The Baha'i Faith's concept of "progressive" revelation

[CG Didymus]

I believe the writings are nothing new and reflect thinking about Islam and Christianity and sometimes other religions. IMO God isn't as wordy and doesn't use confusing language even when saying parables. I would liken the writings to those of a guru.

I believe you can see from this why I believe Baha'i is not true to Christianity.

Where'd they all go? But about the "wordiness" the Guardian of their faith has sentences that go on and on. I think they see that as a good thing. The other writings are very similar to the style of the Koran... a lot of "holy" sounding stuff.

 

[CG Didymus]

In the whole "progression" thing, I thought I'd look up Jainism. It has some significant differences to Hinduism and Buddhism. Where do Baha'i place Jainism?

Since none of you Baha'is have responded yet, here's some basic things about Jainism

Jainism... an Indian religion that prescribes a path of non-violence towards all living beings and emphasizes spiritual independence and equality between all forms of life. Practitioners believe that non-violence and self-control are the means by which they can obtain liberation...
Jainism is one of the oldest religions in the world.[2] Jains traditionally trace their history through a succession of twenty-four propagators of their faith known as tirthankara with Ādinātha as the first tirthankara and Mahāvīra as the last of the current era.

Some of their beliefs:

After Death
Through laws of karma, one's soul is reborn until enlightened and liberated. One may be reborn into hell or heaven or as a lower life form, depending on one's karma. Once fully liberated, you become a god with omniscience and omnipotence.

• Why Evil?
People have free will to commit wrongs. Evil results as cravings, attachments, and ignorance accumulate through perpetual rebirths, resulting in greed, hatred, violence.

• Salvation
Ridding oneself of all karmas (good or bad) and extinguishing all attachments enables one to become enlightened/liberated from cycles of rebirth and become a God with limitless perception,

[FONT=&quot]I definitely see similarities between Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. Not so much with Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. Still, you really believe in a progression of religion as taught by manifestations of one God?
[/FONT]

 

[CG Didymus]

Still sad, a brand new messenger from God and nobody cares? So this is just like school. And we're doing the Alice Cooper thing... "School's out for summer! School's out forever!" I'm sorry, but not too many people are interested in moving on with their education. They're either playing hooky, or they're being kept back a grade. See you Baha'is around. Later man.

 

[Muffled]

There are different groups of Buddhists, and not all accept or believe ths same things.

In any case, IOV no, one can never become God (or a god).

Peace,

Bruce

I believe that is why I would consider Baha'i a rehash and not a progression and i the sense of moving away from Christianity a regression. I suppose one could view it as a continuity to some degree.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I believe that is why I would consider Baha'i a rehash and not a progression and i the sense of moving away from Christianity a regression. I suppose one could view it as a continuity to some degree.

ALL the great religions aer in fact a continual progression of a single ever-evolving faith, the Faith of God!

In this sense, they're quite continuous in that while sharing the same spiritual teachings, they each exhibit evolving, gradually progressing social teachings suited to the needs of each Age. It's thus moving "away" from Christianity only in the sense that it contains newer, updated laws and teachings while still recognizing and respecting both Christ and the Bible.

The Baha'i Faith is thus not a 'rehash" in any major sense, the more so given that it has 200 volumes of its own scriptures as well as its own beliefs, practices, and administrative structure.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[CG Didymus]

ALL the great religions aer in fact a continual progression of a single ever-evolving faith, the Faith of God!

In this sense, they're quite continuous in that while sharing the same spiritual teachings, they each exhibit evolving, gradually progressing social teachings suited to the needs of each Age. It's thus moving "away" from Christianity only in the sense that it contains newer, updated laws and teachings while still recognizing and respecting both Christ and the Bible.

The Baha'i Faith is thus not a 'rehash" in any major sense, the more so given that it has 200 volumes of its own scriptures as well as its own beliefs, practices, and administrative structure.

Peace,

Bruce

What are the spiritual teachings that all great religions share? Like how to be saved? How to obey God's Law? How to break free of the cycle of birth and death? Who is God? How did we get here? etc. etc.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What are the spiritual teachings that all great religions share?...

I already replied to this question and this is the third time:

"it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. It shows mercy to the poor, defends the oppressed, gives to the wretched and uplifts the fallen. "

And don't tell that for example Buddhism does not teach "love of God". In our view it originally did. In Baha'i View the original teachings of Buddha is not available, otherwise He taught oneness of God, and established love of God......How do I know if that was true? Easy, because Baha'u'llah says that. How do I know what Baha'u'llah says is true? Because Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God. How do I know He is a Manifestation of God? I already replied to this question several times, please refer to it.

 

[CG Didymus]

..."it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. It shows mercy to the poor, defends the oppressed, gives to the wretched and uplifts the fallen. "

And don't tell that for example Buddhism does not teach "love of God". In our view it originally did. In Baha'i View the original teachings of Buddha is not available, otherwise He taught oneness of God, and established love of God......How do I know if that was true? Easy, because Baha'u'llah says that. How do I know what Baha'u'llah says is true? Because Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God. How do I know He is a Manifestation of God? I already replied to this question several times, please refer to it.

Tell me a definition of who God is from the different religions that is consistent. Tell me where humans go after death from the different religions that is consistent. All you've shown is generalities. You never answer my questions about Jainism also. Is it a true religion? How about Sikhs? How about Sunni Islam? How about Catholic Christians? Religions are different and teach different things.

You say only the "social teachings" are different, then what was the social teachings of Jesus that changed from the previous "revealed" religions? What changes in social teachings did Islam make to what Jesus said? Anyway, thanks for coming back and posting again. But to say the lost teachings of the Buddha talks about God doesn't work. His God, at best, would have been the many Gods of Hinduism, not the one God of Judaism or the three in one God that most Christians believe in.

 

[BruceDLimber]

What are the spiritual teachings that all great religions share?

A few examples are:

• There is a God.
• We're here for a reason.
• Don't murder.

(There are, of course, others.)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[CG Didymus]

A few examples are:

• There is a God.
• We're here for a reason.
• Don't murder.

(There are, of course, others.)

Peace,

Bruce

So what is up with Protestant Fundamentalist Christianity? Is Jesus the Savior? Are people sinful and in need of Jesus to save them? Is there a devil and hell? Because words attributed to make it seem so. Is their heaven and eternal life for those that belief in Jesus? If all great religions have all those generalities mentioned in common, why are they so different? Did the manifestation make them different or did his followers?

 

[Desert Snake]

I believe that is why I would consider Baha'i a rehash and not a progression and i the sense of moving away from Christianity a regression. I suppose one could view it as a continuity to some degree.

Continuity implies sameness of purpose. Not sure that that is what's going on here. Baha'i is quite different from Christianity in theological ideas...WHERE IS THE CONTINUITY??

 

[Muffled]

Continuity implies sameness of purpose. Not sure that that is what's going on here. Baha'i is quite different from Christianity in theological ideas...WHERE IS THE CONTINUITY??

I believe that is why I said to some degree. It does not appear to me that Baha'i continues the purpose of Christianity.

The Baha'l'llah believed in being non-vioent the way Jesus was non-violent for one thing. However he also believed that the Bab should be able to defend himself from the authorities as Mohammed defended himself from his enemies.

 

[Muffled]

ALL the great religions aer in fact a continual progression of a single ever-evolving faith, the Faith of God!

In this sense, they're quite continuous in that while sharing the same spiritual teachings, they each exhibit evolving, gradually progressing social teachings suited to the needs of each Age. It's thus moving "away" from Christianity only in the sense that it contains newer, updated laws and teachings while still recognizing and respecting both Christ and the Bible.

The Baha'i Faith is thus not a 'rehash" in any major sense, the more so given that it has 200 volumes of its own scriptures as well as its own beliefs, practices, and administrative structure.

Peace,

Bruce

I believe making this statement does not make it true and it has yet to be proven.

I believe there was nothing in Christianity about it being suitable for its age. I believe "the fulness of time" that is mentioned refers more to how long God will be patient with men and how close the end of the age would be. Christianity is not about social teachings. I wouldn't call what Jesus taught about the law a progression but simply a clarification. I don't know what Bahi's think has to be suitable to an age but I do believe Islamic law is oriented towards Arabs.

I believe it has move away in the sense of eliminating the Gospel.

I believe that is what makes it a different religion but in the sense of being a religion based on laws it is not different from Hiinduism, Judaism and Islam.

I believe one can't progress betond Christianity. God has gone as far as He can go to save people.

 

[Muffled]

Where'd they all go? But about the "wordiness" the Guardian of their faith has sentences that go on and on. I think they see that as a good thing. The other writings are very similar to the style of the Koran... a lot of "holy" sounding stuff.

I don't believe it is. Even with God talking as plainly as He does people still have trouble understanding Him. What I am basicly saying is that I don't believe that Baha'i scripture is inspired by God because God isn't wordy.

I beleive even the wordy stuff can sound Holy. I could probably spout something inane out of my own mind and make it sound Hoy by using "thees" and "thous."

 

[BruceDLimber]

So what is up with Protestant Fundamentalist Christianity?

Why ask me? I'm not--and have never been--one.

If all great religions have all those generalities mentioned in common, why are they so different?

The changing needs of humanity in each Age.

As the Baha'i scriptures say:

"CVI.
"The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem.... The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require."
--Gleanings, CVI, p. 213

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

I believe "the fulness of time" that is mentioned refers more to how long God will be patient with men and how close the end of the age would be.

Ah--but that's your interpretation. Others differ.

I believe there was nothing in Christianity about it being suitable for its age.

We see "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" as fitting that criterion given that it's in the present tense only, and doesn't at all say He will likewise be at some other, future time.

In other Ages, each Divine Messenger fulfilled this same role, which is precisely why most if not all Their scriptures contain similar statements!

For example:

This was originally intended as part of an informal quiz, the goal of which is to determine which religion said which statement (I'll post the answers later). Enjoy!

THE ONLY WAY​

1. “This is the path. There is no other that leads to vision.”
2. “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
3. “Whoso seeks guidance elsewhere, God will lead him astray.”
4. “He that hath Me not is bereft of all things. Turn ye away from all that is on earth and seek none else but Me.”
5. “Abandoning all duties, come to Me alone for shelter.”
6. “There is only one religious way. This one way is that of good thoughts, good words, and good deeds, the way of Heaven, of light and of purity, of the infinite Creator.”

Peace,

Bruce

 

[John Martin]

There are two types of spiritual traditions: wisdom and prophetic.
Religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Taoism belong to wisdom tradition.
Religions like Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity,Islam and Bahai belong to the prophetic tradition.
The predominant element in the wisdom religions is the human beings searching for the truth and proposing spiritual practices of self-purification.
In the prophetic traditions God is very active and takes the initiative and reveals his will, which becomes the Holy Scripture.
In the wisdom tradition it is the inherent grace that operates and God seems to be silent, Buddhism and Jainism do not speak of God. Wheras Hinduism presents God descending into the world.
In the prophetic religions it is the grace that comes from above which takes the prominent place and God calling various prophets through which he reveals his will.
Each tradition has its uniqueness but some aspect is not dominant.
Revelation is basically revealing who human beings are and what is their purpose in this world. Revelation is related to the love of God and love of neighbour.
There is growth in divine-human relationship. The highest revelation of the love of God is that in which the human consciousness realizes being one with the divine consciousness. A person will say I and God are one or God alone is. No one can go beyond that. This highest revelation or experiences has been realized in the Upanishads of Hinduism 500 years before Christ. The highest revelation of the love of neighbour is that in which a person identifies with the whole of humanity and of creation and lives for the welfare of the whole of humanity and of creation. This also has been realized in the Upanishads 500 years before Christ. Isa Upanishad says, ' A sage is one whose self has become one with all. A sage does not hurt himself by hurting others. But this realization did not penetrate the social fabric and there developed oppressive social structures which were supported by the theories of karma and reincarnation which maintained the status quo and blocked the socially trans-formative action. In the prophetic tradition Jesus Christ has realized highest divine-human relationship and the highest human-human relationship. When Jesus said, 'the Father and I are one', it is the highest divine-human relationship possible. When he said, 'whatever you do to the least of my brothers and sisters that I do unto me. He realized his oneness with the whole of humanity and of creation. In him the love of God was one hundred percent and the love of neighbour was one hundred percent. No revelation can go beyond that. Jesus realized that the social, political, religious and economic structures of his time did not manifest this highest truth which he called the kingdom of God. He became an activist and wanted to transform the society. He entered into conflict with the religious leaders,political leaders, social leaders and economic leaders. He had to die on the cross for his activism. This is the difference between the Upanishad sages and Jesus. The Upanishad sages were not social activists. They were more ascetics. Bahai's believe in the progressive revelation. They think that they have the highest revelation since their religion is latest. We cannot say that a religion has the fullness of truth or last word or better revelation than the previous one since it is the latest. This is not the valid criteria. There are two criteria to Judge if a religion has the better revelation or not:
1. What is the highest divine-human relationship possible in this religion?
2. What is the highest human-human relationship possible in this religion.
The highest human-divine relationship and the highest human-human relationship beak down all the barriers and create one God, one creation and one humanity.
This truth has been realized in the past and this possibility is given to everyone. But it is too much for human beings so they built walls again and fragmented the one truth. Religious truths are conditioned truths. Fullness of truth has no boundaries. It is like the infinite space. It embraces all the conditioned truths and invites them to grow into the unconditioned truth. For me Jesus Christ' truth stands for that boundless unconditioned truth. He represented the fullness of revelation and fullness of Truth. Nothing or no one can go beyond that. This truth cannot be put into a religion. This truth cannot be legalized and organized. Each individual has to grow into it and live from that realization. In the unconditioned truth a person will say, 'I am the way,the truth and the life'. Religions are only like platform which facilitate this growth. I am sorry to say that Christianity does not represent this fullness of Truth. It has reduced the fullness of the Truth of Jesus into conditioned truth and built dividing walls.

 

[Desert Snake]

We see "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" as fitting that criterion given that it's in the present tense only, and doesn't at all say He will likewise be at some other, future time.

Wildly inaccurate interpretation of Christianity's purpose. Christianity is first and foremost about worship of Jesus/God, secularism takes a distant or even nonexistent role. You are, I presume, taking your opinion from secular 'rationalizers' who aren't part of the religion.

 

[CG Didymus]

So what is it about fundy Christians?

Why ask me? I'm not--and have never been--one.

Because you say their interpretation of the gospels is wrong. They say there is a real place called hell. There is a real spirit being called satan and that all those that don't accept Jesus are going to die in their sins. You don't believe in their devil and hell. And you don't believe like they do about being "saved".

This not grade school. One of you has it wrong and is teaching it wrong. It's not a progression. It's a totally different view of what is the truth about God. Many of us don't believe they are right. But a lot of us don't believe you're right either. But Baha'is, I would hope, are much less wrong than them, because they send good people from any religion other than theirs to hell, and that can't be right.

 

[oldbadger]

The Baha'l'llah believed in being non-vioent the way Jesus was non-violent for one thing. However he also believed that the Bab should be able to defend himself from the authorities as Mohammed defended himself from his enemies.

Not sure about this.
Yeshua asked his followers to sell their belts, purses etc.... and to buy swords.
Cephas carried a sword.
Judas Iscariot may well have been a Sicarii (assassin). Look at his name Iscariot.
The Zebedee brothers were reportedly nick-named 'Sons of Thunder', but a learned member has written that in fact the true translation is 'Sons of Violence'.
And in the Temple demonstration and picket, Yeshua used a whip.