The Baseless and Inaccurate Attacks on an Algerian Female Boxer

[Shadow Wolf]

I bet you believe Olympic officials are sainted examples of pure virtue and that the athletes and their sponsors would never ever think of cheating or enhancing their abilities even the IOC in cahoots with Paris threw out the homeless and migrant populations at gunpoint. Why are you so adamant in defending these people? Is it because they were being "inclusive"?

I don't think they are saints, but clearly this whole thing is a stinky heap of misogyny that's been ignited because this woman falls outside the norms.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I find it remarkably inconsistent that some of the people claiming to stand for women's rights in sports are now questioning or outright denying this woman's womanhood just because her physical characteristics are not similar to most women.

That exactly needs repeated amd pointed out. This is another example of hyper-vigilance over transwomen makes victims of ciswomen, people who think they are so certain being wrong and why I have taken to saying that transphobia against transwomen is really just misogyny that ends up targeting ciswomen who fall outside the norms.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

I don't think they are saints, but clearly this whole thing is a stinky heap of misogyny that's been ignited because this woman falls outside the norms.

We don't know. The right wingers were wrong by accusing her of being trans. We do know that. But what we know know is if she juiced or not but the whole thing will probably be dropped by the agencies involved because the anti-trans people poisoned the well against her. If the anti-trans people didn't open their big dumb mouths things would have been done properly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We don't know. The right wingers were wrong by accusing her of being trans. We do know that. But what we know know is if she juiced or not but the whole thing will probably be dropped by the agencies involved because the anti-trans people poisoned the well against her. If the anti-trans people didn't open their big dumb mouths things would have been done properly.

She's not juiced. The Olympics tests for that. Saying she is is just as bad as saying she's trans. She's a physically strong woman who falls outside the norm and clearly people have a problem with that.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

She's not juiced. The Olympics tests for that. Saying she is is just as bad as saying she's trans. She's a physically strong woman who falls outside the norm and clearly people have a problem with that.

How do you know? She drew red flags in the past and her IF never tested her this year because the IOC cut all relations with the IBA. Every Olympics has these controversies, what makes you think this is some sort of exception? It needs to be investigated. Her opponents is a physically strong woman too or did that fact get lost in the performative emotionalist outrage?

 

[Absolutely Frank]

The Olympics tests for that.

The IOC doesn't conduct the tests. The IF's conduct the test under in coordination with the NADA's under the auspices of the WADA's who share data with ITA who manage the results for the IOC. Where did you people get the idea that the IOC tests the athletes? Currently boxing has no IF that works with the IOC

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How do you know? She drew red flags in the past and her IF never tested her this year because the IOC cut all relations with the IBA. Every Olympics has these controversies, what makes you think this is some sort of exception? It needs to be investigated. Her opponents is a physically strong woman too or did that fact get lost in the performative emotionalist outrage?

She got whomped by a much stronger or woman. Or she believed the trans nomsemse and just quit.
The Olypics tests athletes for drugs like steriods. You're doing just as much damage and harm as those saying she's trans.

How does the Olympics test for doping and is it good enough?

Measures are in place to prevent athletes from using performance-enhancing drugs at the Olympic Games, but concerns linger over the use of CRISPR to edit genes and even the inhalation of carbon monoxide

www.newscientist.com

 

[Estro Felino]

The IOC doesn't conduct the tests. The IF's conduct the test under in coordination with the NADA's under the auspices of the WADA's who share data with ITA who manage the results for the IOC. Where did you people get the idea that the IOC tests the athletes? Currently boxing has no IF that works with the IOC

I think that fairness is based upon equal terms. A perfectly equal condition.
If a person who has the hormone levels of a biological woman, has to fight with an intersexual person who has completely different hormone levels, I believe the contest is unfair.
Nobody has ever questioned the Algerian lady's womanhood.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

She got whomped by a much stronger or woman. Or she believed the trans nomsemse and just quit.
The Olypics tests athletes for drugs like steriods. You're doing just as much damage and harm as those saying she's trans.

How does the Olympics test for doping and is it good enough?

Measures are in place to prevent athletes from using performance-enhancing drugs at the Olympic Games, but concerns linger over the use of CRISPR to edit genes and even the inhalation of carbon monoxide

www.newscientist.com

Did you read that? They are saying exactly what I said.
"The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) develops and coordinates anti-doping rules and policies across all sports and countries. For equestrian disciplines, WADA collaborates with the governing body for such sports, the Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI)."

The IF's not the IOC do the testing. And WADA isn't the most transparent organization in the world.

Justice Department opens a criminal probe of the Chinese Olympic doping scandal

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Did you read that? They are saying exactly what I said.
"The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) develops and coordinates anti-doping rules and policies across all sports and countries. For equestrian disciplines, WADA collaborates with the governing body for such sports, the Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI)."

The IF's not the IOC do the testing. And WADA isn't the most transparent organization in the world.

Justice Department opens a criminal probe of the Chinese Olympic doping scandal

Yeah, but it's an offensive stretch to claim the woman is juiced just because she beat the **** out of another woman. She's been questioned before? Sounds like she's got some jealous haters who cannot stand the idea of a such a strong woman.

 

[Augustus]

Imane Khelif is and has always been a biological female. She is not trans; she is a woman whose appearance is masculine by typical perceptions. She is a biological female competing in women's boxing.

AFAIK She is someone who has a DSD condition that gives her something close to a male puberty type advantage.

It’s not that she simply looks masculine or has higher than normal testosterone for a woman.

In a sport like boxing you can’t just aim to be maximally inclusive regarding things like this.

The average male punches at 167% of the average female, and some people with DSD are more in the male range, not the female. It genuinely can be a matter of life and death. This is why boxing has so many weight classes as mismatches in power are dangerous.

This is not simply US culture wars spilling over it is the view of many scientists who have looked at the evidence.

This is why governing bodies in combat and collision sports are much stricter than the IOC on this because they will get sued as they understand the science behind injuries.

In many sports it’s simply a question of inclusion v fairness with regard to DSD, in others it will reduce the number of deaths or life changing injuries.

Just because some bigots jump on the bandwagon, doesn’t mean the objection is simply irrational bigotry.

She is banned from competing in most other boxing events for scientific reasons that have nothing to do with right wing politics.

 

[Debater Slayer]

AFAIK She is someone who has a DSD condition that gives her something close to a male puberty type advantage.

It’s not that she simply looks masculine or has higher than normal testosterone for a woman.

In a sport like boxing you can’t just aim to be maximally inclusive regarding things like this.

The average male punches at 167% of the average female, and some people with DSD are more in the male range, not the female. It genuinely can be a matter of life and death. This is why boxing has so many weight classes as mismatches in power are dangerous.

This is not simply US culture wars spilling over it is the view of many scientists who have looked at the evidence.

This is why governing bodies in combat and collision sports are much stricter than the IOC on this because they will get sued as they understand the science behind injuries.

In many sports it’s simply a question of inclusion v fairness with regard to DSD, in others it will reduce the number of deaths or life changing injuries.

Just because some bigots jump on the bandwagon, doesn’t mean the objection is simply irrational bigotry.

She is banned from competing in most other boxing events for scientific reasons that have nothing to do with right wing politics.

I don't disagree with any of this; I just think the discussion about the competition of women with DSD against other women in physical sports certainly doesn't need the vile dehumanization and the misidentification of the former as "biological males" or "males who are cheating." Many media outlets and public figures, including ones with a lot of reach such as Elon Musk and J. K. Rowling, have repeated the factually incorrect claim that Imane Khelif is a male. I find this absolutely reprehensible, especially given that it can contribute and has already contributed to inspiring a barrage of venomous attacks on her.

What could be a useful and necessary discussion has largely turned into yet another political football based on a false assumption (i.e., that Imane Khelif is a biological male), so now much of the discourse around the match against Angela Carini is focused on said assumption instead of DSD and its possible effects on athletic performance. I touched on this in an earlier post:

Perhaps there could be legitimate reasons to restrict participation of women with DSD in certain sports (e.g., if it is established that participation of a subset of them could lead to heightened risk of injuries in a combat sport), but the issue would need to be studied to determine whether that was the case, and it is separate from the false claim that Imane Khelif is a biological male, anyway.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But what we know know is if she juiced or not but the whole thing will probably be dropped by the agencies involved because the anti-trans people poisoned the well against her.

Could you please edit or rephrase this?

 

[wellwisher]

It's slander. I mean it's slander on the trans community because they have nothing to do with this because she isn't one of them and she doesn't represent them in any way, shape or form. But the facts are she has in the past shown elevated levels of testosterone. Is she biologically female? All indications say yes. Is she a biological female who used performance enhancing drugs? That needs to be investigated, I don't know why they dragged the trans community into other than to cast them as villains.

It has to do with Harris and Biden just getting a bill passed that allows trans *staff edit* to use female facilities, thereby taking away their privacy and legally invading their sports. This is being kept hush since it will cause them to lose female votes.

Democracy is about the will of the majority and not a DNC cabal lording over everyone to entitle a few. We need to take a vote and let the majority decide. The DNC is not about a Democratic process. Maybe a male boxer can challenge Imane Khelif, so the shoe can be put on the other foot.

 

[Wu Wei]

AFAIK She is someone who has a DSD condition that gives her something close to a male puberty type advantage.

It’s not that she simply looks masculine or has higher than normal testosterone for a woman.

In a sport like boxing you can’t just aim to be maximally inclusive regarding things like this.

The average male punches at 167% of the average female, and some people with DSD are more in the male range, not the female. It genuinely can be a matter of life and death. This is why boxing has so many weight classes as mismatches in power are dangerous.

This is not simply US culture wars spilling over it is the view of many scientists who have looked at the evidence.

This is why governing bodies in combat and collision sports are much stricter than the IOC on this because they will get sued as they understand the science behind injuries.

In many sports it’s simply a question of inclusion v fairness with regard to DSD, in others it will reduce the number of deaths or life changing injuries.

Just because some bigots jump on the bandwagon, doesn’t mean the objection is simply irrational bigotry.

She is banned from competing in most other boxing events for scientific reasons that have nothing to do with right wing politics.

She has Swyer Syndrome

 

[Yerda]

AFAIK She is someone who has a DSD condition that gives her something close to a male puberty type advantage.

It’s not that she simply looks masculine or has higher than normal testosterone for a woman.

In a sport like boxing you can’t just aim to be maximally inclusive regarding things like this.

The average male punches at 167% of the average female, and some people with DSD are more in the male range, not the female. It genuinely can be a matter of life and death. This is why boxing has so many weight classes as mismatches in power are dangerous.

This is not simply US culture wars spilling over it is the view of many scientists who have looked at the evidence.

This is why governing bodies in combat and collision sports are much stricter than the IOC on this because they will get sued as they understand the science behind injuries.

In many sports it’s simply a question of inclusion v fairness with regard to DSD, in others it will reduce the number of deaths or life changing injuries.

Just because some bigots jump on the bandwagon, doesn’t mean the objection is simply irrational bigotry.

She is banned from competing in most other boxing events for scientific reasons that have nothing to do with right wing politics.

Does the fact that she has lost 9 figts previously not undermine the idea that this is a "male range" fighter?

Edit: Her record is not great. Fought 51, lost 9. That's nowhere near the top women boxing records.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

She has Swyer Syndrome

How do you know that?

 

[Argentbear]

You made no point because you don't understand what is going on at all. Those were the people who got caught because they drew suspicion. Like Michael Phelps has said there are so many more that don't get caught at all. Also you mistakenly thought that IOC tests athletes. No no no no no no. The IOC doesn't test athletes at all. Testing is done by the various IF's like IBA or FIFA who share results with the various NADOs who then coordinate with the ITA who cooperate with the WADA who then give the OK to the IOC.

Drug testing at the Olympics is conducted by the International Testing Agency which was founded by and is a part of the International Olympic Committee (IOC)

 

[Argentbear]

It has to do with Harris and Biden just getting a bill passed that allows trans she-he's to use female facilities, thereby taking away their privacy and legally invading their sports. This is being kept hush since it will cause them to lose female votes.

name the law

 

[Wu Wei]

How do you know that?

it is what they are cliaming. She gre up in a society that is highly anti-transexuals. And after doing a bit of emotion free research that is what it is. Originally I was rather outraged by the whole thing, but decided to look into it a bit more. it is what it is, still gives her a rather large advantage, but I do not believe she was ever a he.... there is a Taiwanese boxer in the women's olympic boxing who I do believe is transexual and I do have an issue with woman, who use to be men, in woman's sporting competitions, it gives them a major advantage.... however in this case, I am fairly certain it is Swyer Syndrome... take it for what it is worth, but that is what it seems to be