The awful Education system of the US

[Shadow Wolf]

hat's not an assumption by me, Shadow Wolf. Read the thread. That is what has been proposed; that teaching evolution is THE most important thing. It's not. It's ONE of the important things, but not THE most important. When I argue that first, we need to teach students to read and write, the argument coming back is about how important evolution is.

People are saying it's important, but not "THE most important thing" from what I have seen. And, of course, no one thinks it should be taught before a student is able to read and has a basic grasp of science.

 

[dianaiad]

People are saying it's important, but not "THE most important thing" from what I have seen. And, of course, no one thinks it should be taught before a student is able to read and has a basic grasp of science.

If that's what you think, you haven't been reading the thread!!!

EVERY time, until this afternoon, I talk about literacy and the necessity of teaching students to read, I get the 'YEC is bad and the reason that the education system sucks is that YEC is being taught in public schools (it sure isn't here!) and that nobody is teaching proper evolution anywhere. (yes, they are). As well, I was told that it only required a fifth grade level of reading ability to teach it.

Except that I've been talking about kids who graduate from high school with a THIRD GRADE level of reading ability and comprehension.

It has been incredibly frustrating to talk about this with people who only have one thing on their minds, figuring that all the educational woes of the universe can be solved if only we taught evolution correctly...meaning, their way. (and I am an evolutionist and believe that the earth is 4 billion years old, too, so don't accuse me of promoting young earth creationism, please)

So please don't tell me that 'no one thinks it should be taught before a student is able to read and has a basic grasp of science." Not when my entire point in this thread is to point out that we are turning high school graduates out WITHOUT that ability to read or have a basic grasp of science! In other words, NOBODY was paying attention to what I was saying!

 

[Audie]

I understand what you are talking about, but it is difficult. I am an elementary school teacher myself. And we put a lot of effort into making children quickly adapt and learn collectively. But don't worry, there are many of us. Those who want to help.

You might be interested to observe classrooms in China or Japan.

 

[epronovost]

You might be interested to observe classrooms in China or Japan.

Never been to class in Japan, but according to Chinese teachers I have interviewed as part of my studies their classes were pretty darn overcrowded by Canadian standards. I heard elite schools are of course very different since they select their students based on grades and behavior (any idiot can teach to very smart and motivated students).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

38 % in the US believe in YEC. In U.S., Belief in Creationist View of Humans at New Low I call that a fail of the educational system.

That's due to American religious culture, not the public education system. Parents can choose not to send their kid to a public school, you know. (And the smart ones who can afford it don't.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So it’s been like this running joke for as long as I can remember to lambast the US lower levels of education as inherently flawed. Awful. Lagging.
But I mean is that really accurate?
You Americanstan RFers seem reasonably well educated. (Some questionable sex Ed posts notwithstanding.)
So help me understand what the US education system is really like. What are your experiences? Your issues with curriculum? Your praises? Are some subjects taught better than others?
Is it as jingoistic as some like to claim?

Have at it. Defend or tear to shreds the schooling system of the US.

It is awful. So many young people don't even know how to read. It was always cringe-inducing hearing my peers very poorly try to read aloud. Even now. I missed a lot of school, myself, and was kicked out of high school due to truancy caused by health problems, so most things I know I taught myself. I've had abusive, lunatic teachers, too. My 3rd grade teacher would cuss at us and try to tape us to chairs. She messed up my math learning. My 8th homeroom teacher went to jail for soliciting sex from an underage boy. (Yes, there's many horrible teachers; I'm not a fan of the fawning cult of teachers that has developed lately which doesn't seem to realize that.)

 

[Audie]

Never been to class in Japan, but according to Chinese teachers I have interviewed as part of my studies their classes were pretty darn overcrowded by Canadian standards. I heard elite schools are of course very different since they select their students based on grades and behavior (any idiot can teach to very smart and motivated students).

Crowding is a problem as is lack of money
in Asian schools, Philippines, Thailand, China,
Malaysia...but my interviews of people from
various countries incl. Africa and India have been to the effect that- you don't want school,
you sass the teacher? Fine, there's sugar cane to weed, rocks to break up, sweatshop to work in. Go!

Or as in my case, any hint of less than 110 percent effort brought down the fury if the tiger mom.

I don't have solutions for US or Canada.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is awful. So many young people don't even know how to read. It was always cringe-inducing hearing my peers very poorly try to read aloud. Even now. I missed a lot of school, myself, and was kicked out of high school due to truancy caused by health problems, so most things I know I taught myself. I've had abusive, lunatic teachers, too. My 3rd grade teacher would cuss at us and try to tape us to chairs. She messed up my math learning. My 8th homeroom teacher went to jail for soliciting sex from an underage boy. (Yes, there's many horrible teachers; I'm not a fan of the fawning cult of teachers that has developed lately which doesn't seem to realize that.)

A teacher story.....
I inherited a manager when I bought a self storage facility.
He was an odd duck....one of those who just seemed off
when just conversing with him. Well, he had also been a
a substitute teacher in the Ann Arbor Public Schools.
After a lawsuit brought against the schools, a judge
determined that he'd worked enuf hours that under state
law, he had the right to full time hire & tenure.

After he was gone, tenants started telling me about his
sexually inappropriate conversations, & his stealing
from them. The school didn't check his references,
& by then it was too late....tenure & teacher's union,
ya know.

 

[Heyo]

That's due to American religious culture, not the public education system. Parents can choose not to send their kid to a public school, you know.

I call that alone a failure of the education system. When your goal is to educate people you do it yourself or leave it to someone who is competent. And you make sure they don't teach BS. While everyone has a right to be stupid, the US has expanded that right to decide that their children also should be stupid.

"I don't understand evolution and I have to protect my kids from understanding it!"

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I call that alone a failure of the education system. When your goal is to educate people you do it yourself or leave it to someone who is competent. And you make sure they don't teach BS. While everyone has a right to be stupid, the US has expanded that right to decide that their children also should be stupid.

"I don't understand evolution and I have to protect my kids from understanding it!"

That's a matter of parent's rights to raise their children as they see fit, with the worldview and beliefs that they wish to impart.

 

[Revoltingest]

Or as in my case, any hint of less than 110 percent effort brought down the fury if the tiger mom.

I know people with "tiger" parents (Chinese immigrants).
Results are mixed. Some buckled under the pressure.
Some succeeded.
In one family, the son was considered a failure because
never became a doctor...just an engineer. I vividly
remember at a parent's funeral, how one daughter
diplomatically described their pride in their children.
Except for him.

My parents were "sloth" parents. I don't recall much
attention paid to my education. I just did whatever
I wanted. This works better for some than others.

 

[Heyo]

That's a matter of parent's rights to raise their children as they see fit, with the worldview and beliefs that they wish to impart.

I don't view children as property of their parents. They have rights on their own. I find it especially incomprehensible when people who advocate for foetuses having rights suddenly deny all rights to children who are already born.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't view children as property of their parents. They have rights on their own. I find it especially incomprehensible when people who advocate for foetuses having rights suddenly deny all rights to children who are already born.

It's a delicate issue, but generally it's recognized as a human right to raise your children with the family's cultural and religious traditions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't view children as property of their parents. They have rights on their own. I find it especially incomprehensible when people who advocate for foetuses having rights suddenly deny all rights to children who are already born.

I couldn't agree more. Many children needlessly suffer because the belief parents should have total authority over their children. They mutilate the genitals of males without consent, they can have treatment withheld (and not just for religious reasons), and they think it's just fine and dandy to not prepare their children for adult topics like sex. They demand their children be taught American Exceptionalism, they bitterly oppose their children learning about evolution, and do it all entirely free from thinking what they want may not be what their child wants and may not even be what is best for their child. Education denied, medical procedures and treatment denied, hopes and dreams denied all because the parent doesn't like it. Wisconsin v Yoder? I've read enough compelling arguments from the children that has harmed that I can't support it.

 

[Heyo]

It's a delicate issue, but generally it's recognized as a human right to raise your children with the family's cultural and religious traditions.

With "generally" you mean the US?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

With "generally" you mean the US?

The US, but it's also found in the UN's UDHR.

 

[Audie]

I know people with "tiger" parents (Chinese immigrants).
Results are mixed. Some buckled under the pressure.
Some succeeded.
In one family, the son was considered a failure because
never became a doctor...just an engineer. I vividly
remember at a parent's funeral, how one daughter
diplomatically described their pride in their children.
Except for him.

My parents were "sloth" parents. I don't recall much
attention paid to my education. I just did whatever
I wanted. This works better for some than others.

I don't recommend it. Certainly not for everyone.
I will always feel not good enough, a failure.

Good grief, I went to law school just to prove I
could do it.
Didn't bother with bar exam coz I
never intended to like be a lawyer.

But that's about me. I see a lot of
serious, ah systemic deficiencies in US
education. I sure was miles ahead when I
arrived for American middle school.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't recommend it. Certainly not for everyone.
I will always feel not good enough, a failure.

Good grief, I went to law school just to prove I
could do it.
Didn't bother with bar exam coz I
never intended to like be a lawyer.

But that's about me. I see a lot of
serious, ah systemic deficiencies in US
education. I sure was miles ahead when I
arrived for American middle school.

Aye, I see shortcomings too.
But schools never ask for my advice.

I once had an employee (maintenance) who was
nearly done with his 4-yr sociology degree.
He complained about not liking the few remaining
courses he had to take. I asked why get the degree.
His family wanted him to be a college graduate.
I asked him if he needed it to feel better about himself,
or he'd use the degree or make more money.
He quit the program. Good move.

 

[Audie]

Aye, I see shortcomings too.
But schools never ask for my advice.

I once had an employee (maintenance) who was
nearly done with his 4-yr sociology degree.
He complained about not liking the few remaining
courses he had to take. I asked why get the degree.
His family wanted him to be a college graduate.
I asked him if he needed it to feel better about himself,
or he'd use the degree or make more money.
He quit the program. Good move.

If I had to earn a living I'd have felt a
lot diff about college.

I know a lot of people who just got in debt and
4 yrs behind in any career they might have had.

 

[Revoltingest]

If I had to earn a living I'd have felt a
lot diff about college.

I know a lot of people who just got in debt and
4 yrs behind in any career they might have had.

How could you possibly not feel good enuf?
You....
- Excel at at math.
- Know kung fu.
- Save money by shopping in the petite department.
- Are wealthy.
- Are young.
- Are smarter than the average bear.
- Are fetching.
- Have a law degree.
(The good thing is having not become a lawyer.)
- Are wealthy.