The Baseless and Inaccurate Attacks on an Algerian Female Boxer

[Debater Slayer]

There are already two threads about this, but I wanted to clarify in a separate thread what I find to be an absolutely disgraceful, misogynistic, and dehumanizing false narrative pushed by some media outlets and social-media ideologues who traffic in outrage.

Imane Khelif is an Algerian boxer whose win over her Italian counterpart, Angela Carini, has sparked controversy and objections, including from Giorgia Meloni, the Italian prime minister:

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-algerian-khelif-advances-after-italys-carini-abandons-fight-after-46-2024-08-01/

Imane Khelif is and has always been a biological female. She is not trans; she is a woman whose appearance is masculine by typical perceptions. She is a biological female competing in women's boxing.

Algerian law and society wouldn't allow Khelif to represent the country if she were trans, as both the state and society are not accepting of trans people. The outrage is not even grounded in an accurate understanding of Algerian social and legal norms.

I find the venom and hatred aimed at her over her appearance and strength, which have been attributed to her supposedly being trans, even though she's a biological female to be absolutely repulsive and disgraceful. Many of those who claim to be against misogyny in women's sports are now engaging in rank misogyny against a woman for her appearance. I just wanted to clarify this piece of news, especially given that many of the comments I have seen on it demonstrate complete lack of knowledge about Algerian law and society. I believe that there are legitimate and strongly grounded concerns regarding trans women's participation in physical women's sports, but this woman is a biological female and has always been so. She is being baselessly dragged into a completely separate controversy.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

There are already two threads about this, but I wanted to clarify in a separate thread what I find to be an absolutely disgraceful, misogynistic, and dehumanizing false narrative pushed by some media outlets and social-media ideologues who traffic in outrage.

Imane Khelif is an Algerian boxer whose win over her Italian counterpart, Angela Carini, has sparked controversy and objections, including from Giorgia Meloni, the Italian prime minister:

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-algerian-khelif-advances-after-italys-carini-abandons-fight-after-46-2024-08-01/

Imane Khelif is and has always been a biological female. She is not trans; she is a woman whose appearance is masculine by typical perceptions. She is a woman and biological female competing in women's boxing.

Also, Algerian law and society wouldn't allow Khelif to represent the country if she were trans, as both the state and society are not accepting of trans people. The outrage is not even grounded in an accurate understanding of Algerian social and legal norms.

The venom and hatred aimed at her over her appearance and strength even though she's a biological female are absolutely repulsive and disgraceful. Many of those who claim to be against misogyny in women's sports are now engaging in rank misogyny against a woman for her appearance. I just wanted to clarify this piece of news, especially given that many of the comments I have seen on it demonstrate complete lack of knowledge about Algerian law and society. I believe that there are legitimate and strongly grounded concerns regarding trans women's participation in physical women's sports, but this woman is a biological female and has always been so. She is being baselessly dragged into a completely separate controversy.

There have been issues with her before and she has in the past shown elevates levels of testosterone. She is biologically female not trans but she is probably juiced up to the gills. And don't tell me that something like has never happened in the history of the Olympics

 

[Debater Slayer]

There have been issues with her before and she has in the past shown elevates levels of testosterone. She is biologically female not trans but she is probably juiced up to the gills. And don't tell me that something like has never happened in the history of the Olympics

I would rather leave the judgment about whether she's doing anything illicit to enhance her performance to the relevant authorities, since none of us can investigate or determine that from a distance. The point is that she is being attacked by some media outlets and public figures for supposedly being a trans woman when she is a biological female. She is being associated with a completely separate controversy due to the outrage-ridden climate of political discourse about trans-related issues.

 

[Kathryn]

h

There have been issues with her before and she has in the past shown elevates levels of testosterone. She is biologically female not trans but she is probably juiced up to the gills.

Correct.

https://peophttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/imane-khelif-algeria-boxer-who-had-gender-test-issue-wins-first-olympic-fight-when-opponent-quits/ar-BB1r1aVD

le.com/boxer-imane-khelif-faced-issues-over-gender-test-wins-fight-paris-olympics-8687531

 

[VoidCat]

h

Correct.

https://peophttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/imane-khelif-algeria-boxer-who-had-gender-test-issue-wins-first-olympic-fight-when-opponent-quits/ar-BB1r1aVD

le.com/boxer-imane-khelif-faced-issues-over-gender-test-wins-fight-paris-olympics-8687531

Your links are messed up...

Here let me help

Algerian Boxer Imane Khelif, Who Faced Issues Over Gender Test, Wins Olympic Fight After Opponent Drops Out

The Olympics boxing match between Algeria’s Imane Khelif and Italy’s Angela Carini came to an early and unexpected end, with Khelif taking the win after Carini exited the ring.

people.com

MSN

 

[Kathryn]

Your links are messed up...

Here let me help

Algerian Boxer Imane Khelif, Who Faced Issues Over Gender Test, Wins Olympic Fight After Opponent Drops Out

The Olympics boxing match between Algeria’s Imane Khelif and Italy’s Angela Carini came to an early and unexpected end, with Khelif taking the win after Carini exited the ring.

people.com

MSN

Thank you! I don't know what the problem was!

 

[VoidCat]

Thank you! I don't know what the problem was!

Sometimes the site loads weird when you try to copy and paste and then try to type something else. Ive had it happen a few times.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

I would rather leave the judgment about whether she's doing anything illicit to enhance her performance to the relevant authorities, since none of us can investigate or determine that from a distance. The point is that she is being attacked by some media outlets and public figures for supposedly being a trans woman when she is a biological female. She is being associated with a completely separate controversy due to the outrage-ridden climate of political discourse about trans-related issues.

It's slander. I mean it's slander on the trans community because they have nothing to do with this because she isn't one of them and she doesn't represent them in any way, shape or form. But the facts are she has in the past shown elevated levels of testosterone. Is she biologically female? All indications say yes. Is she a biological female who used performance enhancing drugs? That needs to be investigated, I don't know why they dragged the trans community into other than to cast them as villains.

 

[Kathryn]

It's slander. I mean it's slander on the trans community because they have nothing to do with this because she isn't one of them and she doesn't represent them in any way, shape or form. But the facts are she has in the past shown elevated levels of testosterone. Is she biologically female? All indications say yes. Is she a biological female who used performance enhancing drugs? That needs to be investigated, I don't know why they dragged the trans community into other than to cast them as villains.

I think "they" is Elon Musk. Other sources please.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There have been issues with her before and she has in the past shown elevates levels of testosterone. She is biologically female not trans but she is probably juiced up to the gills. And don't tell me that something like has never happened in the history of the Olympics

Based on what?
Last I knew the Olympics tests for such drugs. And elevated levels of T in a cis woman just sometimes happens. It doesn't mean she's juicing.
It looks to me you're the one doing the slandering.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

Based on what?
Last I knew the Olympics tests for such drugs. And elevated levels of T in a cis woman just sometimes happens. It doesn't mean she's juicing.
It looks to me you're the one doing the slandering.

I am only telling you what the AP is saying. There have been questions asked in the past.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am only telling you what the AP is saying. There have been questions asked in the past.

In my opinion, by people who can't accept the fact that even ciswomen come in a variety of shapes and sizes. People who have a problem with strong women. People who want women to know their place.

 

[Argentbear]

There have been issues with her before and she has in the past shown elevates levels of testosterone. She is biologically female not trans but she is probably juiced up to the gills. And don't tell me that something like has never happened in the history of the Olympics

Are you aware that the Olympics engage in rigorous drug testing for every athlete? and that does include testosterones

 

[Absolutely Frank]

Are you aware that the Olympics engage in rigorous drug testing for every athlete? and that does include testosterones

Really they do? Rigorous? Is that the story you bought because facts one again say different.

List of Olympic Games scandals and controversies - Wikipedia

Doping at the Olympic Games - Wikipedia

 

[Absolutely Frank]

In my opinion, by people who can't accept the fact that even ciswomen come in a variety of shapes and sizes. People who have a problem with strong women. People who want women to know their place.

I bet you believe Olympic officials are sainted examples of pure virtue and that the athletes and their sponsors would never ever think of cheating or enhancing their abilities even the IOC in cahoots with Paris threw out the homeless and migrant populations at gunpoint. Why are you so adamant in defending these people? Is it because they were being "inclusive"?

 

[icehorse]

There are already two threads about this, but I wanted to clarify in a separate thread what I find to be an absolutely disgraceful, misogynistic, and dehumanizing false narrative pushed by some media outlets and social-media ideologues who traffic in outrage.

Imane Khelif is an Algerian boxer whose win over her Italian counterpart, Angela Carini, has sparked controversy and objections, including from Giorgia Meloni, the Italian prime minister:

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-algerian-khelif-advances-after-italys-carini-abandons-fight-after-46-2024-08-01/

Imane Khelif is and has always been a biological female. She is not trans; she is a woman whose appearance is masculine by typical perceptions. She is a biological female competing in women's boxing.

Algerian law and society wouldn't allow Khelif to represent the country if she were trans, as both the state and society are not accepting of trans people. The outrage is not even grounded in an accurate understanding of Algerian social and legal norms.

I find the venom and hatred aimed at her over her appearance and strength, which have been attributed to her supposedly being trans, even though she's a biological female to be absolutely repulsive and disgraceful. Many of those who claim to be against misogyny in women's sports are now engaging in rank misogyny against a woman for her appearance. I just wanted to clarify this piece of news, especially given that many of the comments I have seen on it demonstrate complete lack of knowledge about Algerian law and society. I believe that there are legitimate and strongly grounded concerns regarding trans women's participation in physical women's sports, but this woman is a biological female and has always been so. She is being baselessly dragged into a completely separate controversy.

How about a little nuance here, fewer false dilemmas?

As I understand it Khelif is not trans, but has XY chromosomes and male levels of testosterone. If this much is accurate, then I guess we get back to "what is a woman", and should a person with these innate biological characteristics be competing against women with normal biologies?

 

[Debater Slayer]

How about a little nuance here, fewer false dilemmas?

This is a dichotomy: Some media outlets and public figures have claimed that Imane Khelif is a biological male, including J. K. Rowling in a starkly irresponsible and inaccurate post where she called her a "male" and claimed Khelif was being protected by a "misogynist sporting establishment." Either she is a biological male or she is not, and it is a fact that she is not. She was born and still is a female.

As I understand it Khelif is not trans, but has XY chromosomes and male levels of testosterone. If this much is accurate, then I guess we get back to "what is a woman", and should a person with these innate biological characteristics be competing against women with normal biologies?

There is currently no published verified information about her chromosome composition or testosterone levels. She is a biological female who passed all Olympics eligibility tests. She is now being maligned and misidentified as a biological male.

I find it remarkably inconsistent that some of the people claiming to stand for women's rights in sports are now questioning or outright denying this woman's womanhood just because her physical characteristics are not similar to most women. Either way, though, the question of whether women with DSD (differences in sex development) is one for Olympics committees to decide; the main point here is that Imane Khelif has been misgendered and defamed based on a factually incorrect claim that she is a biological male competing in women's boxing. Perhaps there could be legitimate reasons to restrict participation of women with DSD in certain sports (e.g., if it is established that participation of a subset of them could lead to heightened risk of injuries in a combat sport), but the issue would need to be studied to determine whether that was the case, and it is separate from the false claim that Imane Khelif is a biological male, anyway.

 

[Argentbear]

Really they do? Rigorous? Is that the story you bought because facts one again say different.

List of Olympic Games scandals and controversies - Wikipedia

Doping at the Olympic Games - Wikipedia

when drug usage is mentioned in these wikipedia articles they all involve athletes who failed drug teats administered by the Olympic committee. So thank you for proving my point.

 

[Argentbear]

How about a little nuance here, fewer false dilemmas?

As I understand it Khelif is not trans, but has XY chromosomes and male levels of testosterone. If this much is accurate, then I guess we get back to "what is a woman", and should a person with these innate biological characteristics be competing against women with normal biologies?

Wait....what exactly was her testosterone level from her Paris Olympic drug screening?

 

[Absolutely Frank]

when drug usage is mentioned in these wikipedia articles they all involve athletes who failed drug teats administered by the Olympic committee. So thank you for proving my point.

You made no point because you don't understand what is going on at all. Those were the people who got caught because they drew suspicion. Like Michael Phelps has said there are so many more that don't get caught at all. Also you mistakenly thought that IOC tests athletes. No no no no no no. The IOC doesn't test athletes at all. Testing is done by the various IF's like IBA or FIFA who share results with the various NADOs who then coordinate with the ITA who cooperate with the WADA who then give the OK to the IOC.