The Baseless and Inaccurate Attacks on an Algerian Female Boxer

[Samael_Khan]

citation?

Carini quit because of pain from Khelif's opening punches. Her face and nose were hurting. And she was tearful. This is during the fight so you can watch it on youtube or even carinis interviews A broken nose and sore face is part of the sport and shows that she couldn't block properly. So its just her being a crybaby really. Especially since other women have beaten Khelif fair and square.

 

[Samael_Khan]

The main debate wasn't about her being 'trans', but about the fact that 2 'female' boxers in the Olympics had legally accepted that they were deemed ineligible for the female category after undergoing sex screening test at the world championships. The assumption was that this related to DSD and thus incorrectly assigned female at birth despite being biologically male. This is not being 'trans' and was not simply invented 'to fuel US culture wars'

Neither boxer challenged the ban at the Court of Arbitration for Sport despite it being really easy to overturn with a basic cheek swab test, and as a result the decision became legally binding.

Nope. That might be the case now. But originally right wing pundits were saying that this is a case of woke politics allowing men to participate in womens sports and they justified this by saying that Khelif "looks like a man". They said she looked trans.

 

[Augustus]

Nope. That might be the case now. But originally right wing pundits were saying that this is a case of woke politics allowing men to participate in womens sports and they justified this by saying that Khelif "looks like a man". They said she looked trans.

You have things the wrong way round.

Before any right wing pundits had even heard of the case, both boxers had legally accepted the IBA test results and their lifetime bans from most boxing events outside of the Olympics. They had an automatic right to challenge at the CAS, but declined to do so despite it being the most easy, slam dunk win possible if they were both biologically female and the victims of an inept conspiracy to cheat them out of their glory.

The fact that "right wing pundits" misunderstood the evidence does not mean they invented the issue any more than"right wing pundits" getting facts wrong about Covid meant they invented the pandemic.

 

[Samael_Khan]

You have things the wrong way round.

Before any right wing pundits had even heard of the case, both boxers had legally accepted the IBA test results and their lifetime bans from most boxing events outside of the Olympics. They had an automatic right to challenge at the CAS, but declined to do so despite it being the most easy, slam dunk win possible if they were both biologically female and the victims of an inept conspiracy to cheat them out of their glory.

The fact that "right wing pundits" misunderstood the evidence does not mean they invented the issue any more than"right wing pundits" getting facts wrong about Covid meant they invented the pandemic.

When the right wing was complaining about this issue they didnt even know about the IBA ban. They just said she looks like a man, Carini said she punched like a man, and they ran with the woke trans agenda nonsense.

It became a big thing to suit their agenda. So now we have people thinking its a trans and woke issue, which is different from what the actual issue is.

 

[Augustus]

When the right wing was complaining about this issue they didnt even know about the IBA ban. They just said she looks like a man, Carini said she punched like a man, and they ran with the woke trans agenda nonsense.

It became a big thing to suit their agenda. So now we have people thinking its a trans and woke issue, which is different from what the actual issue is.

The best thing to do with bad, ideological punditry is ignore it and look at more useful information such as the scientific and ethical discussions that have been ongoing for years with this issue.

Thinking the entire issue was caused by her "looking like a man" is to be as poorly informed as the pundits. Of course people involved in the sport knew about the ban and that is why they complained about it. The mainstream media debate grew from this.

The serious issue is biological males in female sports and the safety and competitiveness issues that result from this. That is a legitimate issue to be concerned about, especially in combat sports where there is a non-trivial chance of life-changing injuries.

Carini understood very well that she had legally accepted the results of the IBA tests and therefore was almost certainly a male with 5ARD. Why pretend she was unaware of what happened in her own sport?

The science on the impact of this on performance is very well documented and almost certainly she can punch significantly harder than any biological female boxer in her weight class (pretty sure I posted the scientific paper earlier in the thread on punching power). Dismissing this as weak crybabyism based on prejudice is to favour ideology and ignorance over science, just like the "right wing pundits" you complain about.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Some recent updates:

The president of the International Boxing Association has called for an apology from IOC boss Thomas Bach on behalf of the "beaten and abused" opponents of Imane Khelif, after leaked documents published in the French press alleged the Algerian gold medallist is a "biological man".

A leaked medical report, published in French magazine Le Correspondant, states Khelif has a condition known as 5-alpha reductase deficiency that affects sexual development.

The medical report from 2023 allegedly showed Khelif neither had ovaries or a uterus, had internal testicles and an XY chromosome make-up.

The report was a collaboration between French and Algerian experts in 2023 working at the Kremlin-Bicetre hospital in Paris, according to German newspaper BiLD.

Khelif a 'biological man', leaked report states

'Is she still suing JK Rowling?'

www.nine.com.au

Imane Khelif, the gold medal-winning boxer at the centre of the Olympic gender controversy at Paris 2024, is taking legal action over reports in France that leaked medical documents claim she has male XY chromosomes.
The Algerian boxer, who became the centre of an enormous row when her opponent, Italy’s Angela Carini, refused to fight her after 46 seconds of their bout, is understood to be taking action following claims made online and on social media platforms that reference “unverified documents whose origin cannot be confirmed”, the International Olympics Committee have claimed.

https://archive.md/N7AAI

Let's see what happens and if this lawsuit ever materialises, and if so on what grounds is it being based.

It is unclear so far whether the report is genuine, but if it is, I think there should be a thorough review of current rules because I don't think it would be fair or safe that biological males could compete against biological females in boxing. I believe that physical advantages from DSD could warrant such a review either way, but a medical report stating that Khelif is biologically male should be grounds for an even stronger case for rule review if it is confirmed to be authentic and correct.

 

[Augustus]

It is unclear so far whether the report is genuine, but if it is, I think there should be a thorough review of current rules because I don't think it would be fair or safe that biological males could compete against biological females in boxing. I believe that physical advantages from DSD could warrant such a review either way, but a medical report stating that Khelif is biologically male should be grounds for an even stronger case for rule review if it is confirmed to be authentic and correct.

I agree there is a possibility the report is not genuine, and I’m not putting much stock in it as the probability has long been that the IBA tests were indeed correct rather than a hare brained conspiracy.

If she proves otherwise in a court of law I’ll accept my error, but I won’t be holding my breath as she could have done that a couple of years ago but chose not to.

There should be a review of the IOC rules anyway as at present it is completely irrelevant if she is biologically male with a DSD.

It shouldn’t be about the individuals but the system, and the idea that a biological male could be ineligible for women’s Olympic swimming or cycling but would be eligible for boxing seems absurd to me.

 

[Argentbear]

Some recent updates:

The president of the International Boxing Association has called for an apology from IOC boss Thomas Bach on behalf of the "beaten and abused" opponents of Imane Khelif, after leaked documents published in the French press alleged the Algerian gold medallist is a "biological man".

A leaked medical report, published in French magazine Le Correspondant, states Khelif has a condition known as 5-alpha reductase deficiency that affects sexual development.

The medical report from 2023 allegedly showed Khelif neither had ovaries or a uterus, had internal testicles and an XY chromosome make-up.

The report was a collaboration between French and Algerian experts in 2023 working at the Kremlin-Bicetre hospital in Paris, according to German newspaper BiLD.

Khelif a 'biological man', leaked report states

'Is she still suing JK Rowling?'

www.nine.com.au

Imane Khelif, the gold medal-winning boxer at the centre of the Olympic gender controversy at Paris 2024, is taking legal action over reports in France that leaked medical documents claim she has male XY chromosomes.
The Algerian boxer, who became the centre of an enormous row when her opponent, Italy’s Angela Carini, refused to fight her after 46 seconds of their bout, is understood to be taking action following claims made online and on social media platforms that reference “unverified documents whose origin cannot be confirmed”, the International Olympics Committee have claimed.

https://archive.md/N7AAI

Let's see what happens and if this lawsuit ever materialises, and if so on what grounds is it being based.

The lawsuit lists cyber harassment, public insult and public incitement to discrimination

 

[Argentbear]

Carini quit because of pain from Khelif's opening punches. Her face and nose were hurting. And she was tearful. This is during the fight so you can watch it on youtube or even carinis interviews A broken nose and sore face is part of the sport and shows that she couldn't block properly. So its just her being a crybaby really. Especially since other women have beaten Khelif fair and square.

I was asking about the claim that Carini accused the Algerian woman of being trans

 

[Augustus]

The lawsuit lists cyber harassment, public insult and public incitement to discrimination

The old one? Yes, somewhat telling along with the reluctance to challenge the initial IBA sanction (and the fact her own coach confirmed her test results were anomalous).

I expect any lawsuit about the new leaked results to similarly avoid addressing the elephant in the room.

 

[Argentbear]

The old one? Yes, somewhat telling along with the reluctance to challenge the initial IBA sanction (and the fact her own coach confirmed her test results were anomalous).

I expect any lawsuit about the new leaked results to similarly avoid addressing the elephant in the room.

If it was an actual leak she might seek a lawsuit after the criminal proceedings happen. If is is a fake then who ever did it will probably be added onto her original lawsuit