Skwim
Veteran Member
Matthew 5:48
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
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The battle of evolution vs creationism
- Thread starter bobhikes
- Start date
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Heavenly father isnt god. It is more or less what you seek or plan to achieve with your life.
The trinity for instance is broken down into the son, the father, and the Holy Spirit. You cant have one without the other. Also the bible progresses from start to finish and you would have to read the entire thing to understand.
No, it doesn't. God is perfect, but creation is not. You should read the works of theistic evolutionists like Teilhard.
outhouse
Atheistically
Sure it does.
Creation mythology, in any form, makes you cherry pick and then personally interpret scripture to force fit it into biology.
It doesn't fit in at all without perversion of text.
On another note, your link talked about Noah. To date, Noah ahs no Historicity outside mythology.
outhouse
Atheistically
Sure it does.
Ancient men who wrote the books, had zero understanding of biology.
Any attempt to force fit it into biology goes against the mythology as written.
You do know that the early Christians, including Church Fathers like St. Augustine, didn't interpret Genesis in a literal fashion, right? Do you know better on how to interpret the Bible than they did? Biblical literalism is a comparatively modern phenomenon and a reaction against modernism.
Have a look: http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/original-sin-and-evolution-how-to-read-genesis-1-3/
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False. You know little to nothing about the bible.
So what? Would you like to claim that god's creation is perfect or god is perfect?
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
What do you mean specifically about "knowledge"? Do you mean knowledge of what it says or "wisdom" to know what you want it to "mean"? That is an important distinction you need to make.
But on the topic at hand there is a big disparity between what the bible says happened and what actually happened. You can bend and stretch it to a methaphor all you want but it doesn't actually make it a prediction or even true. It simply means that you can turn a "story" into a metaphor and find ways to bend the meaning to fit later found knowledge.
I know its not directed at me but I wouldn't claim anything in existence is "perfect". Perfect is a meaningless word to begin with. One can only have "perfection" with pre-created criteria that it must pass. For example a fish could be considered "Perfect" at what it does (not really but go with it for a second) but it would be terrible at jogging.
So what criteria are you holding god to when someone claims perfection of god?
EDIT: As a challenge what would an imperfect god be like?
You need to understand a subject before you try debating it without spewing false dogma.
If god is perfect, then god would create something that is imperfect.
Nothing can be considered perfect as far as we understand it, in regards to science or biology. Perfection is something we strive for, but are not, for the most part capable of achieving. That doesn't mean anyone or anything isn't capable of achieving perfection.
outhouse
Atheistically
I understand the different views. I already told you I understand YEC are a minority.
But polls show those who discount evolution altogether due to religious beliefs is pitiful.
outhouse
Atheistically
I would challenge you to any sort of bible knowledge, any day or time.
Im guessing you don't know the first thing about the different cultures that collected and compiled the early books.
Here's a few questions
#1 Did Israelites evolve from Canaanites?
#2 Did Israelites worship the Canaanite gods?
#3 Does Moses, Noah, Abraham, have any historicity at all?
I don't think your god exist. Scientifically he doesn't exist.
Creation so far is mythology outlawed from our children in most public schools, while evolution is taught WORLD WIDE as higher education.
outhouse
Atheistically
outhouse
Atheistically
Love ya brother but "to me" its still another christian perversion of Judaism
No Jew would stand for this.
Those people aren't Catholics, though. Most Catholics in America, and in the West in general, accept evolutionary theory. So you can't blame us for that. That's mostly a Protestant problem.
I could care less about Israelites. Other civilizations existed long before they did.
You missed the point of our debate a long time ago and no longer see it as being no worth discussing.
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Well, we're obviously not going to agree on that. We view Catholicism to be the fulfillment of the Israelite religion.
You mean Jews who reject Christ.
outhouse
Atheistically
It is a problem within the whole USA.
I don't care who is a fault.
Im not singling out any other group other then creationist in general.
outhouse
Atheistically
The only point here is that certain theist create a debate about the credibility of evolution, when there really is no debate.
End of story.
Anyone trying to inject mythology into science, is doing so with nothing more then wishful thinking.
Monk Of Reason
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I agree. However you have dodged my question. Do you mean understanding what the bible says or what you think it means?
Why? Even in the bible does it not say that good tree begat good fruit? Why would something perfect begat something imperfect? I more than agree that we are imperfect but I don't understand your logic when saying "god is perfect ergo his creation is imperfect".
Sure we can. If we decide that I need a ruler and it needs to be exactly 12 inches. Then if I get it to exactly 12 inches it is "perfect" for what I need based on prior criteria. However without thise previous criteria the world perfection is simply a pretty world said to invoke connotations and emotions rather than actual meaning.
It's a product of crappy science education and the power of fundamentalist Christians as a socio-political force. America being what it is, we have a much higher amount of fundamentalist Protestants than any other Western nation. In states where the population of Catholics is higher, they tend to be more progressive (and also tend to be the ones legalizing gay marriage, interestingly).