]

I'm American, and born here. In the study of American History, we have been very good at rationalizing our Christianity to allow us to be robber barons over the whole of America.

I wouldn't describe the American political classes as "rationalizing our Christianity." For the most part they are not theologians. Obviously there are some Christians, but I think not sufficient numbers collectively to say that they are not beholden to and independent of the rather more prevalent "deist" fraternity, where belief in God does not infer belief in Christ.

I'm a Veteran, so I suppose I took part in all that. The 144,000 number in the Bible used to bother me, but in my latter years it seems clear that God's standards are far different than we are taught. I don't subscribe to Fundamentalist ideas these days because God is the judge of mankind, and I have no part in it.

Revelation numbers are symbolic and figurative, as is much of what it says. In any case the 144,000 are just the first fruits I think. You need a good commentary such as Barnes on Revelation.

I have a history, and am divorced, and repented of everything that I could according to the promises of Jesus the Christ. Rev. 14 is fearsome.

That is good. We all need to be put in fear or worshipping the beast. I think the political classes are largely, but not wholly, doomed in that respect. Christianity is not for those who worship political power.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I wouldn't describe the American political classes as "rationalizing our Christianity." For the most part they are not theologians. Obviously there are some Christians, but I think not sufficient numbers collectively to say that they are not beholden to and independent of the rather more prevalent "deist" fraternity, where belief in God does not infer belief in Christ.


Revelation numbers are symbolic and figurative, as is much of what it says. In any case the 144,000 are just the first fruits I think. You need a good commentary such as Barnes on Revelation.


That is good. We all need to be put in fear or worshipping the beast. I think the political classes are largely, but not wholly, doomed in that respect. Christianity is not for those who worship political power.

I'd still be Muslim save for the issue of Jesus the Christ. The covering and devoutness felt right to me. Their endlessly repeated prayers bothered me until I found out that most of those prayers could come from anywhere in the Quran. As to terrorism, there are American groups that frighten me more than Isis.

 

[outlawState]

I'd still be Muslim save for the issue of Jesus the Christ. The covering and devoutness felt right to me. Their endlessly repeated prayers bothered me until I found out that most of those prayers could come from anywhere in the Quran. As to terrorism, there are American groups that frighten me more than Isis.

Isis are I regret just criminals on holiday. There is no likeness of Christ in the Quran but there is some upholding of basic morality but nothing to speak of as constrasted with any other religion, like Confucianism or the writings of Lao Tzu (Laozi) which are immeasurably superior to Mahomet.

Mahomet himself murdered thousands for booty and power as did his followers. What has that got to do with Christ? If you read the early history of Islam, Muslims spent as much if not more time killing each other as they did others. They still do. Islam is really a political movement containing a third rate religion (deriving ultimately from Ba'al worship but with some Mahomet-era inventions linked to Judaism and Christianity such as monotheism) into which most are brainwashed and who don't understand that God seeks those who seek him, not those who seek political power.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Isis are I regret just criminals on holiday. There is no likeness of Christ in the Quran but there is some upholding of basic morality but nothing to speak of as constrasted with any other religion, like Confucianism or the writings of Lao Tzu (Laozi) which are immeasurably superior to Mahomet.

Mahomet himself murdered thousands for booty and power as did his followers. What has that got to do with Christ? If you read the early history of Islam, Muslims spent as much if not more time killing each other as they did others. They still do. Islam is really a political movement containing a third rate religion (deriving ultimately from Ba'al worship but with some Mahomet-era inventions linked to Judaism and Christianity such as monotheism) into which most are brainwashed and who don't understand that God seeks those who seek him, not those who seek political power.

I can't say that I came to Islam for logical reasons. It was a time of personal failure on my part, or I had been made to feel that way. In 2001, a group of us had been to Kenya as a Missionary group, and I came home shattered by the poverty and pain in the culture I had seen. Just a few months later would come the 9/11 "attack", though I am not so sure about what we are told. People, in my church and everywhere else were so angry and most certainly not Christ like. It felt like I was trying to deepen my own relationship with God, and Jesus the Christ, and almost everyone else was heading the opposite direction.

I was working for City Government and my quiet little job suddenly became very tense and high pressure. People where I worked were illegally tapping phones, and there were plans to illegally start confiscating guns. People were hysterical, and it was difficult to not become so myself. My Doctor got me on some drugs to help me sleep and to combat anxiety, but they just made matters worse. The media and parts of the government seemed to be leading us to a war, and that is the last thing that seemed right to me. After serving in the Vietnam era, it all just felt insane. In the space of a week, I was hospitalized, accused of being deep in sin, lost my family, church, job and friends.

Since I was sure I still loved God, and was no longer sure of Jesus Christ, in my overmedicated state, Islam seemed like a good choice. It's taken years to recover from what followed. It is getting late and I am due in Church soon. This is painful to talk of. Perhaps more later. Have a good Sunday.

 

[outlawState]

The media and parts of the government seemed to be leading us to a war, and that is the last thing that seemed right to me. After serving in the Vietnam era, it all just felt insane. In the space of a week, I was hospitalized, accused of being deep in sin, lost my family, church, job and friends.

I feel very sorry for you. I am obviously ignorant of the details, and have no wish to inquire further, as you have clearly suffered greatly.

One response to the 9/11 attack was to accuse the US authorities of being completely blind to the reality of Islam as a self-promoting political system dedicated to evangelism by the sword, by deceit and by whatever other means comes to hand. They are still blind, as are the authorities in many other countries. They are creating huge problems for the future in allowing Islamic immigration at all. There is no single authentic interpretation of Islam. There are as many variants of Islam as there are of Christianity but with Christianity it is always possible to go back to the apostles and ask, "what did the founders of Christianity believe?"

With Islam it is quite impossible where Mahomet went through various stages of his religious activity. Although he commenced his pontifications in a relatively modest and quasi-spiritual and reflective sense, he ended up with a different and vastly more militant attitude, where it became quite permissible and even advisory to put "unbelievers" to the sword, and treat them with all kinds of contempt and deceit, especially where they would not submit to the Islamic yoke.

There is no single authentic version of Islam where it all depends on which emphasis the reader of the Quran chooses for himself or herself. Is it a matter of choice anyway? Islam is largely propagated by indoctrination of children and apostasy mandates the death penalty in many countries and Islamic societies. External repression of the unbeliever, which is clearly manifest in places like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, is fully matched if not exceeded by internal political repression against Islam's existing adherents.

So the West in allowing immigrant adherents of Islam untrammelled access to its benefits is placing itself in an inherently dangerous position. War may not have been justfified by 9/11, and it was difficult to make a coherent case, I fully agree, but one can excuse any deep-seated hatred of Islam post 9/11. Islam is no tame tiger and the casualities of its battles run into millions - 270million according to some calculations.

 

[Vinayaka]

How do you know your religion is authentic?

There are many other religions out there. What information has convinced you of your beliefs?

My faith has stood the test of time. My early personal mystical experiences convinced me, although I didn't know at the time any religion at all supported them.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I feel very sorry for you. I am obviously ignorant of the details, and have no wish to inquire further, as you have clearly suffered greatly.

One response to the 9/11 attack was to accuse the US authorities of being completely blind to the reality of Islam as a self-promoting political system dedicated to evangelism by the sword, by deceit and by whatever other means comes to hand. They are still blind, as are the authorities in many other countries. They are creating huge problems for the future in allowing Islamic immigration at all. There is no single authentic interpretation of Islam. There are as many variants of Islam as there are of Christianity but with Christianity it is always possible to go back to the apostles and ask, "what did the founders of Christianity believe?"

With Islam it is quite impossible where Mahomet went through various stages of his religious activity. Although he commenced his pontifications in a relatively modest and quasi-spiritual and reflective sense, he ended up with a different and vastly more militant attitude, where it became quite permissible and even advisory to put "unbelievers" to the sword, and treat them with all kinds of contempt and deceit, especially where they would not submit to the Islamic yoke.

There is no single authentic version of Islam where it all depends on which emphasis the reader of the Quran chooses for himself or herself. Is it a matter of choice anyway? Islam is largely propagated by indoctrination of children and apostasy mandates the death penalty in many countries and Islamic societies. External repression of the unbeliever, which is clearly manifest in places like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, is fully matched if not exceeded by internal political repression against Islam's existing adherents.

So the West in allowing immigrant adherents of Islam untrammelled access to its benefits is placing itself in an inherently dangerous position. War may not have been justfified by 9/11, and it was difficult to make a coherent case, I fully agree, but one can excuse any deep-seated hatred of Islam post 9/11. Islam is no tame tiger and the casualities of its battles run into millions - 270million according to some calculations.