The battle of evolution vs creationism

[Skwim]

Heavenly father isn’t god. It is more or less what you seek or plan to achieve with your life.

You can define "heavenly father" however you want, but I'm not buying it. Because . . . . .

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Proper noun

Heavenly Father

A formal name for the Jewish or Christian God.  
1611 — King James Version of the Bible, Matthew 6:14

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
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Heavenly Father

Definition:
God, the Eternal Father, the Father of Jesus Christ and of the spirits of all human kind.
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Moses was the first man to know the Heavenly Father’s or Elohim’s (God’s) name some 2,513 years after Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden.
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In the famous "Disciples Prayer," Yeshua instructed his followers to call God "our Heavenly Father."
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Heavenly Father (ˈhɛvənlɪ ˈfɑːð&#601
Definitions
noun

(religion) a term used to address or refer to God
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Heavenly Father

A formal name for the Jewish or Christian God.

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Revealing God as our heavenly Father was one of the most important missions in the life of Jesus.

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God is our heavenly father and our creator who lives in heaven

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When we get to know God as our Heavenly Father.

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English - Definition of heavenly father

God, Almighty God
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[Slapstick]

You can define "heavenly father" however you want, but I'm not buying it. Because . . . . .

Thanks for sharing the straw man!

These are the dumb downed versions for those who don’t understand Catholicism.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Thanks for sharing the straw man!

These are the dumb downed versions for those who don’t understand Catholicism.

Really?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Really?

Yeah, I'm not even going to touch that one. Lol. Don't know what he's talking about. The Heavenly Father is God the Father.

 

[Slapstick]

Really?

Yeah really.

 

[Slapstick]

Yeah, I'm not even going to touch that one. Lol. Don't know what he's talking about. The Heavenly Father is God the Father.

God isn't perfect. Explain why god is then explain why you think god is the heavenly father without using the trinity. If you can't then explain the trinity in detail so you and everyone else understands it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

God isn't perfect. Explain why god is then explain why you think god is the heavenly father without using the trinity. If you can't then explain the trinity in detail so you and everyone else understands it.

I don't need to explain my beliefs to you. My beliefs are just regular Trinitarian beliefs and so wouldn't be anything you or anyone else hasn't heard before. You should explain how you reached the conclusion that the Heavenly Father isn't God and how God isn't perfect. That's a new one.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Yeah really.

Huh. Well I had hoped you were not serious. But as you are how do you explain other Catholics, non-catholic christians, and secular or non-partisan scholars finding a different opinion than your self. In fact after doing a quick search I cannot find anyone who holds the same opinion. So apparently the whole internet is ignorant of this "true catholic" viewpoint. Can you elaborate and explain why your viewpoint is correct in the face of overwhelming evidence?

 

[Slapstick]

Huh. Well I had hoped you were not serious. But as you are how do you explain other Catholics, non-catholic christians, and secular or non-partisan scholars finding a different opinion than your self. In fact after doing a quick search I cannot find anyone who holds the same opinion. So apparently the whole internet is ignorant of this "true catholic" viewpoint. Can you elaborate and explain why your viewpoint is correct in the face of overwhelming evidence?

I already did a few posts back, but since you are the bible scholar and know more about god and the bible than me I will leave it up to you to decide.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I already did a few posts back, but since you are the bible scholar and know more about god and the bible than me I will leave it up to you to decide.

I don't require credientials nor do I believe in appeal to authority. So even if you are a bible scholar and I am not you still have to make your case and answer my own (or anyone elses).

I went back all the way to page 10 and I have not seen your reasoning posted yet. So if I could a link to it or at least tell me what page its on that would be great.

And something you did say a few pages back. I have read the whole bible cover to cover. Do you still think that I don't understand it?

 

[LuisDantas]

Really, a Heavenly Father that isn't a God? I'm all for questioning orthodoxy, but unless you mean someone who works in an airplane or is an astronaut of some kind, that is truly pushing it.

 

[McBell]

Heavenly father isn’t god. It is more or less what you seek or plan to achieve with your life.

The trinity for instance is broken down into the son, the father, and the Holy Spirit. You can’t have one without the other. Also the bible progresses from start to finish and you would have to read the entire thing to understand.

:biglaugh:

 

[McBell]

False. You know little to nothing about the bible.

Irony alert

 

[McBell]

You need to understand a subject before you try debating it without spewing false dogma.

 

[Windwalker]

No, it doesn't. God is perfect, but creation is not.

I think people tend to conflate God and nature in terms of perfection in incorrect ways. God being perfect does not have to do with moving parts, so to speak. The perfection of God is simply freedom from conditions. There are no dependencies, no cause and effect relationships. It is just "being" itself liberated from the cycles of life and death. Nature on the other hand is conditional. It's part of a dynamic system of life and death, which as a whole is "perfect" in that it functions through self-correction. It is 'designed' that way, so to speak. It self-creates in forms through that desire to be united with its Source, through evolution as opposed to a self-dissolution.

You should read the works of theistic evolutionists like Teilhard.

In case you didn't gather, what I said above touches on what Teilhard de Chardin was talking about. I would recommend another author for you since this resonates with you. He is a philosopher who takes the works of many such evolutionary theorists and ties them into a 'theory of everything' which looks at the movements of world religions, the sciences, art, culture, society, philosophy, myth, psychology, etc. He also draws from Teilhard de Chardin in his works. His name is Ken Wilber, and I'd recommend for you if you are interested an earlier work of his called Up From Eden. If you like Teilhard de Chardin, you should get even more from him.

 

[outhouse]

Yeah, I'm not even going to touch that one. Lol. Don't know what he's talking about. The Heavenly Father is God the Father.

Who was originally the Canaanite deity El

El later became compiled with the Canaanite Yahweh, who took on Els wife Asherah in the Israelite culture.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The variation in life - the diversity in life - concerns beliefs and religion.... suppose you believe eating meat is evil, does this not change your physical body - generation after generation - if your diet is altered? Suppose you believe in monogamy - mating beliefs of coarse change the nature of future generations. suppose you believe in having love and serving your neighbor - beliefs control our interactions with our environment, which in turn create the variations in life.

What does this have to do with evolutionary biology?

Rocks do not hold beliefs, and so their variations are predictable - their properties come from atomic interaction potentials, they are eroded by wind and water etc. etc.

Geology and biology are not the same thing.

There's more to the variations in life than atomic interaction potentials and environmental conditions though... Our differences are primarily a function of our beliefs, rather than our material makeup.

Again, evolution is not a theory that explains philosophy and religion.

So please stop avoiding the question and explain to me why you are avoiding your earlier blunder about the Evolution Theory. Religion, god and belief have no place in biological evolution so why are you bringing them up?

Theology and biology are not equivalent.

 

[Skwim]

Thanks for sharing the straw man!

Straw man?

You're the one who claimed that

"Heavenly father isn’t god. It is more or less what you seek or plan to achieve with your life."
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So according to you the Heavenly Father isn't god or even a part of the Holy Trinity, but. . .

Heavenly Father: proper noun

1) Something mortals plan to accomplish in their life.
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How odd. How very odd, Slapstick.

These are the dumb downed versions for those who don’t understand Catholicism.

Ah ha! So to understand "heavenly father" as it's used in the many different Christian denominations it's first necessary to understand the Catholic meaning of the term. You do recognize how asinine this is, don't you.

In any case here are some of the the things Catholic sources have said about the term, none of which refer to "Heavenly Father" as something mortals plan to accomplish in their life.

From: catholicsoncall.org

"And so we call out to God, 'Our Father in heaven.' "
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God = Father in heaven [Heavenly Father]
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The Catechism teaches: “Faith in God the Father Almighty can be put to the test by the experience of evil and suffering. We see this in the example of Job.[which then goes on to relate the story of Job]
The test of Job is an example of a test among the larger test that is this present life. These tests are opportunities for us to choose whom we will serve. They demonstrate whether we truly love God, or whether we only have a ‘friendship of utility’ with God.
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The last sentence treats "God" as synonymous with "the Father Almighty" in the first sentence.

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Theologically, a father is the principal one who produces of his own substance another person like himself. There is, consequently, a Father within the Trinity, who begets God the Son. But the triune God is himself spoken of as Father,
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"But the triune God is himself spoken of as Father."
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The revelation of prayer in the Old Testament spans the long centuries between the fall of our first parents and the redemption of the human race by the Son of God, who told His heavenly Father, “I have come to do your will, O God” (Heb 10:7).
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Jesus identifies "His heavenly Father" as God

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:slap:

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think people tend to conflate God and nature in terms of perfection in incorrect ways. God being perfect does not have to do with moving parts, so to speak. The perfection of God is simply freedom from conditions. There are no dependencies, no cause and effect relationships. It is just "being" itself liberated from the cycles of life and death. Nature on the other hand is conditional. It's part of a dynamic system of life and death, which as a whole is "perfect" in that it functions through self-correction. It is 'designed' that way, so to speak. It self-creates in forms through that desire to be united with its Source, through evolution as opposed to a self-dissolution.


In case you didn't gather, what I said above touches on what Teilhard de Chardin was talking about. I would recommend another author for you since this resonates with you. He is a philosopher who takes the works of many such evolutionary theorists and ties them into a 'theory of everything' which looks at the movements of world religions, the sciences, art, culture, society, philosophy, myth, psychology, etc. He also draws from Teilhard de Chardin in his works. His name is Ken Wilber, and I'd recommend for you if you are interested an earlier work of his called Up From Eden. If you like Teilhard de Chardin, you should get even more from him.

Thank you. Nice post. I think I've heard of Wilber before.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Who was originally the Canaanite deity El

El later became compiled with the Canaanite Yahweh, who took on Els wife Asherah in the Israelite culture.

Wow, tell me something else that I've never heard before. I'm aware of the scholarly history of it.